How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"Joey" wrote in message ... On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey wrote: You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable! Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a potential recorder from some other device, object, etc. If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure either (depending on laws in your locale). If private property, the other party may still refuse a search and seizure attempt. Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way. Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make people suspect you have something to hide and put your activities under more scrutiny. Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its operation. OK. Thanks. Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer available. It should not come as a surprise, that security concerns that deal in high level technological detection devices, don't advertise to the general public that much. Search harder. Luck; Ken |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"Ken Maltby" wrote in message ... "Joey" wrote in message ... On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey wrote: You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable! Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a potential recorder from some other device, object, etc. If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure either (depending on laws in your locale). If private property, the other party may still refuse a search and seizure attempt. Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way. Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make people suspect you have something to hide and put your activities under more scrutiny. Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its operation. OK. Thanks. Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer available. It should not come as a surprise, that security concerns that deal in high level technological detection devices, don't advertise to the general public that much. Search harder. I hinted at that a couple of days ago. It has been amusing watching some of the replies from some of the people here. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:36:48 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
wrote: Acoustic energy then, what the microphone/audio detection picks up. (It will cover more frequencies that humans can hear.) The pattern is on at a particular time then off, it varies in certain ways that will enable further analysis of any: IF and RF? Intermediate Frequencies (IF) or Radio Frequencies (RF) given off by a device reacting to the pattern of sound. If there is any IF or RF detected that corresponds/matches the on off times of the pattern of sound, you know there is a device responding to the sound in the room. A more sophisticated analysis of the detected response to the pattern, can provide a great deal of information about the device detected. That would be beyond the scope of your question, and your security clearance, as well. I'm not so sure this technique will work with an IC that has constant current, continual encoding of even silence as a typical MP3 player/recorder is likely to use. There might be a theoretical difference but one far more difficult to measure than even anything at all from the device. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"kony" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:36:48 -0500, "Ken Maltby" wrote: Acoustic energy then, what the microphone/audio detection picks up. (It will cover more frequencies that humans can hear.) The pattern is on at a particular time then off, it varies in certain ways that will enable further analysis of any: IF and RF? Intermediate Frequencies (IF) or Radio Frequencies (RF) given off by a device reacting to the pattern of sound. If there is any IF or RF detected that corresponds/matches the on off times of the pattern of sound, you know there is a device responding to the sound in the room. A more sophisticated analysis of the detected response to the pattern, can provide a great deal of information about the device detected. That would be beyond the scope of your question, and your security clearance, as well. I'm not so sure this technique will work with an IC that has constant current, continual encoding of even silence as a typical MP3 player/recorder is likely to use. There might be a theoretical difference but one far more difficult to measure than even anything at all from the device. You would be surprised at what is being done. As one of my techs used to say. "Noise, what Noise". But then this stuff tends to be kind of pricey. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"kony" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:36:48 -0500, "Ken Maltby" wrote: Acoustic energy then, what the microphone/audio detection picks up. (It will cover more frequencies that humans can hear.) The pattern is on at a particular time then off, it varies in certain ways that will enable further analysis of any: IF and RF? Intermediate Frequencies (IF) or Radio Frequencies (RF) given off by a device reacting to the pattern of sound. If there is any IF or RF detected that corresponds/matches the on off times of the pattern of sound, you know there is a device responding to the sound in the room. A more sophisticated analysis of the detected response to the pattern, can provide a great deal of information about the device detected. That would be beyond the scope of your question, and your security clearance, as well. I'm not so sure this technique will work with an IC that has constant current, continual encoding of even silence as a typical MP3 player/recorder is likely to use. There might be a theoretical difference but one far more difficult to measure than even anything at all from the device. You know how an IC gives off heat in relation to how hard it is working, ("constant current" is a myth) heat is only one part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Switching devices certainly produce as much "noise" when they operate as analog devices, more in most cases. We have devices that can detect very, very low wattage signals. Luck; Ken |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Impmon wrote in news:b59oi2tuh78itfnupp6n0j04teksmeeuqp@
