Mike Coslo wrote:
Simon VK3XEM wrote:

Walt Davidson wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:31:04 +1100, Simon VK3XEM
wrote:


1. IRLP is a popular way of communications on Amateur Radio.




IRLP has as much to do with Amateur Radio as smoke signals or
semaphore.

The only difference is, communication by smoke signals or semaphore
would be a whole lot more challenging and satisfying than IRLP.

73 de G3NYY



WAKE UP! You *MUST* use your radio, the person at the other end
*MUST* use their radio. Last time I checked that was Amateur Radio.


Here is what the difference is.


There is very little difference between IRLP and people using the
internet for making telephone calls.

If a person made a gateway for IRLP using FRS radios, it would be
the same thing. For CB radio, same thing.

There are voice chat rooms for people on the internet already. They
are probably more reliable than IRLP. THey cut out the weak link - the
radio.

The whole setup eliminates every interest and challenge of Amateur
radio, except for the talking. There is as much technical acumen needed
for me to talk around the world using IRLP as there is for me to pick up
the telephone.

Like I said before there are *MANY* parts to our hobby, I don't knock
what you do in Amateur Radio, so leave people alone that like IRLP.


Um, no thanks. Seriously, if you want to do IRLP, then have at it.
But if you do silly things like have contests, then I think I'll voice
my opinion if ya don't mind.

Without new innovations in Amateur Radio we will not get new people
into the hobby. If we don't get new people into the hobby then
Amateur Radio will die a natural death and then we will have to find
another hobby!


And here is the real kick. Do you actually *think* that IRLP is some
kind of "innovation"? It is the internet equivalent of a phone patch.
Like I say, if that is your think, then fine. But to actually have a
contest for such things is silly.

Of course, last time I checked, there was no law against being
silly! 8^)



- Mike KB3EIA -

Up until now I haven't made comment on the contest, that is probably
because I have no real interest at present for contesting, although that
does change from time to time.

I suppose a month long contest is a long time, although I would have
thought that being spread over a large network such as IRLP it wouldn't
have really created a great deal of traffic on any given node.

Besides, how many operators are going to be contesting all month? Most
I would expect will just jump on in their spare time, just as they would
for normal operating.


--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/cli...IENT_NO=157452
VoIP http://www.TALKonIP.com.au/

Martin, VK2UMJ wrote:

"Jock." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:31:04 +1100, Simon VK3XEM
wrote:


I don't understand why cell phones aren't included.

How many points would I accrue from working my nearest cellphone
node which is about 2 km distant?


WAKE UP! There are so many different things you can do on Amateur
Radio, there is room for everyone.

Absolutely, but this isn't one of them.


I fail to see the difference between using an FM repeater that is linked to
another repeater on a different band, which is commonly done, and using
IRLP.... Yet using the repeater is perfectly acceptable?

Umm, do we have FM repeater contests?

IRLP is, usually, vastly different than EchoLink.. If stations at both ends
are using radio, then does it really matter how the link between is
established?

That depends. The idea of using Handi-talkies to talk across the world
by IRLP is interesting after a fashion, but in reality not a lot
different than using a phone patch to do the same.


Using linked repeaters is fine, some of which use links
outside amateur bands, yet nobody here is suggesting that we put crap on
those operators!

Frankly, although I use FM repeaters of the linked and normal variety,
they are only for utilitarian purposes, and really aren't all that much
"fun"

Yes, DX contacts via HF are nice, and may be what many consider to be true
amateur radio, but not everyone can get on HF bands and if IRLP helps
increase activity on radio bands then how can it be a bad thing?

It is a dilution of Amateur radio.

I do, however, agree that a 24/7 contest for a whole 28 days is starting to
get a bit much! 24/7 for 1 or 2 days should be enough, just like most other
amateur contests.

Under no circumstances is it "like" other amateur contests.

This is what is a little bothersome about the whole thing. For me to
participate in an HF contest, (excluding that I have to do this stuff
to get on the air anyhow) I need to erect an antenna system that works
fairly well, I have to hone my receiving skills so that I can pull weak
signals, and to learn general good operating practices.

