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How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice
recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"Joey" wrote in message ... Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. Tad paranoid here. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. Yep But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? Close. There are devices that are around that do exactly what you want. Security firms and such use them to verify a room is bug free, etc. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote
Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. In practice that was always a lot easier to say than to do. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? In theory any electronic device will produce some EM so at least in theory that can be detected. In practice there is so much of that stuff in any normal room anyway that its just not feasible. Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? Fraid not. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:23:22 +0100, Joey
wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. Ok, why do you care? Don't have sensitive conversations with anyone you can't trust, if you're going to be saying anything that shouldn't be recorded. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. Doubtful, and not worth the bother when you could just scan them or search them physically. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Scan them or search them. What makes you think you should detect it? Don't they have a right to a recording of any conversation they're participating in? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Do you mean "wild hypothetical way that some future technology or extremely expensive equipment and controlled environment could detect", or do you mean, practically speaking? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? .... and you're discriminate this from everything else, all other HF noise, how? Get a baseline maybe, but noise is random unless a controlled environment. You just need to have everyone strip down nude and then do body cavity searches, X-Rays, exploratory surgery, then never let them leave so it doesn't really matter if anything was recorded so long as the environment has sufficient RF shielding. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote in :
Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? There probably is a little electro magnetic energy leaving the device, but what frequency would you try to find it on? Other electronic things such as computers, printers, etc in the office most likely emit far more RF noise than the MP3 device. It would be hard to find it. Eventually, the power would run down and the thing would stop recording. Someone would have to come by again and pick up the recorder. So your best bet is to be on the lookout for any suspicious recorder placement and pick up activity. Or just buy as stereo for your office and play it real loud all the time. Maybe belch and fart a lot too. SC |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote in :
But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? That should be the least of your worries. What can you do to stop "them"? One word: 'Faraday cage hats'. -- ybbxvatyvxrnobeantnvayvivatyvxrnurergvpyvfgravatgb neguheyrrerpbeqfznxv atnyylbhesevraqfsrryfbthvyglnobhggurveplavpvfznaqg urerfgbsgurvetrareng vbaabgriragurtbireazragnertbaanfgbclbhabjohgnerlbh ernqlgborurnegoebxra |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Joey wrote:
Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? Not really. You could maybe detect that it was turned on with an RF scanner. But if it is low power enough (most MP3 players are, since they are optimised for that) and well shielded, you would likely get nothing in today's RF polluted environment. In addition the attacker may just add some more shielding to be sure. I think you can basically forget about this, unless you can take the devices away from people. Arno |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:08:40 GMT, Slow Code wrote:
Maybe belch and fart a lot too. Or a noisy computer placed close to where the suspected mp3 recorder would be. I have an ancient 286 whose 80MB hard drive sounds like it's about to take off and its fan is second only to vacuum cleaner on the noise level. -- When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote:
Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? 3 AM with the right equipment it would be findable , now are you serious or just another one of "them"? |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote:
Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? not sure if you could find it with a metal detector, but probably NT |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
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How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Picking up any signal is out of question. However, if you are a
paranoid suspecting someone is out to get you by recording, try this one: When she gets in your room/office, sing some line of song, like, "Hellooo, is it me you're looking for? I can see in your eyes..." etc. Stop kind of suddenly, look at her in the eye, and say, "If someone recorded that song wouldn't it play back real nice?" She'll know you'd caught her at her game and would blush or tremble or something. Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"Joey" wrote in message ... Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? What is done is to generate a pattern of sound, only part of which is audible, and then detect the low level IF and RF that any sound equipment emits. Then follow the signal detected to its source. Luck; Ken |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On 09 Oct 2006, kony wrote:
