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WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
WANTED: B-17G Flying Fortress radio equipment
This is a long message... please read it all! The Vintage Flying Museum of Fort Worth, Texas, home of B-17G N3701G, "Chuckie", is seeking DONATIONS of any kind of radio and radar equipment that would have been used aboard B-17G's built from early-1944 on. Our airplane is a B-17G-70-VE, serial number 44-8543A. She was built in January, 1944, by the Vega division of Lockheed (B-17G's were built by Boeing, Douglas, and Vega). She was converted to a "pathfinder" model, which means she had a radar set installed in place of the ball turret which allowed bombing through overcast. Very few Forts were converted for this mission, and it is possible that our Fort saw combat time over Europe. The combat records of the pathfinder Forts are still classified, so we may never know for sure. Right now, the only original radio gear installed in the airplane is a BC-348-P receiver and shock mount. We need everything else. Some of the specific items we seek are the BC-375-E transmitter, tuning units TU-4B through TU-10B, BC-306 antenna matching unit, the wooded tuning unit storage rack that mounts to the rear bulkhead, ceramic feedthrough insulators, power and control connectors, and cables. We're also looking for command set transmitters, receivers, racks, cables, control boxes, spline cables (the LONG ones that will reach the flight deck ceiling), modulator, and so on. Obviously, we are looking for NICE equipment that is in display condition because we display the airplane both in the Museum and at air shows and fly-ins. We'll certainly accept donations of "parts units", but the primary focus is on acquiring gear that looks good enough to be installed in the airplane. We want to impress our tour guests at the air shows with a great looking radio room! Do you have some surplus military WW2 airborne radios stashed in your garage or attic? Would you like to see them go to a good home? Please donate your equipment to VFM and help us restore the radio compartment in our beloved B-17! Any radios and accessories that we don't use in the airplane will be either put on display in the Museum's exhibit hall or sold off to generate money to help finance the effort (no matter how much gets donated, we'll still end up having to buy some stuff to complete the job!). We are a small museum, and we have very limited funds available to spend on things that don't actually help us to keep the airplane flying. We are looking for DONATIONS of equipment. We are a 501-c-3 tax-exempt charitable organization, and we will provide a tax receipt for your donation. "Chuckie" is one of approximately 15 B-17s worldwide that are still in flyable condition, and one of about 10 that is flown regularly. Please don't "bash" me if my numbers are off by a plane or two; the numbers go up and down as some Forts come out of restoration and others go down for heavy maintenance or retirement. She participated in the fabuluous Thunder Over Michigan air show in 2005 in which EIGHT of the remaining B-17 population were not only present at the show, but flew together! It was the largest gathering of civilian B-17s in history, and it may never be repeated. Please visit the Museum's web site: http://www.vintageflyingmuseum.org I have been authorized by the Museum to be the focal point for this effort. Please address your messages directly to me. We're also looking for a complete chin turret if you happen to have one stashed in your barn! Actually, we will graciously accept donations of ANY B-17 parts that you might have lying around. :) My final request is this: If you have nothing nice to say about this effort, please say nothing. If you are not a warbird fan, if you believe our effort is a waste of time and money, if you think we're "glorifying" war, if you think operating antique warplanes is dangerous and should be outlawed, etc, etc... you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully ask that you keep it to yourself. Thanks and 73, Dean Hemphill, K5DH Vintage Flying Museum member |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors =K=5=D=H= wrote:
My final request is this: If you have nothing nice to say about this effort, please say nothing. If you are not a warbird fan, if you believe our effort is a waste of time and money, if you think we're "glorifying" war, if you think operating antique warplanes is dangerous and should be outlawed, etc, etc... you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully ask that you keep it to yourself. Up to this point I agree with everything you have to say. But I'll say what I please about your efforts, and defend to the death the right of others to say it, as well. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to read it, either, but everyone else is as entitled to state his, her, or its opinions on old warbirds as you are. That said, I hope you're successful in your quest. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO Tired old sysadmin |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
=K=5=D=H= wrote: because we display the airplane both in the Museum and at air shows and fly-ins. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** I'm appalled to see your group is flying this priceless airplane. Sooner or later someone will crack it up and there will be one less for future generations to see. Please put pressure on your group to ground it permanently and preserve it forever so out great-great grandchildren and all future generations can have the opportunity to see the real thing and not some replica. 73, Bill W6WRT |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Unreal...... Lemme guess, you collect boatanchors, restore them, then refuse
to power them up? Someone once told me ham radio is a 'condition', not a hobby. I'm starting to think he was right. rb "Bill Turner" wrote in message ... ORIGINAL MESSAGE: =K=5=D=H= wrote: because we display the airplane both in the Museum and at air shows and fly-ins. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** I'm appalled to see your group is flying this priceless airplane. Sooner or later someone will crack it up and there will be one less for future generations to see. Please put pressure on your group to ground it permanently and preserve it forever so out great-great grandchildren and all future generations can have the opportunity to see the real thing and not some replica. 73, Bill W6WRT |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
So; if they don't fly it, don't keep it airworthy, what if a hurricane
comes along, does it just sit and wait to be ripped to shreds? More power to them, if they fix it they should fly it. I know of a collector of fine rare cars, he isn't afraid to send them off to vintage races or put them on the road. I am also amazed how collectors rebuild from almost zero remains, so even if it gets busted up... Bill Turner wrote: ORIGINAL MESSAGE: =K=5=D=H= wrote: because we display the airplane both in the Museum and at air shows and fly-ins. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** I'm appalled to see your group is flying this priceless airplane. Sooner or later someone will crack it up and there will be one less for future generations to see. Please put pressure on your group to ground it permanently and preserve it forever so out great-great grandchildren and all future generations can have the opportunity to see the real thing and not some replica. 73, Bill W6WRT -- Joe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"© "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Put the data plate in a safety deposit box and fly the plane!
