How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:45:56 -0800, "Dana"
wrote:


It's not my issue to claim detection of different devices
proves detection of an MP3 player recording.

I never said it can detect an MP3 player recording.
I said it can detect an MP3 player, or pretty much anything electronic.


The thread is about detecting an MP3 player.

Yep, and there are devices that can detect electronic devices.
How the OP uses that Information is up to him.





We have no reason to believe a scenario like the OP has (too
vaguely) posed,

Actually what he needs is a device to scan for electronic devices, and
they
exist already. How the OP handles the knowledge of such sweeps depends on
him.


I have never claimed "electronic devices" can't be detected.

You have been doing that this entire thread.
The OP needs a device that can detect electronic devices, he can get one for
under 1000 dollars. Now how he uses such a device is up to him.

How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

"Joey" wrote in message
...
On 13 Oct 2006, wrote:


Joey wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006, Aly wrote:

Joey wrote in message
...
[...]

Sorry for my rather unhelpful reply, I'm having one of my moments
where I only talk to microcontrollers.


No problems.

Seriously though. There's very little in world that's so
important. I've worked with people that would *record* meetings
thinking they were of vital importance when in actual truth, no one
could care less.

I guess it would just cause people to be more careful about what
they say. I'm unable to view those videos you've supplied as this
is a development machine without any clutter on it.

eBay could be a good place to buy such things though. All sorts of
stuff comes out of the AsiaPac.


This is to document something quite serious.

Are you the trying to be the documenter, or trying to avoid being
the documentee? Or both?


I don't want to be recorded.

But I would like to know if I can be detected if I do attempt to make a
recording.

Your last sentence is why "kony" won't get his "make&model"
for such a detector. Or any more of a technical description than
I have given him, of how they work.

I note that he isn't supplying the "Make&Model" of his
undetectable MP3 Recorder. He provides an argument
that no such detector could exist, based totally on his
theories of what is possible, but then complains that no
one will provide him with more than a basic theoretical
description of the workings of a device, that its makers,
sellers (usually the same people) and users, don't want
working details generally available. Counter-surveillance
devices are like alarm systems, you don't want to tell
anyone the details of how one works. No one, who
knows, is going to provide "kony" the "proof" he is
demanding.

Luck;
Ken

How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 18:01:47 +0100, Joey
wrote:

On 14 Oct 2006, kony wrote:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:37:24 -0800, "Dana"
wrote:

[...]

It's not my issue to claim detection of different devices
proves detection of an MP3 player recording. Rather, it is
your burden to be specific with the claim that it's possible
by showing even one reproducible example.

We have no reason to believe a scenario like the OP has (too
vaguely) posed, would allow identification of a device as an
MP3 player that is recording. Identifying the existence of
"some" kind of device, then a search uncovering this device
and a physical examination to determine that it is recording
(looking at the screen or lights) is another matter.


I can clarify whatever you are unsure about if it helps.


The specific scenario should have been, needed to be
mentioned at the opening of the thread. Because it wasn't,
the time spent on the thread wasn't very productive and many
have lost interest.

How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:40:38 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
wrote:


But I would like to know if I can be detected if I do attempt to make a
recording.

Your last sentence is why "kony" won't get his "make&model"
for such a detector. Or any more of a technical description than
I have given him, of how they work.

I would find any test of any existing piece of equipment, a
great start towards proving an MP3 player can be detected
(as an MP3 player, since it may not be enough to identify a
mere presence of an electronic device).



I note that he isn't supplying the "Make&Model" of his
undetectable MP3 Recorder.

Recall that I'd mentioned the issue of scenaro already.
What is or is not detectable depends on scenario. Can they
seize ALL unidentified devices? Will the person be in a
random or controlled environment? Indoors or out? Will the
person carrying on the conversation need have a concealed
detector that monitors in realtime, and at what distance, or
only an initial or point-of-entry scan? What other devices
are known to be present in the vicinity?

I have never suggested it was impossible to detect that
someone electronic *exists* in general. Pinpointing the
device, identifying it, or even finding that it exists in a
specific scenario, let alone that it's recording, is what I
dispute has not been proven or even reasonably suggested.

Randomly pick a small battery powered MP3 player. Remember
that I need not pick _ONE_ because such a concealed device
is not limited to being only ONE type of recording MP3
player, the detection equipment would have to be able to
detect any and (practically) all types of recorders, but not
detect any other common devices, not excessive false
positive alerts.

He provides an argument
that no such detector could exist, based totally on his
theories of what is possible,

Based on no details that are useful to discriminate what an
MP3 player is and it's operation in recording.

If the topic had been detecting a RF transmitter of some
sort, or a know class of substance like explosives, that is
a different matter. Both have a few known signatures.
So I suggest that until you can describe what the unique
signature is that is unique to recording MP3 players, there
is no way to detect them, and only them, selectively.

but then complains that no
one will provide him with more than a basic theoretical
description of the workings of a device, that its makers,
sellers (usually the same people) and users, don't want
working details generally available.

There is no basic theoretical description that has been
provided relating to an MP3 player- the whole purpose of the
thread. This is a key detail that cannot be overlooked.
That some generalized similar concept of "detecting" some
other thing is possible, can only be held true if there are
unique detectable, in the specific scenario, attributes
common only to MP3 players, or perhaps by extension, all
small digital recorders but not other devices.


Counter-surveillance
devices are like alarm systems, you don't want to tell
anyone the details of how one works. No one, who
knows, is going to provide "kony" the "proof" he is
demanding.

So what we have is a generalized concept of "it works for a
secret reason". Sorry but that is anything except a
reasonable argument, let alone proof of concept alone.