Now, what do I need to do with IRLP?..........

The bothersome part is that it seems like too many IRLP'ers and
Echolinker's, just don't "get " that.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Brian Reay wrote:

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
et...


Thanks for bringing this up Mate!.

My major problem is folks refering to interconnecting "hams" over the
internet as "ham radio". Ham radio is R A D I O . Not INTERNET

connected

to Nodes then to a radio somewhere. Call it whatever you want, but it is
NOT ham radio.



No doubt similar utterances were made when spark transmitters were phased
out.

Technology moves on, that is the nature of things. No one is forcing you to
use ILRP or any of the other modes.


Kindly indicate how IRLP is a moving on of technology?

I can do EVERYTHING that IRLP or Echolink can do by eliminating the
silly Handi-Talkie on the end.

It would all work better if the radio part was eliminated.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"Simon VK3XEM" wrote in message
...


Get over it! Go back to your CW if you want, who bothers you or bags you
for using it, I know I certainly don't.


--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/cli...IENT_NO=157452
VoIP http://www.TALKonIP.com.au/


Thanks for bringing this up Mate!.

My major problem is folks refering to interconnecting "hams" over the
internet as "ham radio". Ham radio is R A D I O . Not INTERNET connected
to Nodes then to a radio somewhere. Call it whatever you want, but it is
NOT ham radio.


It is an H-T audio chat room, Dan.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Martin, VK2UMJ wrote:

"Jock." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:31:04 +1100, Simon VK3XEM
wrote:


I don't understand why cell phones aren't included.

How many points would I accrue from working my nearest cellphone
node which is about 2 km distant?


WAKE UP! There are so many different things you can do on Amateur
Radio, there is room for everyone.

Absolutely, but this isn't one of them.


I fail to see the difference between using an FM repeater that is linked
to another repeater on a different band, which is commonly done, and
using IRLP.... Yet using the repeater is perfectly acceptable?

Umm, do we have FM repeater contests?

Yep..... Well, contests that allow FM repeater contacts anyway...


IRLP is, usually, vastly different than EchoLink.. If stations at both
ends are using radio, then does it really matter how the link between is
established?

That depends. The idea of using Handi-talkies to talk across the world by
IRLP is interesting after a fashion, but in reality not a lot different
than using a phone patch to do the same.


True, but even a phone patch at one stage in history was popular and they
both still use radio to some degree. Maybe not everybody's 'cup of tea',
but still neither is CW, or SSTV, or RTTY, etc..


Using linked repeaters is fine, some of which use links
outside amateur bands, yet nobody here is suggesting that we put crap on
those operators!

Frankly, although I use FM repeaters of the linked and normal variety,
they are only for utilitarian purposes, and really aren't all that much
"fun"

I agree, and while I would much prefer to run DX on 50MHz SSB, that isn't
always possible so what happens during other times? Do I just switch all
the radio gear off and give up, or resort to using repeaters and the like???


Yes, DX contacts via HF are nice, and may be what many consider to be
true amateur radio, but not everyone can get on HF bands and if IRLP
helps increase activity on radio bands then how can it be a bad thing?

It is a dilution of Amateur radio.

Voice was a dilution of Amateur Radio way back in the early days where CW
was all the go, yet here we are removing CW from the entrance requirements.
Rather than criticise those using IRLP, shouldn't we just 'understand' that
maybe they use it for a reason and then encourage them to experiment with
other modes??? On the other hand, I know of many long time hams that use HF
often for DX contacts, even using CW, but at other times (e.g. when mobile,
when portable, or when conditions are very poor) they use IRLP to keep in
touch with overseas stations AND encourage newcomers to the hobby to chat
with people outside their city....


I do, however, agree that a 24/7 contest for a whole 28 days is starting
to get a bit much! 24/7 for 1 or 2 days should be enough, just like most
other amateur contests.

Under no circumstances is it "like" other amateur contests.

This is what is a little bothersome about the whole thing. For me to
participate in an HF contest, (excluding that I have to do this stuff to
get on the air anyhow) I need to erect an antenna system that works fairly
well, I have to hone my receiving skills so that I can pull weak signals,
and to learn general good operating practices.