RST Engineering wrote: The only thing you have to have "original" on an aircraft is the data plate. Everything else can be salvage, new parts, homebuilt parts, whatever. The data plate is the key. Jim I am also amazed how collectors rebuild from almost zero remains, so even if it gets busted up... -- Joe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"© "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
For crying out loud Mike, was that TRULY necessary?
"Mike Andrews" wrote in message ... In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors =K=5=D=H= wrote: My final request is this: If you have nothing nice to say about this effort, please say nothing. If you are not a warbird fan, if you believe our effort is a waste of time and money, if you think we're "glorifying" war, if you think operating antique warplanes is dangerous and should be outlawed, etc, etc... you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully ask that you keep it to yourself. Up to this point I agree with everything you have to say. But I'll say what I please about your efforts, and defend to the death the right of others to say it, as well. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to read it, either, but everyone else is as entitled to state his, her, or its opinions on old warbirds as you are. That said, I hope you're successful in your quest. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO Tired old sysadmin |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... ORIGINAL MESSAGE: =K=5=D=H= wrote: because we display the airplane both in the Museum and at air shows and fly-ins. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** I'm appalled to see your group is flying this priceless airplane. Sooner or later someone will crack it up and there will be one less for future generations to see. Please put pressure on your group to ground it permanently and preserve it forever so out great-great grandchildren and all future generations can have the opportunity to see the real thing and not some replica. 73, Bill W6WRT An airplane that is not flown is so much scrap metal. They were designed and built to be flown and in the air is where they belong. If someone wants a static display let them build a replica. |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Dave Stadt wrote:
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... ORIGINAL MESSAGE: =K=5=D=H= wrote: because we display the airplane both in the Museum and at air shows and fly-ins. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** I'm appalled to see your group is flying this priceless airplane. Sooner or later someone will crack it up and there will be one less for future generations to see. Please put pressure on your group to ground it permanently and preserve it forever so out great-great grandchildren and all future generations can have the opportunity to see the real thing and not some replica. 73, Bill W6WRT An airplane that is not flown is so much scrap metal. They were designed and built to be flown and in the air is where they belong. If someone wants a static display let them build a replica. Hear! Hear! jak |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Dave Stadt wrote:
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... ORIGINAL MESSAGE: =K=5=D=H= wrote: because we display the airplane both in the Museum and at air shows and fly-ins. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** I'm appalled to see your group is flying this priceless airplane. Sooner or later someone will crack it up and there will be one less for future generations to see. Please put pressure on your group to ground it permanently and preserve it forever so out great-great grandchildren and all future generations can have the opportunity to see the real thing and not some replica. 73, Bill W6WRT An airplane that is not flown is so much scrap metal. They were designed and built to be flown and in the air is where they belong. If someone wants a static display let them build a replica. Add to that the fact that this 'priceless airplane' is only such *because* this group invested heavily in its existence. Without their contribution of time, effort, money and hardship, it would--in fact--(still) be only so much scrap metal. jak |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
I'm appalled to see your group is flying this priceless airplane. Sooner or later someone will crack it up and there will be one less for future generations to see. Please put pressure on your group to ground it permanently and preserve it forever so out great-great grandchildren and all future generations can have the opportunity to see the real thing and not some replica. 73, Bill W6WRT An airplane that is not flown is so much scrap metal. They were designed and built to be flown and in the air is where they belong. If someone wants a static display let them build a replica. Add to that the fact that this 'priceless airplane' is only such *because* this group invested heavily in its existence. Without their contribution of time, effort, money and hardship, it would--in fact--(still) be only so much scrap metal. jak Y'all don't suppose that Bill posted his little rebuttal simply because the OP politely asked him not to? Something about "stirring the pot" comes to mind. -Chuck |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors notallhamsareassholes wrote:
"Mike Andrews" wrote in message ... In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors =K=5=D=H= wrote: My final request is this: If you have nothing nice to say about this effort, please say nothing. If you are not a warbird fan, if you believe our effort is a waste of time and money, if you think we're "glorifying" war, if you think operating antique warplanes is dangerous and should be outlawed, etc, etc... you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully ask that you keep it to yourself. Up to this point I agree with everything you have to say. But I'll say what I please about your efforts, and defend to the death the right of others to say it, as well. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to read it, either, but everyone else is as entitled to state his, her, or its opinions on old warbirds as you are. That said, I hope you're successful in your quest. For crying out loud Mike, was that TRULY necessary? I think it was. Usenet is in many ways the equivalent of Speakers' Corner in Hyde Park, London. omeone trying to foreclose comment on his project, after he posts about it on Usenet, is in the position of telling the folks around him at Speakers' Corner that they can listen or not, aas they please, but they aren't to comment. I've been doing this Usenet stuff, for work (mostly) and play since 1983 or so, well before hoi polloi had access to the big-I Internet, and I want to keep its open flavor intact. You have the right to have a different opinion, and (unlike k5dh), I won't ask you to keep it to yourself. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO Tired old sysadmin |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