We have to have at least 3 things:

1) A specific, exact scenario.

2) A method for discriminating recording MP3 players from
everything else, in the exact scenario. Not some vague
concept of detecting semiconductors, a mere HF signal or
anything else that is not unique to a multitude of different
MP3 players.

3) A device that can reliably use that method in that
scenario.

#2 is the linchpin, #3 may indeed be possible after #2 is
resolved to #1. So it is with any purpose built device.

How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...

"Joey" wrote in message
...
On 13 Oct 2006, wrote:


Joey wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006, Aly wrote:

Joey wrote in message
...
[...]

Sorry for my rather unhelpful reply, I'm having one of my moments
where I only talk to microcontrollers.


No problems.

Seriously though. There's very little in world that's so
important. I've worked with people that would *record* meetings
thinking they were of vital importance when in actual truth, no one
could care less.

I guess it would just cause people to be more careful about what
they say. I'm unable to view those videos you've supplied as this
is a development machine without any clutter on it.

eBay could be a good place to buy such things though. All sorts of
stuff comes out of the AsiaPac.


This is to document something quite serious.

Are you the trying to be the documenter, or trying to avoid being
the documentee? Or both?


I don't want to be recorded.

But I would like to know if I can be detected if I do attempt to make a
recording.

Your last sentence is why "kony" won't get his "make&model"
for such a detector. Or any more of a technical description than
I have given him, of how they work.

I note that he isn't supplying the "Make&Model" of his
undetectable MP3 Recorder. He provides an argument
that no such detector could exist, based totally on his
theories of what is possible, but then complains that no
one will provide him with more than a basic theoretical
description of the workings of a device, that its makers,
sellers (usually the same people) and users, don't want
working details generally available. Counter-surveillance
devices are like alarm systems, you don't want to tell
anyone the details of how one works. No one, who
knows, is going to provide "kony" the "proof" he is
demanding.

And now we will see Kony saying he knew that there was no such device, and
that we were just spouting garbage.

How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

Many cellphones have dictophone capability. How do you tell if the cellphone
in the visitor's pocket is not recording? The phone could be also simply
connected to another remote one, which would do the actual recording.

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:48:32 -0800, "Dana"
wrote:


You man there actually is something which will detect MP3 recorders?

There are devices that can detect when electronic devices are being used.
There are devices that can be made that can detect almost any known
material
If said mp3 player is made of that material it can be detected.



Which is not entirely applicable, since plenty of
non-recorders are made of circuit boards, ICs & other
discretes, and some plastic. Cell phone and pager are two
quite common ones.

Detecting electronics devices in general, is it useful? We
dont know the exact scenario, what the result would be of a
positive detection but as above, cell phones and pagers
would tend to be caught and are going to be far more common
and innocuous than a recording device, though in the former
case, the phone may have recording capability too.

How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

So it can tell semiconductor junctions of an MP3 recorder from semiconductor
junctions of non-recording devices?

Th OP question was detection not *any* semiconductor device, but a MP3
recorder. By the way, the recorder doesn't have to be in that room. Enough
to have a connected cellphone in a pocket.


"Dana" wrote in message
...


Yeah, so what. There are devices that can detect semiconducter junctions.
MP3 players have semiconductor junctions, hence they can be detected.


Now how about the phones that can record?

They also have semiconductor junctions, hence they can also be detected.

How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

Hogwash.

MRI detects primirily concentration of hydrogen atoms. It requires quite
strong magnetic field with precise gradient. What you describe is using
different principles.

"Dana" wrote in message
...


Hogwash.
You seem not to understand what can be done with electronics.
There are some devices that use the priciples of a MRI and shrink it down
to
a hand held sized device to scan for explosives. Since the compounds in
explosives give off a unique signature after being exposed to a strong
magnetic field, that signature is then stored in memory. Now your sensor
emits a magnetic field, and the reciever looks for the signature of the
explosives.
So it is only a matter of expanding your signature library, and your
receiver can be programmed to look for pretty much anything.
This is only one of many new tools that are out.
The semiconductor junction detector has been out for around 30 years.

How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

"Alexander Grigoriev" wrote in message
link.net...
So it can tell semiconductor junctions of an MP3 recorder from
semiconductor
junctions of non-recording devices?

Th OP question was detection not *any* semiconductor device, but a MP3
recorder. By the way, the recorder doesn't have to be in that room. Enough
to have a connected cellphone in a pocket.

Yep, and that can be detected.
What you do with the knowledge that the person has an electronic device that
may or may not record is up to you and what you want to do.

How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
 

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:01:06 -0800, "Dana"
wrote:


"Alexander Grigoriev" wrote in message
hlink.net...
So it can tell semiconductor junctions of an MP3 recorder from
semiconductor
junctions of non-recording devices?

Th OP question was detection not *any* semiconductor device, but a MP3
recorder. By the way, the recorder doesn't have to be in that room. Enough
to have a connected cellphone in a pocket.

Yep, and that can be detected.

By that you must specifically mean the cell phone.
Clear details matter a lot.

What you do with the knowledge that the person has an electronic device that
may or may not record is up to you and what you want to do.

It's essentially useless information because in modern
societies every other person has a cell phone or beeper, MP3
player or whatever. One could not conduct business in an
environment where they had to make some random speculation
every time they came across the existence of an unknown
electronic device, but as importantly, it still has not even
been established than in any specific scenario, the MP3
recorder would be detected at all. yes it's possible to
detect that an object exists, but it's also possible to have
a scenario where the testing method doesn't detect it.