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:23:22 +0100, Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. Ok, why do you care? Don't have sensitive conversations with anyone you can't trust, if you're going to be saying anything that shouldn't be recorded. I say things in my conversation which i do not want to be broadcast in the public media. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. Doubtful, and not worth the bother when you could just scan them or search them physically. You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable! But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Scan them or search them. What makes you think you should detect it? Don't they have a right to a recording of any conversation they're participating in? They have the right to record themselves. I have the right not to have my words broadcast. Unfortunately obtaining redress can be expensive. So prevention is beter than cure. Is there some transmission which could be detected? Do you mean "wild hypothetical way that some future technology or extremely expensive equipment and controlled environment could detect", or do you mean, practically speaking? The latter. I am talking practicalitites ere. Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? ... and you're discriminate this from everything else, all other HF noise, how? Get a baseline maybe, but noise is random unless a controlled environment. If necessary I could have my PC turned off and my phone put further away. But is there any leakage from solid MP3 recorders? You just need to have everyone strip down nude and then do body cavity searches, X-Rays, exploratory surgery, then never let them leave so it doesn't really matter if anything was recorded so long as the environment has sufficient RF shielding. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On 10 Oct 2006, Slow Code wrote:
Joey wrote in : Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? There probably is a little electro magnetic energy leaving the device, but what frequency would you try to find it on? Other electronic things such as computers, printers, etc in the office most likely emit far more RF noise than the MP3 device. It would be hard to find it. Eventually, the power would run down and the thing would stop recording. Someone would have to come by again and pick up the recorder. So your best bet is to be on the lookout for any suspicious recorder placement and pick up activity. Or just buy as stereo for your office and play it real loud all the time. Maybe belch and fart a lot too. SC The situation I describe is where the MP3 plater/recorder is carried by the person. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On 10 Oct 2006, atec77 ""atec77 \"@ hotmail.com" wrote:
Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? 3 AM with the right equipment it would be findable , now are you serious or just another one of "them"? Nope, I am not one of "them". This is very much for real. What is "3 AM". |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"Joey" wrote in message
Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? On 10 Oct 2006, Ken Maltby wrote: What is done is to generate a pattern of sound, only part of which is audible, and then detect the low level IF and RF that any sound equipment emits. Then follow the signal detected to its source. Luck; Ken Generate a pattern of sound part of which is inaudible? IF and RF? |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote in message ... Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. Your only real option is to hold your meetings in the middle of field, and for everyone to be naked. Aside from that, unless you work for MI5 or have alot of money then the above would be far easier. If it was that important you wouldn't be asking the question here. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote
kony wrote Joey wrote Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. Ok, why do you care? Don't have sensitive conversations with anyone you can't trust, if you're going to be saying anything that shouldn't be recorded. I say things in my conversation which i do not want to be broadcast in the public media. Then you have a problem for which there is no solution given the other detail below. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. Doubtful, and not worth the bother when you could just scan them or search them physically. You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don't work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable! Then you have a problem. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Scan them or search them. What makes you think you should detect it? Don't they have a right to a recording of any conversation they're participating in? They have the right to record themselves. I have the right not to have my words broadcast. Unfortunately obtaining redress can be expensive. So prevention is beter than cure. Sure, but it just isnt practical. Is there some transmission which could be detected? Do you mean "wild hypothetical way that some future technology or extremely expensive equipment and controlled environment could detect", or do you mean, practically speaking? The latter. I am talking practicalitites ere. The short story is that it isnt practical to do what you want to do. Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? ... and you're discriminate this from everything else, all other HF noise, how? Get a baseline maybe, but noise is random unless a controlled environment. If necessary I could have my PC turned off and my phone put further away. Wouldnt be enough given the minimal leakage from a decently designed solid state MP3 recorder. In spades with one that has been designed to be undetectable. But is there any leakage from solid MP3 recorders? Corse there is, but the level will be so low that you wont be able to find it with all the other stuff around that is radiating, even if you turn off everything in your house when a visitor shows up. You just need to have everyone strip down nude and then do body cavity searches, X-Rays, exploratory surgery, then never let them leave so it doesn't really matter if anything was recorded so long as the environment has sufficient RF shielding. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote: If necessary I could have my PC turned off and my phone put further away. But is there any leakage from solid MP3 recorders? I'm sure there is a tiny bit, but it cannot be much from such a small device operating off very low voltage and the frequency is an unknown variable. it goes back to the idea about a controlled environment and very expensive equipment, that you'll probably have more background noise than what's coming from the recorder, to find it would entail what amounts to an active search. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote in :
