On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote:

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote:


You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t
work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is
considered acceptable!


Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have
them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of
course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a
potential recorder from some other device, object, etc.

If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to
determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if
recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become
illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on
private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure
either (depending on laws in your locale). If private
property, the other party may still refuse a search and
seizure attempt.

Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at
entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning
on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that
you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same
guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of
importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted
not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way.

Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make
people suspect you have something to hide and put your
activities under more scrutiny.


Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its
operation. OK. Thanks.

Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape
recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer
available.

"Joey" wrote in message
...
On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote:

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote:


You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t
work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is
considered acceptable!


Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have
them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of
course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a
potential recorder from some other device, object, etc.

If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to
determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if
recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become
illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on
private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure
either (depending on laws in your locale). If private
property, the other party may still refuse a search and
seizure attempt.

Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at
entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning
on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that
you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same
guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of
importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted
not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way.

Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make
people suspect you have something to hide and put your
activities under more scrutiny.


Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its
operation. OK. Thanks.

Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape
recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer
available.

It should not come as a surprise, that security concerns that
deal in high level technological detection devices, don't
advertise to the general public that much. Search harder.

Luck;
Ken

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...

"Joey" wrote in message
...
On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote:

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote:


You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I don;'t
work in the sort of environment where that kind of behaviour is
considered acceptable!


Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have
them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of
course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a
potential recorder from some other device, object, etc.

If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to
determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if
recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become
illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on
private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure
either (depending on laws in your locale). If private
property, the other party may still refuse a search and
seizure attempt.

Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at
entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning
on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that
you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same
guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of
importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted
not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way.

Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make
people suspect you have something to hide and put your
activities under more scrutiny.


Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable during its
operation. OK. Thanks.

Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for tape
recorder detection while many of the the older devices are no longer
available.

It should not come as a surprise, that security concerns that
deal in high level technological detection devices, don't
advertise to the general public that much. Search harder.


I hinted at that a couple of days ago.
It has been amusing watching some of the replies from some of the people
here.

On 11 Oct 2006, Dana wrote:


"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...

"Joey" wrote in message
...
On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote:

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote:


You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I
don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of
behaviour is considered acceptable!


Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have
them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of
course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a
potential recorder from some other device, object, etc.

If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to
determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if
recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become
illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on
private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure
either (depending on laws in your locale). If private
property, the other party may still refuse a search and
seizure attempt.

Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at
entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning
on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that
you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same
guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of
importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted
not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way.

Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make
people suspect you have something to hide and put your
activities under more scrutiny.


Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable
during its operation. OK. Thanks.

Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for
tape recorder detection while many of the the older devices are
no longer available.

It should not come as a surprise, that security concerns that
deal in high level technological detection devices, don't
advertise to the general public that much. Search harder.


I hinted at that a couple of days ago.
It has been amusing watching some of the replies from some of the
people here.




You man there actually is something which will detect MP3 recorders?

"Joey" wrote in message
...
On 11 Oct 2006, Dana wrote:


"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...

"Joey" wrote in message
...
On 10 Oct 2006, kony wrote:

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:51:51 +0100, Joey
wrote:


You say, "search them physically"? I have to tell you that I
don;'t work in the sort of environment where that kind of
behaviour is considered acceptable!


Then the only practical alternative remaining is to have
them consent to and go through a metal detector, and of
course it has to be actively manned to discriminate a
potential recorder from some other device, object, etc.

If you find what might be an MP player, you won't be able to
determine if it's recording, rather than playing, or if
recording off the radio. Unless MP3 players become
illegal devices, or at least clearly posted as banned on
private premises, you can't justify a search or seizure
either (depending on laws in your locale). If private
property, the other party may still refuse a search and
seizure attempt.

Even scanning for such a device's radiated energy at
entrance to an area, that wouldn't prevent them from turning
on the device later. Unless you have the expectation that
you can seize such equipment, you should follow the same
guidelines you should have otherwise- not saying anything of
importance in the presence of someone who can't be trusted
not to repeat, reproduce, etc., in any way.

Ultimately going to such extra lengths will tend to make
people suspect you have something to hide and put your
activities under more scrutiny.


Thanks Kony. So the MP3 recorder is essentially undetectable
during its operation. OK. Thanks.

Maybe that explains why I can't find any follow-on products for
tape recorder detection while many of the the older devices are
no longer available.

It should not come as a surprise, that security concerns that
deal in high level technological detection devices, don't
advertise to the general public that much. Search harder.