Woody wrote: Unreal...... Lemme guess, you collect boatanchors, restore them, then refuse to power them up? Someone once told me ham radio is a 'condition', not a hobby. I'm starting to think he was right. rb *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Get real, rb. If someone powers up a boatanchor, it will never end up splattered all over a hillside somewhere. Get it? Bill, W6WRT |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote: So; if they don't fly it, don't keep it airworthy, what if a hurricane comes along, does it just sit and wait to be ripped to shreds? More power to them, if they fix it they should fly it. I know of a collector of fine rare cars, he isn't afraid to send them off to vintage races or put them on the road. I am also amazed how collectors rebuild from almost zero remains, so even if it gets busted up... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Yes, I know stupid, self-centered people too. What's your point? Bill, W6WRT |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
Chuck Harris wrote: Y'all don't suppose that Bill posted his little rebuttal simply because the OP politely asked him not to? Something about "stirring the pot" comes to mind. -Chuck *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** No, Bill posted his little rebuttal because he thinks the OP is an idiot but hopes he will come to his senses anyway. Throughout history there have been many irreplaceable treasures lost because nobody thought future generations would might like to see the original instead of a replica. A real, genuine B-17 is a priceless relic of an age that will never be repeated. Save it. Mr Bill |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Bill Turner wrote:
ORIGINAL MESSAGE: Chuck Harris wrote: Y'all don't suppose that Bill posted his little rebuttal simply because the OP politely asked him not to? Something about "stirring the pot" comes to mind. -Chuck *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** No, Bill posted his little rebuttal because he thinks the OP is an idiot but hopes he will come to his senses anyway. Throughout history there have been many irreplaceable treasures lost because nobody thought future generations would might like to see the original instead of a replica. A real, genuine B-17 is a priceless relic of an age that will never be repeated. Save it. Mr Bill Well, I am sorry to hear that Bill. You obviously aren't familiar with the major causes of loss in restorable antique aircraft: (In approximate order) 1) lack of people willing to pay for restoration 2) hanger fires 3) natural disasters. I have seen a few rare aircraft that have crashed, and guess what? As soon as they get the pilot out, they go back into restoration. There seems to be loads of money available to restore antique aircraft to flight, but little available for restoration to static display. And in my opinion, that is exactly how it should be. Whoever pays the freight gets to decide how the plane is used. Everyone else is just a spectator. -Chuck |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... ORIGINAL MESSAGE: Chuck Harris wrote: Y'all don't suppose that Bill posted his little rebuttal simply because the OP politely asked him not to? Something about "stirring the pot" comes to mind. -Chuck *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** No, Bill posted his little rebuttal because he thinks the OP is an idiot but hopes he will come to his senses anyway. Throughout history there have been many irreplaceable treasures lost because nobody thought future generations would might like to see the original instead of a replica. A real, genuine B-17 is a priceless relic of an age that will never be repeated. Save it. Mr Bill If you feel that way you should purchase them and put them in a museum. Most would not have survived and will not survive without the intent to fly. Not much money available for the restoration of static displays. Lotsa money available for flying restorations. Glaicer girl is an excellent example. |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Heh, I'm as real as it gets, brother.
So you do collect boatanchors? Do you also have an attic full of empty radio boxes? I'm betting you do. But that's your choice, now isn't it? And nothing wrong with it. On the power-up thing, I disagree, citing that it depends on how much power is applied to it..... :-) Or it could catch fire and burn to the desk... or the ground... or if it were donated to a B-17 restoration, it could very well end up splattered all over a hillside somewhere... LOL. And yes, *I* get it.... enjoy what you have or what's the sense in having it?? Moth-ball a vintage plane in Tucson, AZ or some museum, and I'll NEVER get to see it. Fly it to my local fly-in and I do... [said while gazing up at the photo of my daughter sitting left-seat in the Texas Raiders 17g when it was HERE at a fly-in.] Everything is disposable and it certainly doesn't transgress to the 'other side'. Use it or lose it; 'cuz cars are for driving, radios are for driveling into, and an aircraft is for flying. There's a fine line between being a keep-the-box-because-it-matters-to-other-boxkeepers packrat, and preserving history. Do *you* get it?? rb "Bill Turner" wrote in message ... ORIGINAL MESSAGE: Woody wrote: Unreal...... Lemme guess, you collect boatanchors, restore them, then refuse to power them up? Someone once told me ham radio is a 'condition', not a hobby. I'm starting to think he was right. rb *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Get real, rb. If someone powers up a boatanchor, it will never end up splattered all over a hillside somewhere. Get it? Bill, W6WRT |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Wow... didn't realize the scope of this...