4ax.com: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:54:06 +0100, Joey wrote: What is "3 AM". On digital clock, it would read 3:00 and the PM indicator would be off. On analoug clock, the big hand would be pointing at 12 and small hand at 3 and outside should be still dark (no sun) Not very helpful for those of us who are residing in prison with no access to an outside window. -- ybbxvatyvxrnobeantnvayvivatyvxrnurergvpyvfgravatgb neguheyrrerpbeqfznxv atnyylbhesevraqfsrryfbthvyglnobhggurveplavpvfznaqg urerfgbsgurvetrareng vbaabgriragurtbireazragnertbaanfgbclbhabjohgnerlbh ernqlgborurnegoebxra |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote in message
... On 10 Oct 2006, Aly wrote: Is that right? Hear this radio programme (under 30 mins). Use whichever protocol works best for you, both are the same. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/...eingbugged.ram rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/radio4/science/beingbugged.ra Sorry for my rather unhelpful reply, I'm having one of my moments where I only talk to microcontrollers. Seriously though. There's very little in world that's so important. I've worked with people that would *record* meetings thinking they were of vital importance when in actual truth, no one could care less. I guess it would just cause people to be more careful about what they say. I'm unable to view those videos you've supplied as this is a development machine without any clutter on it. eBay could be a good place to buy such things though. All sorts of stuff comes out of the AsiaPac. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Jamie t wrote:
Arno Wagner wrote: In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? Not really. You could maybe detect that it was turned on with an RF scanner. But if it is low power enough (most MP3 players are, since they are optimised for that) and well shielded, you would likely get nothing in today's RF polluted environment. In addition the attacker may just add some more shielding to be sure. I think you can basically forget about this, unless you can take the devices away from people. Arno i have seen a device used by an electrical instructor at a trade school. he does not like any Cell, recorders or electronic devices active while in his class. this device will buzz and vibrate in his pocket as he walks around the class, he can walk right up to the student that has something on.. it works by detecting a variation of known R.F. frequencies that helps him decide on an LCD screen of the device what it could be, and then it has wide band detection of any R.F. generation.. as you know, most devices do generate some R.F. of some freq.. i've seen it in use and its on the market... all i can say is by his words, "it works very good" That sounds like BS to me. Of course cellphones are very easy to detect that way, and I expect that is what he is showing off. Forget about non-woreless devices. They have several orders of magnitude less RF emanations. This guy is likely demonstrating with cellphones and then claiming he can detect the other things without ever demonstrating. Arno |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Jamie t wrote:
Arno Wagner wrote: In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? Not really. You could maybe detect that it was turned on with an RF scanner. But if it is low power enough (most MP3 players are, since they are optimised for that) and well shielded, you would likely get nothing in today's RF polluted environment. In addition the attacker may just add some more shielding to be sure. I think you can basically forget about this, unless you can take the devices away from people. Arno i have seen a device used by an electrical instructor at a trade school. he does not like any Cell, recorders or electronic devices active while in his class. this device will buzz and vibrate in his pocket as he walks around the class, he can walk right up to the student that has something on.. it works by detecting a variation of known R.F. frequencies that helps him decide on an LCD screen of the device what it could be, and then it has wide band detection of any R.F. generation.. as you know, most devices do generate some R.F. of some freq.. i've seen it in use and its on the market... all i can say is by his words, "it works very good" Trouble is that he cant know about the devices his doesnt detect. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Arno Wagner wrote:
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? Not really. You could maybe detect that it was turned on with an RF scanner. But if it is low power enough (most MP3 players are, since they are optimised for that) and well shielded, you would likely get nothing in today's RF polluted environment. In addition the attacker may just add some more shielding to be sure. I think you can basically forget about this, unless you can take the devices away from people. Arno i have seen a device used by an electrical instructor at a trade school. he does not like any Cell, recorders or electronic devices active while in his class. this device will buzz and vibrate in his pocket as he walks around the class, he can walk right up to the student that has something on.. it works by detecting a variation of known R.F. frequencies that helps him decide on an LCD screen of the device what it could be, and then it has wide band detection of any R.F. generation.. as you know, most devices do generate some R.F. of some freq.. i've seen it in use and its on the market... all i can say is by his words, "it works very good" -- Real Programmers Do things like this. http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5 |
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