i heard there might be a new kenwood rig out soon prob unv at dayton

anyone have any skuttlebut on it or any links ?

tnx

It's going to be a model that has 'D-Star' capability, like some of the
Icoms do.


"ml" wrote in message
...
i heard there might be a new kenwood rig out soon prob unv at dayton

anyone have any skuttlebut on it or any links ?

tnx

Whatever happenet to a simple to operate 100watt HF rig that transmits and
recieves??... something in the way of an inexpensive, baseline, HAM band
*only* rig... maybe along the lines of the re-production of the TS-130S.

-n6ojn

"Hamguy" wrote in message
...
It's going to be a model that has 'D-Star' capability, like some of the
Icoms do.


"ml" wrote in message
...
i heard there might be a new kenwood rig out soon prob unv at dayton

anyone have any skuttlebut on it or any links ?

tnx

"rocky" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Noon-Air" wrote:

Whatever happenet to a simple to operate 100watt HF rig that transmits
and
recieves??... something in the way of an inexpensive, baseline, HAM band
*only* rig... maybe along the lines of the re-production of the TS-130S.

-n6ojn


too many want,,,,no demand they be able to hook up their computer. The
days of simple are far in the past.

I was thinking more along the lines of inexpensive, entry level equipment...
the ranks of licensed operators is rapidly dwindling as all of us old farts
are dying off. The only time that there seems to be any push to increase
ranks is after a disaster, when the infrastructure is wiped out and all that
is left are the HAM radio operators. I believe that a lot of prospective
HAMs are put off because of 2 things....
1) The expen$e of buying new equipment, antennas, towers, etc. Most
prospects don't know that you gan get a workable station on the air for just
a couple of hundred dollars. All they *see* are the tower systems, and high
dollar radios where the HAM has been licensed for 20+ years and has
built/accumulated a top drawer station over the years.
2) The equipment is getting to where you have to be an EE just to figure out
what everything does. Newbies need to have a simple to operate station so
they can learn the basics, then after they get a handle on it, they can
start building a station with some of the latest and greatest, state of the
art, toys.
I don't know about you, but my first station was nothing more than a used
TS-520S, and a wire antenna(40/15M dipole), a borrowed MFJ antenna tuner,
and a straight key(no voice privileges for novices then)...That was all I
could afford at the time, and that almost broke the bank. I was a little
overwhelmed with the 520 when I first got it and it took me a while to
really feel comfortable with the rig. Imagine the new HAM today with
something like a TS-2000.....if they can afford it. Even tho I have been an
active HAM since 1984, I have had my TS-480HX since July, and I *still*
don't know and haven't figured out all it will do...and thats running it
mobile!! No tellin what it would do in the shack. Would I recommend the 480
for a newbie?? not hardly... but for an experienced HAM, its a great rig
that will do everything you ever dreamed of.
There still needs to be an inexpensive, easy to operate, entry level, HF
rig, made available to the new Novice.

What kinds of rigs/stations did the rest of you *start* with??
What do you think that *most* young prospective HAMs would be able to handle
to get into the hobby??

-n6ojn

--

Steve @ Noon-Air Heating & A/C


Life is what happens while you were making other plans

Noon-Air wrote:

SNIPPED a lot

What kinds of rigs/stations did the rest of you *start* with??
What do you think that *most* young prospective HAMs would be able to handle
to get into the hobby??

-n6ojn


A Heathkit AT-1, 15 watts, crystal controlled on 80/40/20/10, used on 80
and 40 CW Novice band in the early 1950s. Receiver was a National SW-54.
Antenna was 120 feet of TV twin lead using a small home made tuner [made
by my Elmer]. [Total cost $65].

On my first weekend I earned the WATV award :-)

On my second weekend I earned the MLL Award :-)

On the third weekend I earned the OTA award.

On the fourth weekend my Elmer responded to my awards with corrective
action.

Praise the Lord for Elmer [Ralph Tedford, [W1GID ?] SK]

Subsequently, been on the air for 50+ years.

Noon-Air wrote:
What kinds of rigs/stations did the rest of you *start* with??
What do you think that *most* young prospective HAMs would be able to handle
to get into the hobby??

The problem is the competition. You can buy a NEW computer for $200,
hook it up to broadband and be able to talk around the world, download
video in almost real time, get the news, sports and things that you will
never see or hear on the radio. No tests, NO MORSE CODE, no controls.

The days of electronics experiemnters going to the "radio shop" and buying
some wire, tubes and spare parts and hearing people from around the world
are long gone. The mystery is gone, the parts stores are gone and it seems
that the desire to work to get an education is all lost in the rush.

