"DaveC" wrote in message
al.net...
Cell phone usage is restricted on all domestic commercial flights by the
FAA,
so the flight attendant keeps telling me.

I seem to recall that this wasn't so, early in cellular history. Weren't
we
able to use cell phones on flights, long ago?

Is cell phone usage also restricted on private jets, etc. for similar
reasons?

So my question... what is the technical reason for restriction of cell
phone
us on commercial flights? Is this reason valid, technically? Or is it
simply
an excuse to force anyone who needs to make a call to use the airline's
on-board phones (and pay their outrageous rates)?

Oh good. Let's list all the reasons why cell phones belong in airplanes:

1) Airlines in bankrupty which (and I say this with enormous sarcasm) has NO
effect on the morale of people who should be happy, like mechanics

2) A random selection of pilots who partied way too late the night before

3) Sky marshalls who saunter aboard like what's-his-name from Miami Vice,
thereby making it perfectly clear who to strangle if you're a hijacker and
need a gun.

4) Passengers who think flying is a convenient excuse to get plastered
within 15 minutes of takeoff and mouth off to the crew.

5) People who've lived on potato chips and cheesecake since birth, but think
they shouldn't have to buy two seats to contain their lard, and end up
flowing all over your for 4 hours.

6) Air traffic control computers which are, in many cases, antiques.

7) Morons who will look right at you while you're listening to quiet music
with your eyes closed and begin telling you their life story.

8) Fools who SLAM their seats backwards within seconds of the warning lights
being turned off, and pretend they're instantly asleep?

On top of all this, you think there should be lots of cell phones in use on
airplanes? I've got news for you: Do that, and it'll be more comfortable to
take a bus through a Central American jungle with goats & pigs roaming the
aisles. I don't know how old you are, but there was actually a time when
flying was comfortable and enjoyable.

Spike wrote:

PCS is a marketing term invented by cellular
carriers. Both 800 and 1900 Mhz are still
"cellular." PCS originally meant Personal
Communications Services which was a term
used even with old analog via touch-tone
before there ever existed 1900 Mhz "Cellular."
The system could not operate with just one cell because
if everyone was on the same site they would
interefere with one another. More profound
than that, but a cell-phone is still cellular
whether on so-called "PCS" or 800 Mhz
bands.

Not according to the FCC, and they (literally) make the rules and the definitions.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 03:10:28 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

I don't know how old you are, but there was actually a time when
flying was comfortable and enjoyable.

And expensive!

In 1958, I left my job in Frankfurt and looked at modes of
transportation home. I got a ticket on the Holland-America line for
$278. An airplane would have been $400--one-way!

To translate into millennium dollars, multiply by ten.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 03:10:28 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

I don't know how old you are, but there was actually a time when
flying was comfortable and enjoyable.

And expensive!

In 1958, I left my job in Frankfurt and looked at modes of
transportation home. I got a ticket on the Holland-America line for
$278. An airplane would have been $400--one-way!

To translate into millennium dollars, multiply by ten.

I dunno....my dad paid for it when I was 12 years old. :-) About the only
negative thing I remember was that the airlines were silly enough to serve
peas, which made for a bit of a mess on bumpy flights.

Best memory - 1987: My flight from Pittsburgh to Rochester NY was delayed by
an hour due to crazy summer weather. When we finally boarded, the pilot came
out of the cockpit and addressed the passengers. He said "Sorry about the
delay, but there were thunderstorms. They've passed, but it's still pretty
turbulent. I'll give you a choice. I can avoid 98% of the turbulence and
we'll be in Rochester around 8:30. Or, I can go through the bumps and it'll
be about 15 minutes quicker. The 2nd choice could be a little unnerving, but
nothing we're not trained for and the plane's not built for. How about a
show of hands - who wants choice A? And choice B?" Choice B won. We got home
faster. :-)

Spike wrote:
PCS is a marketing term invented by cellular
carriers. Both 800 and 1900 Mhz are still
"cellular.

Not when you are talking about FCC rules. For regulatory purposes,
cellular specifically refers to 47 CFR 22 Subpart H which covers the
800MHz (AMPS) band. PCS is governed by 47 CFR 24.