You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable! Would an all nude work environment be acceptable? It would make hiding such devices difficult so you wouldn't have to do anything untoward like searching people. -- ybbxvatyvxrnobeantnvayvivatyvxrnurergvpyvfgravatgb neguheyrrerpbeqfznxv atnyylbhesevraqfsrryfbthvyglnobhggurveplavpvfznaqg urerfgbsgurvetrareng vbaabgriragurtbireazragnertbaanfgbclbhabjohgnerlbh ernqlgborurnegoebxra |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote:
On 10 Oct 2006, atec77 ""atec77 \"@ hotmail.com" wrote: Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? 3 AM with the right equipment it would be findable , now are you serious or just another one of "them"? Nope, I am not one of "them". This is very much for real. What is "3 AM". Your kidding ? do you read analogue clocks ? |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote: You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable! Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a potential recorder from some other device, object, etc. If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure either (depending on laws in your locale). If private property, the other party may still refuse a search and seizure attempt. Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way. Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make people suspect you have something to hide and put your activities under more scrutiny. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:54:06 +0100, Joey wrote:
What is "3 AM". On digital clock, it would read 3:00 and the PM indicator would be off. On analoug clock, the big hand would be pointing at 12 and small hand at 3 and outside should be still dark (no sun) -- When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On 10 Oct 2006, Impmon wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:54:06 +0100, Joey wrote: What is "3 AM". On digital clock, it would read 3:00 and the PM indicator would be off. On analoug clock, the big hand would be pointing at 12 and small hand at 3 and outside should be still dark (no sun) What are you doing? Water divining with the twig split 90 degrees? Or searching for MP3 recorder output with the birch twig? |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On 10 Oct 2006, Aly wrote:
Joey wrote in message ... Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. Your only real option is to hold your meetings in the middle of field, and for everyone to be naked. Aside from that, unless you work for MI5 or have alot of money then the above would be far easier. If it was that important you wouldn't be asking the question here.g Is that right? Hear this radio programme (under 30 mins). Use whichever protocol works best for you, both are the same. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/...eingbugged.ram rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/radio4/science/beingbugged.ra |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey wrote: You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable! Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a potential recorder from some other device, object, etc. If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure either (depending on laws in your locale). If private property, the other party may still refuse a search and seizure attempt. Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way. Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make people suspect you have something to hide and put your activities under more scrutiny. Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its operation. OK. Thanks. Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer available. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote in :
On 10 Oct 2006, Slow Code wrote: Joey wrote in : Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? There probably is a little electro magnetic energy leaving the device, but what frequency would you try to find it on? Other electronic things such as computers, printers, etc in the office most likely emit far more RF noise than the MP3 device. It would be hard to find it. Eventually, the power would run down and the thing would stop recording. Someone would have to come by again and pick up the recorder. So your best bet is to be on the lookout for any suspicious recorder placement and pick up activity. Or just buy a stereo for your office and play it real loud all the time. Maybe belch and fart a lot too. SC The situation I describe is where the MP3 plater/recorder is carried by the person. Well in that case, the farting and belching should work to keep them away and presto, no recordings, but you'll have to live with the stinky smell. SC |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Slow Code wrote: Joey wrote in : On 10 Oct 2006, Slow Code wrote: Well in that case, the farting and belching should work to keep them away and presto, no recordings, but you'll have to live with the stinky smell. help ham radio SC turn in your license SC |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"Joey" wrote in message ... "Joey" wrote in message Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? On 10 Oct 2006, Ken Maltby wrote: What is done is to generate a pattern of sound, only part of which is audible, and then detect the low level IF and RF that any sound equipment emits. Then follow the signal detected to its source. Luck; Ken Generate a pattern of sound part of which is inaudible? Acoustic energy then, what the microphone/audio detection picks up. (It will cover more frequencies that humans can hear.) The pattern is on at a particular time then off, it varies in certain ways that will enable further analysis of any: IF and RF? Intermediate Frequencies (IF) or Radio Frequencies (RF) given off by a device reacting to the pattern of sound. If there is any IF or RF detected that corresponds/matches the on off times of the pattern of sound, you know there is a device responding to the sound in the room. A more sophisticated analysis of the detected response to the pattern, can provide a great deal of information about the device detected. That would be beyond the scope of your question, and your security clearance, as well. Luck; Ken |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"Joey" wrote in message ... On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey wrote: You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable! Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a potential recorder from some other device, object, etc. If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure either (depending on laws in your locale). If private property, the other party may still refuse a search and seizure attempt. Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way. Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make people suspect you have something to hide and put your activities under more scrutiny. Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its operation. OK. Thanks. Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer available. It should not come as a surprise, that security concerns that deal in high level technological detection devices, don't advertise to the general public that much. Search harder. Luck; Ken |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"Ken Maltby" wrote in message ... "Joey" wrote in message ... On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey wrote: You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is considered acceptable! Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a potential recorder from some other device, object, etc. If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure either (depending on laws in your locale). If private property, the other party may still refuse a search and seizure attempt. Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way. Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make people suspect you have something to hide and put your activities under more scrutiny. Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its operation. OK. Thanks. Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer available. It should not come as a surprise, that security concerns that deal in high level technological detection devices, don't advertise to the general public that much. Search harder. I hinted at that a couple of days ago. It has been amusing watching some of the replies from some of the people here. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:36:48 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
wrote: Acoustic energy then, what the microphone/audio detection picks up. (It will cover more frequencies that humans can hear.) The pattern is on at a particular time then off, it varies in certain ways that will enable further analysis of any: IF and RF? Intermediate Frequencies (IF) or Radio Frequencies (RF) given off by a device reacting to the pattern of sound. If there is any IF or RF detected that corresponds/matches the on off times of the pattern of sound, you know there is a device responding to the sound in the room. A more sophisticated analysis of the detected response to the pattern, can provide a great deal of information about the device detected. That would be beyond the scope of your question, and your security clearance, as well. I'm not so sure this technique will work with an IC that has constant current, continual encoding of even silence as a typical MP3 player/recorder is likely to use. There might be a theoretical difference but one far more difficult to measure than even anything at all from the device. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"kony" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:36:48 -0500, "Ken Maltby" wrote: Acoustic energy then, what the microphone/audio detection picks up. (It will cover more frequencies that humans can hear.) The pattern is on at a particular time then off, it varies in certain ways that will enable further analysis of any: IF and RF? Intermediate Frequencies (IF) or Radio Frequencies (RF) given off by a device reacting to the pattern of sound. If there is any IF or RF detected that corresponds/matches the on off times of the pattern of sound, you know there is a device responding to the sound in the room. A more sophisticated analysis of the detected response to the pattern, can provide a great deal of information about the device detected. That would be beyond the scope of your question, and your security clearance, as well. I'm not so sure this technique will work with an IC that has constant current, continual encoding of even silence as a typical MP3 player/recorder is likely to use. There might be a theoretical difference but one far more difficult to measure than even anything at all from the device. You would be surprised at what is being done. As one of my techs used to say. "Noise, what Noise". But then this stuff tends to be kind of pricey. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
"kony" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:36:48 -0500, "Ken Maltby" wrote: Acoustic energy then, what the microphone/audio detection picks up. (It will cover more frequencies that humans can hear.) The pattern is on at a particular time then off, it varies in certain ways that will enable further analysis of any: IF and RF? Intermediate Frequencies (IF) or Radio Frequencies (RF) given off by a device reacting to the pattern of sound. If there is any IF or RF detected that corresponds/matches the on off times of the pattern of sound, you know there is a device responding to the sound in the room. A more sophisticated analysis of the detected response to the pattern, can provide a great deal of information about the device detected. That would be beyond the scope of your question, and your security clearance, as well. I'm not so sure this technique will work with an IC that has constant current, continual encoding of even silence as a typical MP3 player/recorder is likely to use. There might be a theoretical difference but one far more difficult to measure than even anything at all from the device. You know how an IC gives off heat in relation to how hard it is working, ("constant current" is a myth) heat is only one part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Switching devices certainly produce as much "noise" when they operate as analog devices, more in most cases. We have devices that can detect very, very low wattage signals. Luck; Ken |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Impmon wrote in news:b59oi2tuh78itfnupp6n0j04teksmeeuqp@