Now, what do I need to do with IRLP?..........

Erect an an antenna system that works fairly well (depending if you use a
repeater or simplex node), learn general good operating practices, get DTMF
working on your radio!!!!


The bothersome part is that it seems like too many IRLP'ers and
Echolinker's, just don't "get " that.

I agree EchoLink is just not amateur radio, although I use it sometimes from
inside the house where the XYL wont let me bring my radios! But again,
rather than criticise and make fun of their chosen mode, wouldn't we be much
better off encouraging the use of other modes????


- Mike KB3EIA -



--
Martin, VK2UMJ

To reply by e-mail, replace ".invalid" with ".com.au"


Q. Why is Santa so jolly?
A. Because he knows where all the bad girls live!

In article , Jock wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:31:04 +1100, Simon VK3XEM wrote:

I don't understand why cell phones aren't included.

How many points would I accrue from working my nearest cellphone
node which is about 2 km distant?

WAKE UP! There are so many different things you can do on Amateur
Radio, there is room for everyone.

Absolutely, but this isn't one of them.

-----

The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

No doubt these organisations will be relieved to hear that.

73 de Jock.

Whats your point, cant accept anything developed in
the 21st century. Go and hit your little white ball
around the fairway....

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

No doubt similar utterances were made when spark transmitters were
phased
out.

Technology moves on, that is the nature of things. No one is forcing you
to
use ILRP or any of the other modes.


Kindly indicate how IRLP is a moving on of technology?

I can do EVERYTHING that IRLP or Echolink can do by eliminating the
silly Handi-Talkie on the end.

It would all work better if the radio part was eliminated.

So you've moved on "even further".

Personally, I like the radio bit and, to me, Echolink (or the other VOIP
systems) aren't "real amateur radio". However, I don't feel the urge to tell
you how you should enjoy your hobby. If Echolink does it for you, please
enjoy the hobby in your own way.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

In article , Mike Coslo wrote:

There is very little difference between IRLP and people using the
internet for making telephone calls.

So what, are you saying IRLP is a phone call or what is it ?
Infact who gives a damm what it is, it allows HAMS to
communicate when they want to. IRLP demonstrates whats
possible so if you dont like it, dont use it.


If a person made a gateway for IRLP using FRS radios, it would be the
same thing. For CB radio, same thing.

There are voice chat rooms for people on the internet already. They are
probably more reliable than IRLP. THey cut out the weak link - the radio.


Sure, use them and call it what you want.

The whole setup eliminates every interest and challenge of Amateur
radio, except for the talking. There is as much technical acumen needed
for me to talk around the world using IRLP as there is for me to pick up
the telephone.

eh eh , the standard answer from an Armchair Critic. You Sir have
no idea how IRLP operates and is structured. You even think that
picking up a VOIP phone is a simple exercise. If you've bothered
to investigate how SIP, H323, MGCP and other protocols work
and how this is hooked together to provide VOIP, then I and everyone
else here would love you to make it wonderfully simple...

Like I said before there are *MANY* parts to our hobby, I don't knock
what you do in Amateur Radio, so leave people alone that like IRLP.

Um, no thanks. Seriously, if you want to do IRLP, then have at it. But
if you do silly things like have contests, then I think I'll voice my
opinion if ya don't mind.

I would prefer if you shut your mouth actually and let those
that are interested, have spent the time organising and promoting
get on with it and for you to pursue your own interests, though
your own interests seem to be related in flaming people doing
things you have no interest in....

Without new innovations in Amateur Radio we will not get new people into
the hobby. If we don't get new people into the hobby then Amateur Radio
will die a natural death and then we will have to find another hobby!

And here is the real kick. Do you actually *think* that IRLP is some
kind of "innovation"? It is the internet equivalent of a phone patch.
Like I say, if that is your think, then fine. But to actually have a
contest for such things is silly.

YOu really need to get out more....IRLP has been around for many many
years, 6 to be exact. Its not a phone patch, a phone patch
connects to an analogue circuit. IRLP was one of the early VOIP
systems, you know, those systems that are **6 YEARS LATER getting
press coverage....