In that case, it seems there are plenty of people here who think you are an idiot also. So agree to disagree and be done with it. rb "Bill Turner" wrote in message ... ORIGINAL MESSAGE: Chuck Harris wrote: Y'all don't suppose that Bill posted his little rebuttal simply because the OP politely asked him not to? Something about "stirring the pot" comes to mind. -Chuck *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** No, Bill posted his little rebuttal because he thinks the OP is an idiot but hopes he will come to his senses anyway. Throughout history there have been many irreplaceable treasures lost because nobody thought future generations would might like to see the original instead of a replica. A real, genuine B-17 is a priceless relic of an age that will never be repeated. Save it. Mr Bill |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... ORIGINAL MESSAGE: **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote: So; if they don't fly it, don't keep it airworthy, what if a hurricane comes along, does it just sit and wait to be ripped to shreds? More power to them, if they fix it they should fly it. I know of a collector of fine rare cars, he isn't afraid to send them off to vintage races or put them on the road. I am also amazed how collectors rebuild from almost zero remains, so even if it gets busted up... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Yes, I know stupid, self-centered people too. What's your point? Bill, are you looking in the mirror as you post? Bill, W6WRT |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
"Dave Stadt" wrote in
: If you feel that way you should purchase them and put them in a museum. Most would not have survived and will not survive without the intent to fly. Not much money available for the restoration of static displays. Lotsa money available for flying restorations. Glaicer girl is an excellent example. And the Memphis Belle is an example of a static display going down the tubes. Still not finished and now moved to Dayton, the US Air Force museum due to lack of funds to keep the Belle in condition. Those machines were meant to fly and should be flown. It's really sad to see them rot away on the ground. In the air they are living history, and give peole a chance to experience the ground pounding thunder of their mighty engines as they soar overhead. And very ocaisonally one may get the opportunity to fly in one of them if they are very lucky as a friend of mine did a few years ago in one of the last Lancaster bombers left flying. -- Panzer |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
"Panzer240" wrote in message ... "Dave Stadt" wrote in : If you feel that way you should purchase them and put them in a museum. Most would not have survived and will not survive without the intent to fly. Not much money available for the restoration of static displays. Lotsa money available for flying restorations. Glaicer girl is an excellent example. And the Memphis Belle is an example of a static display going down the tubes. Still not finished and now moved to Dayton, the US Air Force museum due to lack of funds to keep the Belle in condition. Those machines were meant to fly and should be flown. It's really sad to see them rot away on the ground. In the air they are living history, and give peole a chance to experience the ground pounding thunder of their mighty engines as they soar overhead. And very ocaisonally one may get the opportunity to fly in one of them if they are very lucky as a friend of mine did a few years ago in one of the last Lancaster bombers left flying. -- Panzer Another grounded B-17G is parked outside at the Tulare, CA Airport URL: http://ben92252-01.tripod.com/index.htm -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
You can see "Preston's Pride" a B17G at the Tulare, CA Airport if you go to
the Visalia, CA - DX Convention URL: http://www.dxconvention.org/ The 57th Annual DX Convention - A must for DXers -- April 21, 22 & 23 2006 -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! "Caveat Lector" wrote in message news:jqmUf.13996$6a1.4829@fed1read04... Another grounded B-17G is parked outside at the Tulare, CA Airport URL: http://ben92252-01.tripod.com/index.htm -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
Woody wrote: There's a fine line between being a keep-the-box-because-it-matters-to-other-boxkeepers packrat, and preserving history. Do you get it?? rb *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Absolutely, I get it. You and the two or three posters who agree with you are self-centered pigs who care nothing about preserving history. Your temporary adrenaline rush is much more important, and the risk of splattering a priceless aircraft means nothing beside your momentary thrills. How sad that people like you are allowed to own such an aircraft. A hundred or five hundred years from now, if your ilk prevails, people will be saying "Gosh, I wish someone had kept a B-17G preserved somewhere. I would have really loved to see the real thing". I hope and pray there are not many like you. Bill T. |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
Spokesman wrote: Bill, are you looking in the mirror as you post? *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Lame. Try again. Bill T. |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Bill is 100% correct. He should negotiate and buy the plane from the
restorers for its priceless value, say $50-100 million, he can then store it and show it to whomever he pleases! That is the American way! Bill Turner wrote: ORIGINAL MESSAGE: Woody wrote: There's a fine line between being a keep-the-box-because-it-matters-to-other-boxkeepers packrat, and preserving history. Do you get it?? rb *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Absolutely, I get it. You and the two or three posters who agree with you are self-centered pigs who care nothing about preserving history. Your temporary adrenaline rush is much more important, and the risk of splattering a priceless aircraft means nothing beside your momentary thrills. How sad that people like you are allowed to own such an aircraft. A hundred or five hundred years from now, if your ilk prevails, people will be saying "Gosh, I wish someone had kept a B-17G preserved somewhere. I would have really loved to see the real thing". I hope and pray there are not many like you. Bill T. -- Joe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"© "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