Actually it could work very well, and I have seen this proposal from
several different sources. The Idea is to install a low power cell
phone tower into the airliner.

As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is
dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer
you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why
you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in
the boondocks.

By installing the tower in the aircraft you are only a few hundred
feet from the tower (at the most). The Cell phones will get an
excellent signal from it and will drop to the lowest transmit power
setting, Thus the interference with towers on the ground should be
minimal.

I am not an expert on these, I am just repeating how it was explained
to me.

Brian

"Morgans" wrote in message ...
"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
I noticed on the evening news the other night that someone is trying to
get
a modular mobile "cell tower" approved that would be installed in
commercial
aircraft so that passengers can use their own mobile phones. It will be
interesting to see how the FCC and FAA handle this one.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


Still won't work. The frequency the cell in the air is on, will be hitting
dozens of towers on the ground, making them unable to use that frequency for
other users on the land.

Brian Case wrote:


As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is
dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer
you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why
you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in
the boondocks.

The cellular phone does use an adaptive power control (it's not tied to
the signal strength bar).

The problem is that even at mimimal power, if you're sitting close to
the window, you can be heard equally well by a large number of cells
over the system. There's nothing magic that they can do to stop this
short of rf shielding the aircraft windows somehow.

"Brian Case" wrote in message
om...
Actually it could work very well, and I have seen this proposal from
several different sources. The Idea is to install a low power cell
phone tower into the airliner.

As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is
dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer
you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why
you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in
the boondocks.

By installing the tower in the aircraft you are only a few hundred
feet from the tower (at the most). The Cell phones will get an
excellent signal from it and will drop to the lowest transmit power
setting, Thus the interference with towers on the ground should be
minimal.

I am not an expert on these, I am just repeating how it was explained
to me.

Brian
I could see the possibilities of strong enough signal not reaching the
ground to cause problems, but......

Which company (Of the multitudes) will you have to belong to, to get your
phone to work? How will the plane's system communicate with the ground? By
cell tower? g
--
Jim in NC


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.774 / Virus Database: 521 - Release Date: 10/7/2004

The only thing that I see wrong with this is that the cell "tower" needs
to connect to the wired phone system. We know that it can't be
hardwired, that would be one hell of a long cable! So, as the "tower"
needs to transmit and receive (transceiver) from other transceivers on
the ground that are hardwired to the phone system. You can put the
ground transceivers on a different frequency pairs, but that's a whole
new world wide system!

Brian Case wrote:

Actually it could work very well, and I have seen this proposal from
several different sources. The Idea is to install a low power cell
phone tower into the airliner.

As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is
dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer
you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why
you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in
the boondocks.

By installing the tower in the aircraft you are only a few hundred
feet from the tower (at the most). The Cell phones will get an
excellent signal from it and will drop to the lowest transmit power
setting, Thus the interference with towers on the ground should be
minimal.

I am not an expert on these, I am just repeating how it was explained
to me.

Brian

"Morgans" wrote in message ...

"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...

I noticed on the evening news the other night that someone is trying to

get

a modular mobile "cell tower" approved that would be installed in

commercial

aircraft so that passengers can use their own mobile phones. It will be
interesting to see how the FCC and FAA handle this one.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


Still won't work. The frequency the cell in the air is on, will be hitting
dozens of towers on the ground, making them unable to use that frequency for
other users on the land.

DaveC wrote:

Cell phone usage is restricted on all domestic commercial flights by the FAA,
so the flight attendant keeps telling me.

I seem to recall that this wasn't so, early in cellular history. Weren't we
able to use cell phones on flights, long ago?

Is cell phone usage also restricted on private jets, etc. for similar
reasons?

So my question... what is the technical reason for restriction of cell phone
us on commercial flights? Is this reason valid, technically? Or is it simply
an excuse to force anyone who needs to make a call to use the airline's
on-board phones (and pay their outrageous rates)?

The origin of the ban was due to concerns about cellphone transmissions
interfering with onboard avionics. This is more likely to be a concern with older
a/c. There is no hard data that I know of that substantiates the concern. There
is some anecdotal evidence of interference though.

As another poster has mentioned, cellphones don't work well at altitude.

Both Boeing and Airbus are now working on systems to enable airborne use of
cellphones.


Graham