Let them contest, collect your stamps and let those that are
interested in their aspect of the hobby get on with it. You
could do **MUCH** better to remain silent and get on with your
**OWN** aspects of the hobby

Of course, last time I checked, there was no law against being silly! 8^)



- Mike KB3EIA -

Aint that a fact....

My major problem is folks refering to interconnecting "hams" over the
internet as "ham radio". Ham radio is R A D I O . Not INTERNET
connected to Nodes then to a radio somewhere. Call it whatever you want,
but it is NOT ham radio.

Dan/W4NTI

********. That rules out repeater linking and remote shacks using any form
of landline. I hope you can convince the DXCC committee to reject all those
QSL cards from peole using remote bases.

Brad

nana wrote:

********. That rules out repeater linking and remote shacks using any form
of landline. I hope you can convince the DXCC committee to reject all those
QSL cards from peole using remote bases.


QSL cards can be exchanged for any sort of radio contact. There are no
rules. Perfectly ok to QSL after an eQSO/Echolnk/IRLP contact. The
problem will arise for DXCC when the card does not make it clear that
the QSO was not 100% radio, and these cards are used to claim awards.

73,
--
Chris

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:08:56 +1100, Simon VK3XEM wrote:

Besides, how many operators are going to be contesting all month? Most
I would expect will just jump on in their spare time, just as they would
for normal operating.

Are you seriously labelling the morons who indulge in this sort
of nonsense "operators"? Seriously?

73 de Jock.
--
"Maybe this world is another planet's Hell."
- Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
et...


Thanks for bringing this up Mate!.

My major problem is folks refering to interconnecting "hams" over the
internet as "ham radio". Ham radio is R A D I O . Not INTERNET
connected
to Nodes then to a radio somewhere. Call it whatever you want, but it
is
NOT ham radio.


No doubt similar utterances were made when spark transmitters were phased
out.

Technology moves on, that is the nature of things. No one is forcing you
to
use ILRP or any of the other modes.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898


Oh I don't think so Brian. Spark was a MODE not a different system of
sending the information.

CW is continous wave. I.E. still sending information by the same method.
I.E. over the airwaves now called RADIO.

Do you see the difference yet?

I do. And so does anyone else with a brain.

Look...new technology is fine. Old technology is also fine. But these two
things ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE. Radio is Radio. Internet is Internet. Get
it?

Dan/W4NTI

"Stan" wrote in message
. ..

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
et...


Thanks for bringing this up Mate!.

My major problem is folks refering to interconnecting "hams" over the
internet as "ham radio". Ham radio is R A D I O . Not INTERNET
connected
to Nodes then to a radio somewhere. Call it whatever you want, but it
is
NOT ham radio.


No doubt similar utterances were made when spark transmitters were phased
out.

Technology moves on, that is the nature of things. No one is forcing you
to
use ILRP or any of the other modes.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898


Missed the point there Brian, Dan is complaining about what the mode is
called, not the fact that it exists..

73 de Stan, G4EGH.


Thank you Stan. Perhaps my American is not up to the English standards,
eh?

Dan/W4NTI

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"Simon VK3XEM" wrote in message
...


Get over it! Go back to your CW if you want, who bothers you or bags you
for using it, I know I certainly don't.


--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/cli...IENT_NO=157452
VoIP http://www.TALKonIP.com.au/


Thanks for bringing this up Mate!.

My major problem is folks refering to interconnecting "hams" over the
internet as "ham radio". Ham radio is R A D I O . Not INTERNET
connected to Nodes then to a radio somewhere. Call it whatever you want,
but it is NOT ham radio.


It is an H-T audio chat room, Dan.

- Mike KB3EIA -

As I said....call it whatever they want. But it ain't Ham Radio.

Dan/W4NTI

"nana" wrote in message
...
My major problem is folks refering to interconnecting "hams" over the
internet as "ham radio". Ham radio is R A D I O . Not INTERNET
connected to Nodes then to a radio somewhere. Call it whatever you want,
but it is NOT ham radio.