"**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**" wrote in message ... Bill is 100% correct. He should negotiate and buy the plane from the restorers for its priceless value, say $50-100 million, he can then store it and show it to whomever he pleases! That is the American way! He won't buy it. All the weenies that complain about somebody else spending their own money to restore and use something will do nothing except huff and puff like the litlle piggies. I plug in my boat anchors. I heat my shop with an FRR 59 . I would never think of just leaving it sitting there collecting dust and rusting away. Bill Turner wrote: ORIGINAL MESSAGE: Woody wrote: There's a fine line between being a keep-the-box-because-it-matters-to-other-boxkeepers packrat, and preserving history. Do you get it?? rb *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Absolutely, I get it. You and the two or three posters who agree with you are self-centered pigs who care nothing about preserving history. Your temporary adrenaline rush is much more important, and the risk of splattering a priceless aircraft means nothing beside your momentary thrills. How sad that people like you are allowed to own such an aircraft. A hundred or five hundred years from now, if your ilk prevails, people will be saying "Gosh, I wish someone had kept a B-17G preserved somewhere. I would have really loved to see the real thing". I hope and pray there are not many like you. Bill T. -- Joe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"© "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote: Bill is 100% correct. He should negotiate and buy the plane from the restorers for its priceless value, say $50-100 million, he can then store it and show it to whomever he pleases! That is the American way! *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** If I had the money, I would. Bill T. |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
Spokesman wrote: I plug in my boat anchors. I heat my shop with an FRR 59 . I would never think of just leaving it sitting there collecting dust and rusting away. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Your boatanchor will not be destroyed by plugging it in and using it on your bench at home. No problem there. On the other hand, if it is one of a very few remaining, it might not be a good idea to take it on a one-man kayak DXpedition across the Bering Sea in winter. Airplanes crash, especially ones flown and maintained by well-meaning but inexperienced pilots and mechanics who are usually short of cash, spare parts and time, and who, sooner or later, will feel the pressure to fly it when they really shouldn't in order to keep an airshow schedule. Park it. Bill T. |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Absolutely, I get it. You and the two or three posters who agree with you are self-centered pigs who care nothing about preserving history. Your temporary adrenaline rush is much more important, and the risk of splattering a priceless aircraft means nothing beside your momentary thrills. How sad that people like you are allowed to own such an aircraft. A hundred or five hundred years from now, if your ilk prevails, people will be saying "Gosh, I wish someone had kept a B-17G preserved somewhere. I would have really loved to see the real thing". I hope and pray there are not many like you. Bill T. There are millions of us. |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Dave Stadt wrote:
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Absolutely, I get it. You and the two or three posters who agree with you are self-centered pigs who care nothing about preserving history. Your temporary adrenaline rush is much more important, and the risk of splattering a priceless aircraft means nothing beside your momentary thrills. How sad that people like you are allowed to own such an aircraft. A hundred or five hundred years from now, if your ilk prevails, people will be saying "Gosh, I wish someone had kept a B-17G preserved somewhere. I would have really loved to see the real thing". I hope and pray there are not many like you. Bill T. There are millions of us. And he's heard from 'many like...' here. The word 'obtuse' comes to mind. jak |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Panzer240 wrote:
"Dave Stadt" wrote in : If you feel that way you should purchase them and put them in a museum. Most would not have survived and will not survive without the intent to fly. Not much money available for the restoration of static displays. Lotsa money available for flying restorations. Glaicer girl is an excellent example. And the Memphis Belle is an example of a static display going down the tubes. Still not finished and now moved to Dayton, the US Air Force museum due to lack of funds to keep the Belle in condition. Those machines were meant to fly and should be flown. It's really sad to see them rot away on the ground. In the air they are living history, and give peole a chance to experience the ground pounding thunder of their mighty engines as they soar overhead. And very ocaisonally one may get the opportunity to fly in one of them if they are very lucky as a friend of mine did a few years ago in one of the last Lancaster bombers left flying. Aww...that's too bad. I only saw her once back in the 80's and she looked fine back then. I guess I should have questioned (in my mind anyway) the wisdom of keeping her in open air beside--no, in the middle of (Mud Island - Memphis)--the Mississippi River; but they went to a lot of trouble to get her there. It's a shame to have abandoned the effort. This is a case of perhaps a machine which should only be static displayed. She's not one of the thousands of anonymous 17's remembered only by their dwindling numbers of surviving crew; but rather a piece of history with an unparalleled combat record at the time of her retirement. She's done her bit... jak |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Holy cow, what a firestorm I've started!
In my original post, I should have included the following statement (which might have avoided this useless fight): Please keep your opinion to yourself BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT FORUM FOR SUCH A DISCUSSION (on whether it's right or wrong to fly vintage aircraft, etc). I surely did not mean that we all can't have our opinions. This IS still the United States of America, and that IS still one of our most basic, cherished freedoms. I, too, would fight to the death to defend those freedoms. However, there is a time and place to discuss any topic worth discussing, and this simply isn't the place for the "fly or no fly" topic. This is a forum for discussing radios, not the politics of aviation. Of course, hindsight is 20-20. I apologize to the group for opening the flood gates and inadvertently getting this inappropriate firestorm started. I'll toss in my comments, since the horse has long ago escaped from the barn. For those who believe that we should ground our B-17 to preserve it for future generations, lest it might someday be destroyed and no one will get to see one in the future, fear not. There are literally dozens of B-17s on static display all over the world. A few of those static restorations are superb (witness the USAF Museum's Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby), while a many other static planes are cobbled-together airframes that are literally rotting away on outdoor display. One need only look for static B-17s, and they'll be relatively easy to find. They're not really in short supply. Someone mentioned seeing Memphis Belle flying back in the 1980s (I think that's what they said). Memphis Belle has not flown in decades. There is another "F" model that's painted to represent the Belle, and that aircraft is a regular flyer on the show circuit. As I recall, it's the only flying "F" model. The comment about many vintage warplanes crashing due to poor piloting and poor maintenance is right on the money. These old aircraft require a LOT of work to keep