On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote:


You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t
work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is
considered acceptable!


Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have
them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of
course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a
potential recorder from some other device, object, etc.

If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to
determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if
recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become
illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on
private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure
either (depending on laws in your locale). If private
property, the other party may still refuse a search and
seizure attempt.

Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at
entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning
on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that
you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same
guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of
importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted
not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way.

Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make
people suspect you have something to hide and put your
activities under more scrutiny.

On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote:

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote:


You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t
work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is
considered acceptable!


Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have
them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of
course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a
potential recorder from some other device, object, etc.

If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to
determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if
recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become
illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on
private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure
either (depending on laws in your locale). If private
property, the other party may still refuse a search and
seizure attempt.

Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at
entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning
on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that
you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same
guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of
importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted
not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way.

Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make
people suspect you have something to hide and put your
activities under more scrutiny.


Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its
operation. OK. Thanks.

Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape
recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer
available.

"Joey" wrote in message
...
On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote:

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote:


You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t
work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is
considered acceptable!


Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have
them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of
course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a
potential recorder from some other device, object, etc.

If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to
determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if
recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become
illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on
private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure
either (depending on laws in your locale). If private
property, the other party may still refuse a search and
seizure attempt.

Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at
entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning
on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that
you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same
guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of
importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted
not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way.

Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make
people suspect you have something to hide and put your
activities under more scrutiny.


Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its
operation. OK. Thanks.

Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape
recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer
available.

It should not come as a surprise, that security concerns that
deal in high level technological detection devices, don't
advertise to the general public that much. Search harder.

Luck;
Ken

Joey wrote in :

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?


There probably is a little electro magnetic energy leaving the device, but
what frequency would you try to find it on? Other electronic things such
as computers, printers, etc in the office most likely emit far more RF
noise than the MP3 device. It would be hard to find it. Eventually, the
power would run down and the thing would stop recording. Someone would
have to come by again and pick up the recorder. So your best bet is to be
on the lookout for any suspicious recorder placement and pick up activity.

Or just buy as stereo for your office and play it real loud all the time.

Maybe belch and fart a lot too.

SC

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:08:40 GMT, Slow Code wrote:

Maybe belch and fart a lot too.

Or a noisy computer placed close to where the suspected mp3 recorder
would be. I have an ancient 286 whose 80MB hard drive sounds like
it's about to take off and its fan is second only to vacuum cleaner on
the noise level.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all.

On 10 Oct 2006, Slow Code wrote:

Joey wrote in
:

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a
voice recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then
you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the
dictation machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an
MP3 player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh
cycles?


There probably is a little electro magnetic energy leaving the
device, but what frequency would you try to find it on? Other
electronic things such as computers, printers, etc in the office
most likely emit far more RF noise than the MP3 device. It would be
hard to find it. Eventually, the power would run down and the
thing would stop recording. Someone would have to come by again
and pick up the recorder. So your best bet is to be on the lookout
for any suspicious recorder placement and pick up activity.

Or just buy as stereo for your office and play it real loud all the
time.

Maybe belch and fart a lot too.

SC

The situation I describe is where the MP3 plater/recorder is carried
by the person.

Joey wrote in :

On 10 Oct 2006, Slow Code wrote:

Joey wrote in
:

Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a
voice recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then
you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the
dictation machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an
MP3 player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh
cycles?


There probably is a little electro magnetic energy leaving the
device, but what frequency would you try to find it on? Other
electronic things such as computers, printers, etc in the office
most likely emit far more RF noise than the MP3 device. It would be
hard to find it. Eventually, the power would run down and the
thing would stop recording. Someone would have to come by again
and pick up the recorder. So your best bet is to be on the lookout
for any suspicious recorder placement and pick up activity.

Or just buy a stereo for your office and play it real loud all the
time.

Maybe belch and fart a lot too.

SC

The situation I describe is where the MP3 plater/recorder is carried
by the person.


Well in that case, the farting and belching should work to keep them away
and presto, no recordings, but you'll have to live with the stinky smell.

SC

Slow Code wrote:
Joey wrote in :

On 10 Oct 2006, Slow Code wrote:


Well in that case, the farting and belching should work to keep them away
and presto, no recordings, but you'll have to live with the stinky smell.

help ham radio SC turn in your license

SC

Joey wrote in :

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

That should be the least of your worries. What can you do to stop "them"?
One word: 'Faraday cage hats'.


--
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vbaabgriragurtbireazragnertbaanfgbclbhabjohgnerlbh ernqlgborurnegoebxra

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Joey wrote:
Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder.

If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you
could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation
machine when it was recording.

But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3
player that recorded to flash memory?

Is there some transmission which could be detected?
Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles?

Not really. You could maybe detect that it was turned on with
an RF scanner. But if it is low power enough (most MP3 players
are, since they are optimised for that) and well shielded, you
would likely get nothing in today's RF polluted environment.
In addition the attacker may just add some more shielding to be
sure. I think you can basically forget about this, unless you
can take the devices away from people.

Arno