Dan/W4NTI

********. That rules out repeater linking and remote shacks using any form
of landline. I hope you can convince the DXCC committee to reject all
those QSL cards from peole using remote bases.

Brad


No it does not Brad. It's not the technology it's the terminology.

Dan/W4NTI

"Chris Kirby" wrote in message
...
nana wrote:

********. That rules out repeater linking and remote shacks using any form
of landline. I hope you can convince the DXCC committee to reject all
those
QSL cards from peole using remote bases.


QSL cards can be exchanged for any sort of radio contact. There are no
rules. Perfectly ok to QSL after an eQSO/Echolnk/IRLP contact. The
problem will arise for DXCC when the card does not make it clear that
the QSO was not 100% radio, and these cards are used to claim awards.

73,
--
Chris

Which opens up another area of consternation. Here it is; If you don't do
it via radio, you don't qualify for a ham RADIO award.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...
Oh I don't think so Brian. Spark was a MODE not a different system of
sending the information.

CW is continous wave. I.E. still sending information by the same method.
I.E. over the airwaves now called RADIO.

Do you see the difference yet?

I do. And so does anyone else with a brain.

Look...new technology is fine. Old technology is also fine. But these
two
things ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE. Radio is Radio. Internet is Internet.
Get
it?

What I don't 'get' is why people get so 'up tight' over such things?

If people enjoy VOIP systems fine, if they don't, fine. Ditto Morse, Packet,
Phone, Repeaters, .........

I've yet to see a facet of the hobby that has adversely impacted my
enjoyment- even if is a facet that leaves me cold.

What is this urge to insist everyone does it 'your way'?

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
nk.net...

Missed the point there Brian, Dan is complaining about what the mode is
called, not the fact that it exists..

73 de Stan, G4EGH.


Thank you Stan. Perhaps my American is not up to the English standards,
eh?


Well, in that case why don't you call it something else. Then come back
when someone makes you call it by the name that upsets you.

Untill then, 'mellow out'.

In the scheme of things to worry about this must rate below which shoes I
wear tomorrow.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
nk.net...


Missed the point there Brian, Dan is complaining about what the mode is
called, not the fact that it exists..

73 de Stan, G4EGH.


Thank you Stan. Perhaps my American is not up to the English standards,
eh?

Dan/W4NTI

Your English is fine, Dan. Brian sometimes misses the point, which is
surprising, given the education he apparently received :-)

73 de Stan, G4EGH

Jock. wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:08:56 +1100, Simon VK3XEM wrote:


Besides, how many operators are going to be contesting all month? Most
I would expect will just jump on in their spare time, just as they would
for normal operating.


Are you seriously labelling the morons who indulge in this sort
of nonsense "operators"? Seriously?

73 de Jock.

No, I am actually labeling *YOU* as a moron and **** listing you!


--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/cli...IENT_NO=157452
VoIP http://www.TALKonIP.com.au/

Brian Reay wrote:

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...
Oh I don't think so Brian. Spark was a MODE not a different system of

sending the information.

CW is continous wave. I.E. still sending information by the same method.
I.E. over the airwaves now called RADIO.

Do you see the difference yet?

I do. And so does anyone else with a brain.

Look...new technology is fine. Old technology is also fine. But these

two

things ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE. Radio is Radio. Internet is Internet.

Get

it?


What I don't 'get' is why people get so 'up tight' over such things?

If people enjoy VOIP systems fine, if they don't, fine. Ditto Morse, Packet,
Phone, Repeaters, .........

I've yet to see a facet of the hobby that has adversely impacted my
enjoyment- even if is a facet that leaves me cold.

What is this urge to insist everyone does it 'your way'?

I believe Dan and myself are *not* insisting that people do things
*our* way. IIRC, Dan is mainly CW and at least some SSB.

I do probably 90 percent PSK31, a VHF net check-in, and some SSB
contesting.

Have he or I been insisting on people using our favorite modes?

I know that my objection to the internet modes is *not* their
existence, but that so many of their adherents want to call them
"radio". And having a contest only exacerbates the silliness.