Cheap rigs are simply not going to do it. There are so many used rigs on
the market these days that go for $300-$400 that even mainland China with
their factories that pay so little can compete. As for new rigs, everyone
wants a simple voice rig with a digital VFO, a gazillion memories and
an AUTOMATIC antenna tuner. You might as well not even include CW, most
prospective hams can't be bothered to learn it.

Education and outreach is the only thing that will. Apple computer started
the concept of "product evangelism", preaching how good the Macintosh was
to the "great uncomputered". Their head evangelist, Guy Kawasaki wrote several
books on the subject.

If ham radio is to continue, you need to "product evangelize" ham radio.
Go out and give demos to schools, scout troups, youth groups. If there are
any kids in your family or neighbors that are interested in computers,
take them to hamfests, they'll go for the computers, but the radios may
catch their interest.

It's also about time to change the license tests. Drop morse code. Add more
good operating practice.

Here in Israel I hear mostly European hams. They are polite and careful
operators. When the "skip rolls in" to use a term from another service, it
seems like CB. Gone are the polite carefull guys, the U.S. phone bands
sound like "lid city". And the CW is not much better, most of it is sent
by computer and the same old garbage you hear on SSB, sent by people
who can type and have a computer program to copy Morse.

Another pet peeve of mine is sstv. It was "neat" seeing it live from
the Mercury space capsules. Fourty years later it has no technological
relevance. Why do we have to give up 20-30kHz of the 20 meter band 24/7
for it?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Whatever happenet to a simple to operate 100watt HF rig that transmits and
recieves??... something in the way of an inexpensive, baseline, HAM band
*only* rig... maybe along the lines of the re-production of the TS-130S.

-n6ojn

With the advent of microprocessor based Ham rigs- many more features and
wide band (HF, 6M, 2M, 440 and SWL) coverage is easily obtainable at about
the same price as a new TS-130S (about $700 new 1980's). See ICOM 706 Mark
II G. The "G" is an all-mode transceiver provides 100 watts on HF and 6
meters and 50 watts on 2 meters plus 20 watts on 440 MHz. It receives from
30 kHz to 199 MHz and from 400 to 470 MHz. For $899

In the 1980's you would have paid twice that for separate radios to cover
those bands all mode

Lots bang for the buck

As far as complexity -- most have a menu presets -- choose your options and
will operate much the same way as a TS-130S



CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be !

"Caveat Lector" wrote in message
news:8xFPf.2411$Uc2.454@fed1read04...

Whatever happenet to a simple to operate 100watt HF rig that transmits
and
recieves??... something in the way of an inexpensive, baseline, HAM band
*only* rig... maybe along the lines of the re-production of the TS-130S.

-n6ojn

With the advent of microprocessor based Ham rigs- many more features and
wide band (HF, 6M, 2M, 440 and SWL) coverage is easily obtainable at
about the same price as a new TS-130S (about $700 new 1980's). See ICOM
706 Mark II G. The "G" is an all-mode transceiver provides 100 watts on HF
and 6 meters and 50 watts on 2 meters plus 20 watts on 440 MHz. It
receives from 30 kHz to 199 MHz and from 400 to 470 MHz. For $899

In the 1980's you would have paid twice that for separate radios to cover
those bands all mode

Lots bang for the buck

As far as complexity -- most have a menu presets -- choose your options
and will operate much the same way as a TS-130S

You completely missed the point..... A *simple to operate* 100 watt HF rig,
NOT microprocessor based, HAM BANDS ONLY...
What was $700 over 25 years ago, should be able to be produced today for
just a hundred bucks or so. When the latest electronic toys come out, they
command a premium price, and after a couple of years, the price goes down to
where a working stiff can afford them.

In article ,
Noon-Air wrote:

You completely missed the point..... A *simple to operate* 100 watt HF rig,
NOT microprocessor based, HAM BANDS ONLY...
What was $700 over 25 years ago, should be able to be produced today for
just a hundred bucks or so. When the latest electronic toys come out, they
command a premium price, and after a couple of years, the price goes down to
where a working stiff can afford them.

Frankly, I'd be astonished if anyone could build a radio to those
specific design goals (non-microprocessor-based, ham-band, 100 watt,
roughly $100 retail price). I don't think that the combination of
technologies, market size, and price can be achieved. It'd be a very
interesting challenge to design, to say the very least!

That's not to say that somebody shouldn't try.

My reasoning is roughly as follows:

- Ham-band operation requires stable frequency operation and
tunability. This either requires a very stable VCO, or a
synthesizer/PLL system of some sort.