4ax.com: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:54:06 +0100, Joey wrote: What is "3 AM". On digital clock, it would read 3:00 and the PM indicator would be off. On analoug clock, the big hand would be pointing at 12 and small hand at 3 and outside should be still dark (no sun) Not very helpful for those of us who are residing in prison with no access to an outside window. -- ybbxvatyvxrnobeantnvayvivatyvxrnurergvpyvfgravatgb neguheyrrerpbeqfznxv atnyylbhesevraqfsrryfbthvyglnobhggurveplavpvfznaqg urerfgbsgurvetrareng vbaabgriragurtbireazragnertbaanfgbclbhabjohgnerlbh ernqlgborurnegoebxra |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Joey wrote in message
... On 10 Oct 2006, Aly wrote: Is that right? Hear this radio programme (under 30 mins). Use whichever protocol works best for you, both are the same. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/...eingbugged.ram rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/radio4/science/beingbugged.ra Sorry for my rather unhelpful reply, I'm having one of my moments where I only talk to microcontrollers. Seriously though. There's very little in world that's so important. I've worked with people that would *record* meetings thinking they were of vital importance when in actual truth, no one could care less. I guess it would just cause people to be more careful about what they say. I'm unable to view those videos you've supplied as this is a development machine without any clutter on it. eBay could be a good place to buy such things though. All sorts of stuff comes out of the AsiaPac. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Jamie t wrote:
Arno Wagner wrote: In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? Not really. You could maybe detect that it was turned on with an RF scanner. But if it is low power enough (most MP3 players are, since they are optimised for that) and well shielded, you would likely get nothing in today's RF polluted environment. In addition the attacker may just add some more shielding to be sure. I think you can basically forget about this, unless you can take the devices away from people. Arno i have seen a device used by an electrical instructor at a trade school. he does not like any Cell, recorders or electronic devices active while in his class. this device will buzz and vibrate in his pocket as he walks around the class, he can walk right up to the student that has something on.. it works by detecting a variation of known R.F. frequencies that helps him decide on an LCD screen of the device what it could be, and then it has wide band detection of any R.F. generation.. as you know, most devices do generate some R.F. of some freq.. i've seen it in use and its on the market... all i can say is by his words, "it works very good" That sounds like BS to me. Of course cellphones are very easy to detect that way, and I expect that is what he is showing off. Forget about non-woreless devices. They have several orders of magnitude less RF emanations. This guy is likely demonstrating with cellphones and then claiming he can detect the other things without ever demonstrating. Arno |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Jamie t wrote:
Arno Wagner wrote: In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? Not really. You could maybe detect that it was turned on with an RF scanner. But if it is low power enough (most MP3 players are, since they are optimised for that) and well shielded, you would likely get nothing in today's RF polluted environment. In addition the attacker may just add some more shielding to be sure. I think you can basically forget about this, unless you can take the devices away from people. Arno i have seen a device used by an electrical instructor at a trade school. he does not like any Cell, recorders or electronic devices active while in his class. this device will buzz and vibrate in his pocket as he walks around the class, he can walk right up to the student that has something on.. it works by detecting a variation of known R.F. frequencies that helps him decide on an LCD screen of the device what it could be, and then it has wide band detection of any R.F. generation.. as you know, most devices do generate some R.F. of some freq.. i've seen it in use and its on the market... all i can say is by his words, "it works very good" Trouble is that he cant know about the devices his doesnt detect. |
How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]
Arno Wagner wrote:
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Joey wrote: Suppose someone visited your office or home and tried to make a voice recording using a hidden recorder. If they used a older-style dictation machine based on tape then you could detect the electromagnetic transmissions from the dictation machine when it was recording. But how would you detect if someone was secretly recording with an MP3 player that recorded to flash memory? Is there some transmission which could be detected? Perhaps some low power ultra high frequency from chip refresh cycles? Not really. You could maybe detect that it was turned on with an RF scanner. But if it is low power enough (most MP3 players are, since they are optimised for that) and well shielded, you would likely get nothing in today's RF polluted environment. In addition the attacker may just add some more shielding to be sure. I think you can basically forget about this, unless you can take the devices away from people. Arno i have seen a device used by an electrical instructor at a trade school. he does not like any Cell, recorders or electronic devices active while in his class. this device will buzz and vibrate in his pocket as he walks around the class, he can walk right up to the student that has something on.. it works by detecting a variation of known R.F. frequencies that helps him decide on an LCD screen of the device what it could be, and then it has wide band detection of any R.F. generation.. as you know, most devices do generate some R.F. of some freq.. i've seen it in use and its on the market... all i can say is by his words, "it works very good" -- Real Programmers Do things like this. http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5 |
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