And yes, a person uses their radio to access the network injection
point. Not much of a challenge, that.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Brian Reay wrote:


Well, in that case why don't you call it something else. Then come back
when someone makes you call it by the name that upsets you.

Untill then, 'mellow out'.


Dan, why are IRLP fans so quick to tell people to shut up and go away
when someone disagrees with them. Are people like you and "concerned
amateur" typical of what we might meet if we sample the mode?

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

I know that my objection to the internet modes is *not* their
existence, but that so many of their adherents want to call them
"radio". And having a contest only exacerbates the silliness.

Hmm, and what someone else calls it bothers you? AND they want a contest.
The cheek of it!

This a akin to "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin." Take a
chill pill.

And yes, a person uses their radio to access the network injection
point. Not much of a challenge, that.

So don't do it yourself, seek out something you find rewarding rather than
worry how others get their kicks.

Oh I agree that it isn't much challenge but so what? Who are 'they' harming?

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Brian Reay wrote:


Well, in that case why don't you call it something else. Then come back
when someone makes you call it by the name that upsets you.

Untill then, 'mellow out'.


Dan, why are IRLP fans so quick to tell people to shut up and go away
when someone disagrees with them. Are people like you and "concerned
amateur" typical of what we might meet if we sample the mode?


I don't think anyone is saying "shut up" etc. I'm saying unless ILRP impacts
you, why worry?

Over the years I've come across many amateurs who hated some aspect of the
hobby- packet, anything computer based,........ Not one ever seems to have
found a niche they really do like.


--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

Only the nominated Participating Nodes may be used for the contest. However,
nodes that are connected to Reflectors that are Participating (ie a UK Nov
node) still count, but only the Participating Nodes may be connected to by
contesters, therefore it is fair to all stations, as only those nominated
in each country are participating nodes. Note that new nodes are added daily
to the participating list.


"DieSea" wrote in message
...




It there fore puts the UK amateur at a dis-advantage as soon as the
licensee
walks
of the property , the node should be turned off.

DieSea

I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to go against the regs. But what has
that got to do with the IRLP contest? My point was with so many active
nodes out there the load would be spread out and traffic I would expect
be very minimal on any given node.



It certainly doesn't make the "PLAYING FIELDS LEVEL"

Our local Node op has been away this weekend helping at the Blackpool
Rally so his
nodes been down since Friday , its just gone up.

In some respect we're lucky as he's an elderly bloke with mobility
problems , he
doesn't get out much , so when he's up its on , he's still p***ed off with
this 24
/ 7 x 28 day contest .


The Next comment you make is that its radio to radio , that's not 100 %
correct ,
I know of at least 3 VK's , 2 VE's and at least 5 G / M stations that
don't have a
radio connected to their node . Its quite easy to confirm that comment
about G / M
stations if you know where to look.

DieSea.

In article , Mike Coslo wrote:


Brian Reay wrote:


Well, in that case why don't you call it something else. Then come back
when someone makes you call it by the name that upsets you.

Untill then, 'mellow out'.


Dan, why are IRLP fans so quick to tell people to shut up and go away
when someone disagrees with them. Are people like you and "concerned
amateur" typical of what we might meet if we sample the mode?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Because you are a **TROLL**. Trying to make links that dont exist.

Mike Coslo wrote:


Brian Reay wrote:


Well, in that case why don't you call it something else. Then come back
when someone makes you call it by the name that upsets you.

Untill then, 'mellow out'.



Dan, why are IRLP fans so quick to tell people to shut up and go
away when someone disagrees with them. Are people like you and
"concerned amateur" typical of what we might meet if we sample the mode?

- Mike KB3EIA -

The argument I see here is some appear to be *AGAINST* IRLP therefore it
should not be allowed on the Amateur Bands, and that is what is annoying
me the most.

My attitude is that any Amateur should be free to operate what ever
band, mode, etc. they wish provided they are not interfering with others
without being hounded by others simply because they don't believe that
mode (or what ever you want to call it) should not be on Amateur Radio.