- Mass-production consumer electronics, most commercial comms
electronics, and military electronics have long been moving away
from the classic sorts of finely-tuned-and-temperature-
compensated analog oscillators used in a lot of the sort of classic
ham gear you're referring to. These days, decent air-variable
capacitors with good bearings are either special-production builds
(and horribly expensive) or are used or "new old stock" surplus
and thus not suitable for mass commercial use. The same thing
seems to be true for a lot of the other "classic ham" electronic
components... they're being end-of-lifed and we're lucky to be able
to stock up our junk drawers before they're entirely gone!

- Today's low-cost radios are almost all based on synthesizer
technology of some sort, with a microcontroller driving the
synthesizer. I wouldn't want to try driving/commanding a
synthesizer of this sort without a micro - they aren't set up for it.

- Multiple-HF-band operation requires band-specific low-pass
filters... certainly after the amp, and perhaps before. You could
probably get away with a filter system using less filters than
bands (e.g. one filter for 10/12/15, one for 17/20, etc.) but
you're still going to need some LPF switching and some fairly hefty
inductors.

- Restricting to ham-band-only probably doesn't buy you all that
much in savings or performance, these days, due to the large
number of bands. In order to gain big savings, I suspect you'd
have to limit yourself to a monoband radio.

Now, the idea of doing a simple-to-operate, straightforward HF rig
with decent performance isn't a bad one at all. I do suspect that in
order to make it manufacturable at a reasonable price you're going to
have to accept _some_ degree of LSI integration and microprocessor
control. That doesn't mean that it needs to have a massive set of
features, lots of bells and whistles and gawldernblinkinlights, etc.
It could be a nice, clean front panel.

The closest I currently see to what you're looking for is probably the
Ten-Tec Argonaut. However, it's not a full-power barefoot rig... 20
watts... and it's at least five time your cost goal.

I won't say it's impossible to get the retail price of a 100-watt
multiband ham-HF rig down to under $200. However, I suspect that it'd
require a very great deal of optimization and integration, a lot of
use of modern technology (i.e. spinoffs from today's commercially-
available RF and DSP chips), and a development effort which would
require a potential marketplace of hundreds of thousands of units (or
perhaps millions) sold in order to justify.

It'd be interesting to see sorts of HF rigs might be build around a
modulator based on some of today's cellphone chip cores and IP...
direct conversion, high-performance I/Q phasing modulators, and so
forth. More work up front, but (potentially) a lot lower per-unit
incremental cost once you get into volume production.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the size of the market would justify
the investment, needed to create the sort of radio which you feel
could help maintain and increase the size of the amateur-radio market
in the way that you'd like :-(

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Don't think I missed the point at all
Labor rates UP
Factory space cost UP
Parts UP
Advertising cost Up
Taxes UP
Convention Rates, Travel, Hotels, UP

And at an inflation rate of 4% per year -- the $700 1986 radio would be
$1533 today (sound familiar)

I doubt any mfg can produce your $100 radio (with a 40% margin u wud have to
build it for $60 !!!)
Maybe in China Huh ?

Even the Elecraft basic radio -- (u build it) is $359
And it is CW only -- 4 bands 40, 30, 20 and 17 or 15M
But they are selling a lot of them - folks still love to build


--
CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be !






"Noon-Air" wrote in message
...

"Caveat Lector" wrote in message
news:8xFPf.2411$Uc2.454@fed1read04...

Whatever happenet to a simple to operate 100watt HF rig that transmits
and
recieves??... something in the way of an inexpensive, baseline, HAM band
*only* rig... maybe along the lines of the re-production of the TS-130S.

-n6ojn

With the advent of microprocessor based Ham rigs- many more features and
wide band (HF, 6M, 2M, 440 and SWL) coverage is easily obtainable at
about the same price as a new TS-130S (about $700 new 1980's). See ICOM
706 Mark II G. The "G" is an all-mode transceiver provides 100 watts on
HF and 6 meters and 50 watts on 2 meters plus 20 watts on 440 MHz. It
receives from 30 kHz to 199 MHz and from 400 to 470 MHz. For $899

In the 1980's you would have paid twice that for separate radios to cover
those bands all mode

Lots bang for the buck

As far as complexity -- most have a menu presets -- choose your options
and will operate much the same way as a TS-130S

You completely missed the point..... A *simple to operate* 100 watt HF
rig, NOT microprocessor based, HAM BANDS ONLY...
What was $700 over 25 years ago, should be able to be produced today for
just a hundred bucks or so. When the latest electronic toys come out, they
command a premium price, and after a couple of years, the price goes down
to where a working stiff can afford them.