them safely operational, and they require a LOT of pilot skill and training to keep the pilots from making the poor decision that lead to crashes. Many groups have fallen into this category (including the mighty CAF), but that's changing. We're seeing a big trend toward proper restorations (not just patching airplanes together) and proper training of pilots and crews. The safety records are getting better (though we certainly have a long way to go). The warbird community recognizes that slip-shod restoration work ain't gonna cut it, and pilot training has become the big focus that it should have been in the past. We're not out of the woods yet, but we're a LOT better, and continuing to improve. VFM's chief pilot (and the actual owner of our B-17) is one of the few B-17 flight instructors in the world. He's owned and flown this particular airplane since the 1970s. Our chief mechanic is a lifelong A&P mechanic (also a ham!). Our maintenance schedule is thorough and very rigorous. NOTHING comes before safety, on the ground and in the air. Our ground and air crews go through recurrent annual training and constant on-the-line training. If there's a problem, then the airplane does not fly. It's as simple as that. No airshow commitment is important enough to risk the lives of our crews or the safety of the airplane. As I stated before, the reason we don't have money to go buy vintage radios is that our money goes into the one really important thing: the airplane itself. OK... as Ed Zeranski pointed out... the purpose of my original posting was to try to acquire original radio gear for the B-17. So far, a lot of people have come out of the woodwork to argue and fight and whine, but Ed's the only one who's actually offered to donate anything (other than myself; I donated a nice ARC5 transmitter from my own station). As I told Ed in a private email, the chances that we will be able to put together a working station aboard the aircraft are pretty small. So far, no other '17 has a working station, though several of them have a nice set of original radios installed but not wired. We won't rule out the possibility of getting some of the gear to work (at least the BC-348-J receiver), but since all of the required wiring was removed from the airframe decades ago, it would be daunting task that would require a lot of money and volunteer hours. We prefer to spend the money keeping the airplane in proper, safe flying condition, and using her to share history with those who come to the museum and to the air shows to see and appreciate it. I said in my original post that we have a BC-348-P on board the '17. I was mistaken. It's a BC-348-J. I didn't have my notes handy when I wrote the post. So... GENTLEMEN... let's halt the "fly - no fly" part of this thread... let's agree to disagree and get back to the original purpose. If no one is interested in helping us out, that's fine. We will survive. Let's just stop all of the arguing and whining. This isn't the right forum for it. Write to the FAA and ask them to stop allowing us to fly. Write to Air Classics and tell the world why what we do is wrong (and yes, Mike O'Leary WILL publish letters of dissent!). Stand out in front of our museum entrance and hand out flyers to our guests if you like. Let's just re-focus on radio gear here on these newsgroups! Please? 73, Dean Hemphill, K5DH In article , says... WANTED: B-17G Flying Fortress radio equipment This is a long message... please read it all! The Vintage Flying Museum of Fort Worth, Texas, home of B-17G N3701G, "Chuckie", is seeking DONATIONS of any kind of radio and radar equipment that would have been used aboard B-17G's built from early-1944 on. Our airplane is a B-17G-70-VE, serial number 44-8543A. She was built in January, 1944, by the Vega division of Lockheed (B-17G's were built by Boeing, Douglas, and Vega). She was converted to a "pathfinder" model, which means she had a radar set installed in place of the ball turret which allowed bombing through overcast. Very few Forts were converted for this mission, and it is possible that our Fort saw combat time over Europe. The combat records of the pathfinder Forts are still classified, so we may never know for sure. Right now, the only original radio gear installed in the airplane is a BC-348-P receiver and shock mount. We need everything else. Some of the specific items we seek are the BC-375-E transmitter, tuning units TU-4B through TU-10B, BC-306 antenna matching unit, the wooded tuning unit storage rack that mounts to the rear bulkhead, ceramic feedthrough insulators, power and control connectors, and cables. We're also looking for command set transmitters, receivers, racks, cables, control boxes, spline cables (the LONG ones that will reach the flight deck ceiling), modulator, and so on. Obviously, we are looking for NICE equipment that is in display condition because we display the airplane both in the Museum and at air shows and fly-ins. We'll certainly accept donations of "parts units", but the primary focus is on acquiring gear that looks good enough to be installed in the airplane. We want to impress our tour guests at the air shows with a great looking radio room! Do you have some surplus military WW2 airborne radios stashed in your garage or attic? Would you like to see them go to a good home? Please donate your equipment to VFM and help us restore the radio compartment in our beloved B-17! Any radios and accessories that we don't use in the airplane will be either put on display in the Museum's exhibit hall or sold off to generate money to help finance the effort (no matter how much gets donated, we'll still end up having to buy some stuff to complete the job!). We are a small museum, and we have very limited funds available to spend on things that don't actually help us to keep the airplane flying. We are looking for DONATIONS of equipment. We are a 501-c-3 tax-exempt charitable organization, and we will provide a tax receipt for your donation. "Chuckie" is one of approximately 15 B-17s worldwide that are still in flyable condition, and one of about 10 that is flown regularly. Please don't "bash" me if my numbers are off by a plane or two; the numbers go up and down as some Forts come out of restoration and others go down for heavy maintenance or retirement. She participated in the fabuluous Thunder Over Michigan air show in 2005 in which EIGHT of the remaining B-17 population were not only present at the show, but flew together! It was the largest gathering of civilian B-17s in history, and it may never be repeated. Please visit the Museum's web site: http://www.vintageflyingmuseum.org I have been authorized by the Museum to be the focal point for this effort. Please address your messages directly to me. We're also looking for a complete chin turret if you happen to have one stashed in your barn! Actually, we will graciously accept donations of ANY B-17 parts that you might have lying around. :) My final request is this: If you have nothing nice to say about this effort, please say nothing. If you are not a warbird fan, if you believe our effort is a waste of time and money, if you think we're "glorifying" war, if you think operating antique warplanes is dangerous and should be outlawed, etc, etc... you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully ask that you keep it to yourself. Thanks and 73, Dean Hemphill, K5DH Vintage Flying Museum member |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Well if you had asked for the radio gear without your horse **** caveat,