There is plenty of spectrum for us to *SHARE*, to pursue the hobby in
the way each of us want to. Although I have not operated CW myself I
hope that allocations remain for those that do make use of this part of
our hobby. Just because I don't operate a given mode does not mean that
I should believe it be abolished.

The great thing with our hobby as I see it is that there are so many
different aspects of it to explore, IRLP is just one of them!


--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/cli...IENT_NO=157452
VoIP http://www.TALKonIP.com.au/

In article , Brian Reay wrote:



"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Brian Reay wrote:


Well, in that case why don't you call it something else. Then come back
when someone makes you call it by the name that upsets you.

Untill then, 'mellow out'.


Dan, why are IRLP fans so quick to tell people to shut up and go away
when someone disagrees with them. Are people like you and "concerned
amateur" typical of what we might meet if we sample the mode?


I don't think anyone is saying "shut up" etc. I'm saying unless ILRP impacts
you, why worry?

No, I told him to shut his freckle and that his **TROLLING** was not
appreciated. If he doesnt have anything positive to say about it,
then go and play elsewhere where he can contribute

Over the years I've come across many amateurs who hated some aspect of the
hobby- packet, anything computer based,........ Not one ever seems to have
found a niche they really do like.

Ashley VK3HAG wrote:
Only the nominated Participating Nodes may be used for the contest. However,
nodes that are connected to Reflectors that are Participating (ie a UK Nov
node) still count, but only the Participating Nodes may be connected to by
contesters, therefore it is fair to all stations, as only those nominated
in each country are participating nodes. Note that new nodes are added daily
to the participating list.

That certainly knocks down a lot of the flamers!


"DieSea" wrote in message
...



It there fore puts the UK amateur at a dis-advantage as soon as the

licensee

walks

of the property , the node should be turned off.

DieSea

I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to go against the regs. But what has
that got to do with the IRLP contest? My point was with so many active
nodes out there the load would be spread out and traffic I would expect
be very minimal on any given node.



It certainly doesn't make the "PLAYING FIELDS LEVEL"

Our local Node op has been away this weekend helping at the Blackpool

Rally so his

nodes been down since Friday , its just gone up.

In some respect we're lucky as he's an elderly bloke with mobility

problems , he

doesn't get out much , so when he's up its on , he's still p***ed off with

this 24

/ 7 x 28 day contest .


The Next comment you make is that its radio to radio , that's not 100 %

correct ,

I know of at least 3 VK's , 2 VE's and at least 5 G / M stations that

don't have a

radio connected to their node . Its quite easy to confirm that comment

about G / M

stations if you know where to look.

DieSea.







--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/cli...IENT_NO=157452
VoIP http://www.TALKonIP.com.au/

I choose to use IRLP as it allows me to connect to hams interstate and
overseas, until I can get HF gear put up, which seeing as we are moving, not
much point until at new QTH later this year. Personally, as a newbie to ham
radio, (but long time cb'er and scanner user) it is a great way to get one
interested in amateur radio. When I have a HF set-up I will have a list of
contacts overseas I have made via IRLP and try to contact them on HF.

**As a newcomer to ham radio IRLP has made me want to get my HF gear, hf
antennas etc sooner, ie IRLP has encouraged me to make international
contacts on HF one day**

As for the IRLP contest I think it's great, because I've never been in any
AR contest, although after listening for a while I did give out some numbers
for the John Moyle Field Day. To me the IRLP contest is a great way to have
fun and at the same time learn about contesting, as a newbie to AR I've
never being in a contest before, nor did I know what they were all about.
Yes, I do read, but if your new to ham radio, all that information on the
various AR contests in AR magazine didn't make any sense until I started
participating in the IRLP contest, now I've got some idea of how a contest
works, instead of having to learn in the middle of a pile-up. (Like the one
at the beginning and end of each three hour block of the JMFD, here in
Melbourne the 2m/70cm FM call channels where very alive, to say the least)
Note also that I intend to try many different aspects of ar besides FM
repeaters, FM simplex and IRLP.

**As a newcomer to ham radio the IRLP contest meant that I participated
(gave out about 15pts as Home Station) in the John Moyle Field Day, which I
wouldn't have done without the previous two days practice at contesting on
the IRLP mode, as I didn't have a clue about contesting**.