I hinted at that a couple of days ago.
It has been amusing watching some of the replies from some of the
people here.




You man there actually is something which will detect MP3 recorders?

There are devices that can detect when electronic devices are being used.
There are devices that can be made that can detect almost any known material
If said mp3 player is made of that material it can be detected.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:48:32 -0800, "Dana"
wrote:


You man there actually is something which will detect MP3 recorders?

There are devices that can detect when electronic devices are being used.
There are devices that can be made that can detect almost any known material
If said mp3 player is made of that material it can be detected.



Which is not entirely applicable, since plenty of
non-recorders are made of circuit boards, ICs & other
discretes, and some plastic. Cell phone and pager are two
quite common ones.

Detecting electronics devices in general, is it useful? We
dont know the exact scenario, what the result would be of a
positive detection but as above, cell phones and pagers
would tend to be caught and are going to be far more common
and innocuous than a recording device, though in the former
case, the phone may have recording capability too.

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:48:32 -0800, "Dana"
wrote:


You man there actually is something which will detect MP3 recorders?

There are devices that can detect when electronic devices are being used.
There are devices that can be made that can detect almost any known
material
If said mp3 player is made of that material it can be detected.



Which is not entirely applicable,

Sure it is

since plenty of
non-recorders are made of circuit boards, ICs & other
discretes, and some plastic. Cell phone and pager are two
quite common ones.

Yep, and all are detectable, and all have signatures.

Detecting electronics devices in general, is it useful?

Depends on who you ask
The OP is not the only one who wants to ensure no one is able to record
conversations, or hear conversations they should not be hearing.

We
dont know the exact scenario,

He gave the scenario.

what the result would be of a
positive detection but as above, cell phones and pagers
would tend to be caught and are going to be far more common
and innocuous than a recording device, though in the former
case, the phone may have recording capability too.

True enough, but the technology is there to do what is being requested. Now
if the OP can afford it, or even obtain it is a different issue.

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:48:32 -0800, "Dana"
wrote:


You man there actually is something which will detect MP3 recorders?

There are devices that can detect when electronic devices are being used.
There are devices that can be made that can detect almost any known
material
If said mp3 player is made of that material it can be detected.



Which is not entirely applicable, since plenty of
non-recorders are made of circuit boards, ICs & other
discretes, and some plastic. Cell phone and pager are two
quite common ones.

And what is a common item to circuit boards, IC's, cell phones, pagers, MP3
players, etc.
There are devices made to detect the presence of semiconductors, and these
have been out for ages.
And now with the war on terror going on, you would not believe what kind of
sensors they are coming up with.
Minor modifications of some of these units would not be very difficult to
detect a mere MP3 in someones pocket.
But then these would not be cheap either, if you can even get one.


Detecting electronics devices in general, is it useful? We
dont know the exact scenario, what the result would be of a
positive detection but as above, cell phones and pagers
would tend to be caught and are going to be far more common
and innocuous than a recording device, though in the former
case, the phone may have recording capability too.

Many cellphones have dictophone capability. How do you tell if the cellphone
in the visitor's pocket is not recording? The phone could be also simply
connected to another remote one, which would do the actual recording.

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:48:32 -0800, "Dana"
wrote:


You man there actually is something which will detect MP3 recorders?

There are devices that can detect when electronic devices are being used.
There are devices that can be made that can detect almost any known
material
If said mp3 player is made of that material it can be detected.



Which is not entirely applicable, since plenty of
non-recorders are made of circuit boards, ICs & other
discretes, and some plastic. Cell phone and pager are two
quite common ones.

Detecting electronics devices in general, is it useful? We
dont know the exact scenario, what the result would be of a
positive detection but as above, cell phones and pagers
would tend to be caught and are going to be far more common
and innocuous than a recording device, though in the former
case, the phone may have recording capability too.

In article , Kony wrote:
Which is not entirely applicable, since plenty of
non-recorders are made of circuit boards, ICs & other
discretes, and some plastic. Cell phone and pager are two
quite common ones.

More to the point, since someone was talking about an
office-like setting, would be things like SCR (triode) dimmer switches
built into the walls of the room, for perfectly good reasons. The
phrase is "false positive", and if anything they're even more corrosive
of ones confidence in the usability of a detection system than are
false negatives.
(Had a bad week last week with a poison gas detector system
going off every couple of hours. Every false positive meant that I had
to kit up with the breathing apparatus and go to check the situation
out.)

--
Aidan Karley, FGS
Aberdeen, Scotland
Written at Sun, 15 Oct 2006 20:46 +0100, but posted later.