rules and regulation probably no one would have responded. "-=H=-" wrote in message ... Holy cow, what a firestorm I've started! In my original post, I should have included the following statement (which might have avoided this useless fight): Please keep your opinion to yourself BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT FORUM FOR SUCH A DISCUSSION (on whether it's right or wrong to fly vintage aircraft, etc). I surely did not mean that we all can't have our opinions. This IS still the United States of America, and that IS still one of our most basic, cherished freedoms. I, too, would fight to the death to defend those freedoms. However, there is a time and place to discuss any topic worth discussing, and this simply isn't the place for the "fly or no fly" topic. This is a forum for discussing radios, not the politics of aviation. Of course, hindsight is 20-20. I apologize to the group for opening the flood gates and inadvertently getting this inappropriate firestorm started. I'll toss in my comments, since the horse has long ago escaped from the barn. For those who believe that we should ground our B-17 to preserve it for future generations, lest it might someday be destroyed and no one will get to see one in the future, fear not. There are literally dozens of B-17s on static display all over the world. A few of those static restorations are superb (witness the USAF Museum's Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby), while a many other static planes are cobbled-together airframes that are literally rotting away on outdoor display. One need only look for static B-17s, and they'll be relatively easy to find. They're not really in short supply. Someone mentioned seeing Memphis Belle flying back in the 1980s (I think that's what they said). Memphis Belle has not flown in decades. There is another "F" model that's painted to represent the Belle, and that aircraft is a regular flyer on the show circuit. As I recall, it's the only flying "F" model. The comment about many vintage warplanes crashing due to poor piloting and poor maintenance is right on the money. These old aircraft require a LOT of work to keep them safely operational, and they require a LOT of pilot skill and training to keep the pilots from making the poor decision that lead to crashes. Many groups have fallen into this category (including the mighty CAF), but that's changing. We're seeing a big trend toward proper restorations (not just patching airplanes together) and proper training of pilots and crews. The safety records are getting better (though we certainly have a long way to go). The warbird community recognizes that slip-shod restoration work ain't gonna cut it, and pilot training has become the big focus that it should have been in the past. We're not out of the woods yet, but we're a LOT better, and continuing to improve. VFM's chief pilot (and the actual owner of our B-17) is one of the few B-17 flight instructors in the world. He's owned and flown this particular airplane since the 1970s. Our chief mechanic is a lifelong A&P mechanic (also a ham!). Our maintenance schedule is thorough and very rigorous. NOTHING comes before safety, on the ground and in the air. Our ground and air crews go through recurrent annual training and constant on-the-line training. If there's a problem, then the airplane does not fly. It's as simple as that. No airshow commitment is important enough to risk the lives of our crews or the safety of the airplane. As I stated before, the reason we don't have money to go buy vintage radios is that our money goes into the one really important thing: the airplane itself. OK... as Ed Zeranski pointed out... the purpose of my original posting was to try to acquire original radio gear for the B-17. So far, a lot of people have come out of the woodwork to argue and fight and whine, but Ed's the only one who's actually offered to donate anything (other than myself; I donated a nice ARC5 transmitter from my own station). As I told Ed in a private email, the chances that we will be able to put together a working station aboard the aircraft are pretty small. So far, no other '17 has a working station, though several of them have a nice set of original radios installed but not wired. We won't rule out the possibility of getting some of the gear to work (at least the BC-348-J receiver), but since all of the required wiring was removed from the airframe decades ago, it would be daunting task that would require a lot of money and volunteer hours. We prefer to spend the money keeping the airplane in proper, safe flying condition, and using her to share history with those who come to the museum and to the air shows to see and appreciate it. I said in my original post that we have a BC-348-P on board the '17. I was mistaken. It's a BC-348-J. I didn't have my notes handy when I wrote the post. So... GENTLEMEN... let's halt the "fly - no fly" part of this thread... let's agree to disagree and get back to the original purpose. If no one is interested in helping us out, that's fine. We will survive. Let's just stop all of the arguing and whining. This isn't the right forum for it. Write to the FAA and ask them to stop allowing us to fly. Write to Air Classics and tell the world why what we do is wrong (and yes, Mike O'Leary WILL publish letters of dissent!). Stand out in front of our museum entrance and hand out flyers to our guests if you like. Let's just re-focus on radio gear here on these newsgroups! Please? 73, Dean Hemphill, K5DH In article , says... WANTED: B-17G Flying Fortress radio equipment This is a long message... please read it all! The Vintage Flying Museum of Fort Worth, Texas, home of B-17G N3701G, "Chuckie", is seeking DONATIONS of any kind of radio and radar equipment that would have been used aboard B-17G's built from early-1944 on. Our airplane is a B-17G-70-VE, serial number 44-8543A. She was built in January, 1944, by the Vega division of Lockheed (B-17G's were built by Boeing, Douglas, and Vega). She was converted to a "pathfinder" model, which means she had a radar set installed in place of the ball turret which allowed bombing through overcast. Very few Forts were converted for this mission, and it is possible that our Fort saw combat time over Europe. The combat records of the pathfinder Forts are still classified, so we may never know for sure. Right now, the only original radio gear installed in the airplane is a BC-348-P receiver and shock mount. We need everything else. Some of the specific items we seek are the BC-375-E transmitter, tuning units TU-4B through TU-10B, BC-306 antenna matching unit, the wooded tuning unit storage rack that mounts to the rear bulkhead, ceramic feedthrough insulators, power and control connectors, and cables. We're also looking for command set transmitters, receivers, racks, cables, control boxes, spline cables (the LONG ones that will reach the flight deck ceiling), modulator, and so on. Obviously, we are looking for NICE equipment that is in display condition because we display the airplane both in the Museum and at air shows and fly-ins. We'll certainly accept donations of "parts units", but the primary focus is on acquiring gear that looks good enough to be installed in the airplane. We want to impress our tour guests at the air shows with a great looking radio room! Do you have some surplus military WW2 airborne radios stashed in your garage or attic? Would you like to see them go to a good home? Please donate your equipment to VFM and help us restore the radio compartment in our beloved B-17! Any radios and accessories that we don't use in the airplane will be either put on display in the Museum's exhibit hall or sold off to generate money to help finance the effort (no matter how much gets donated, we'll still end up having to buy some stuff to complete the job!). We are a small museum, and we have very limited funds available to spend on things that don't actually help us to keep the airplane flying. We are looking for DONATIONS of equipment. We are a 501-c-3 tax-exempt charitable organization, and we will provide a tax receipt for your donation. "Chuckie" is one of approximately 15 B-17s worldwide that are still in flyable condition, and one of about 10 that is flown regularly. Please don't "bash" me if my numbers are off by a plane or two; the numbers go up and down as some Forts come out of restoration and others go down for heavy maintenance or retirement. She participated in the fabuluous Thunder Over Michigan air show in 2005 in which EIGHT of the remaining B-17 population were not only present at the show, but flew together! It was the largest gathering of civilian B-17s in history, and it may never be repeated. Please visit the Museum's web site: http://www.vintageflyingmuseum.org I have been authorized by the Museum to be the focal point for this effort. Please address your messages directly to me. We're also looking for a complete chin turret if you happen to have one stashed in your barn! Actually, we will graciously accept donations of ANY B-17 parts that you might have lying around. :) My final request is this: If you have nothing nice to say about this effort, please say nothing. If you are not a warbird fan, if you believe our effort is a waste of time and money, if you think we're "glorifying" war, if you think operating antique warplanes is dangerous and should be outlawed, etc, etc... you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully ask that you keep it to yourself. Thanks and 73, Dean Hemphill, K5DH Vintage Flying Museum member |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
Perhaps it will help if you realize this is an unmoderated, free, open
forum. As such all sorts of folks lurk here. (from the bottom to the top of the scale) Many obviously with no knowledge of warbirds and restorations there of. The best way to avoid the "firestorm" is to ignore comments not related to your donation request. I sincerely hope some will come forward for the radio donations, I certainly would if I had some. This from one who flew in the 50's prop planes (Before the jets) I fondly recall the ARC-5's, ART-13, BC-348's etc. My Uncle flew in B-17's & B-24's in the China, Burma, India theater - he would be pleased with your efforts. Someday his descendents will marvel that men flew in such machines. Your efforts are a fitting tribute to the men who flew and died in these planes. I think is admirable for you to try and put them back in their original setting - kudos and good luck I'll spread the word here in So Calif for possible donors. -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! "-=H=-" wrote in message ... Holy cow, what a firestorm I've started! In my original post, I should have included the following statement (which might have avoided this useless fight): SNIP |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
HEAR HEAR!!!!
Well said. -- RoD KD0XX PG-6-29404 "Ed Zeranski" wrote in message ... Jeeze Loooo F***in' Weeze Folks! Stop the Global Whining! I don't care about the first post and the request for no BS...you can ask for what ever you want. Now....anybody else gonna pony up a part or two toward having a B-17 with a representative radio position? From what I've learned the radio position will be for display not a necessarily a full on operating position. That is OK in my book, better than an open hole. The op and his group can always have a radio position outside the airframe like Dave Stinson had in Texas that can be set up next to the airframe and operated where lots can see it. Anyway, I gave a grunch of radio gear to LST325 that worked because they wanted to set up an operating radio space. No probs sending some look-at ARC-5 to a B-17. Anyone else going to send some parts? Or just blab? EdZ |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
In article ,
jakdedert wrote: Dave Stadt wrote: "Bill Turner" wrote in message ... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Absolutely, I get it. You and the two or three posters who agree with you are self-centered pigs who care nothing about preserving history. Your temporary adrenaline rush is much more important, and the risk of splattering a priceless aircraft means nothing beside your momentary thrills. How sad that people like you are allowed to own such an aircraft. A hundred or five hundred years from now, if your ilk prevails, people will be saying "Gosh, I wish someone had kept a B-17G preserved somewhere. I would have really loved to see the real thing". I hope and pray there are not many like you. Bill T. There are millions of us. And he's heard from 'many like...' here. The word 'obtuse' comes to mind. As does the word 'troll'. Chris. -- "People in general are not fundamentally stupid." "Cite?" Robin Munn & Simon Cozens in the scary devil monastery |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... ORIGINAL MESSAGE: **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote: Bill is 100% correct. He should negotiate and buy the plane from the restorers for its priceless value, say $50-100 million, he can then store it and show it to whomever he pleases! That is the American way! *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** If I had the money, I would. Then don't complain about what other people are doing! Bill T. |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-=H=- wrote: We will survive. Let's just stop all of the arguing and whining. This isn't the right forum for it. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Very interesting that the post asking to stop the arguing and whining is the longest post of all, by far. In a nutshell, that's the problem. Only your thoughts are important, only your desires are valid, what you want is primary above all. As long as folks like you own these priceless relics, someday the last one will be reduced to scrap. What a shame. Bill T. |
WANTED: Museum seeks B-17G Flying Fortress radio/radar equipment
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
RST Engineering wrote: Money talks, bull**** walks. Jim *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Not so pal, just the opposite. Bull****ters talk forever, money steps up and quietly does the job. Bill T. |
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