So, IRLP is bad because it's introduced a new ham to contesting and
international contacts. I'm so disappointed that IRLP taught me these
skills. Not.

Now, I'm looking forward to the next Australian contest that includes V/UHF
FM and I'll participate, as I will in HF contests when I have HF gear. The
IRLP Contest has provided the opportunity for me to be introduced to, and
learn about contesting in a contest that is relaxed-pace one, so unlike a
'pile-up' on HF with a newcomer trying in vain to get through, I've got some
practice at calling "CQ Contest" and responding.

And the last one for a 'newbie'. No I don't know CW. Will I learn CW? Yes.
After a while, once I have been a ham for a while I will start to practice
CW. I do have a key and I do listen to CW practice transmissions from time
to time.

The contest goes for a month so there would be no 'pile ups', so the end
would co-incide with the IRLP Conference in Las Vegas, and the operation of
Node 6392 by VK3JED in Las Vegas! Further, the Node Owners of all the
Participating Stations have given the Bass IRLP Group permission to use
thier nodes for the contest. If the knockers took a look at the
Participating Nodes list they would see that the UK and USA have many more
nodes listed than other countries.

Should I try packet and satellite work? How about ATV? I'd ask, but too many
people in here will say "that's not ham radio" so I'll try them all anyway
and see what takes my fancy :)

PS:Any VK3's with a packet TNC to sell or know where to get one from?

.

"Simon VK3XEM" wrote in message
. ..
Mike Coslo wrote:


Brian Reay wrote:


Well, in that case why don't you call it something else. Then come
back
when someone makes you call it by the name that upsets you.

Untill then, 'mellow out'.



Dan, why are IRLP fans so quick to tell people to shut up and go
away when someone disagrees with them. Are people like you and
"concerned amateur" typical of what we might meet if we sample the mode?

- Mike KB3EIA -

The argument I see here is some appear to be *AGAINST* IRLP therefore it
should not be allowed on the Amateur Bands, and that is what is annoying
me the most.

My attitude is that any Amateur should be free to operate what ever
band, mode, etc. they wish provided they are not interfering with others
without being hounded by others simply because they don't believe that
mode (or what ever you want to call it) should not be on Amateur Radio.

There is plenty of spectrum for us to *SHARE*, to pursue the hobby in
the way each of us want to. Although I have not operated CW myself I
hope that allocations remain for those that do make use of this part of
our hobby. Just because I don't operate a given mode does not mean that
I should believe it be abolished.

The great thing with our hobby as I see it is that there are so many
different aspects of it to explore, IRLP is just one of them!


--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.

http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/cli...IENT_NO=157452
VoIP http://www.TALKonIP.com.au/

Martin, VK2UMJ wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

Martin, VK2UMJ wrote:


"Jock." wrote in message
...


On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:31:04 +1100, Simon VK3XEM
wrote:



I don't understand why cell phones aren't included.

How many points would I accrue from working my nearest cellphone
node which is about 2 km distant?



WAKE UP! There are so many different things you can do on Amateur
Radio, there is room for everyone.

Absolutely, but this isn't one of them.


I fail to see the difference between using an FM repeater that is linked
to another repeater on a different band, which is commonly done, and
using IRLP.... Yet using the repeater is perfectly acceptable?

Umm, do we have FM repeater contests?


Yep..... Well, contests that allow FM repeater contacts anyway...


IRLP is, usually, vastly different than EchoLink.. If stations at both
ends are using radio, then does it really matter how the link between is
established?

That depends. The idea of using Handi-talkies to talk across the world by
IRLP is interesting after a fashion, but in reality not a lot different
than using a phone patch to do the same.



True, but even a phone patch at one stage in history was popular and they
both still use radio to some degree. Maybe not everybody's 'cup of tea',
but still neither is CW, or SSTV, or RTTY, etc..

Certainly. One of the major reasons that I got into Ham radio *was* the
phone patch. One of my other hobbies is off road 4WD'ing. North of my
QTH is a great place for that. Unfortunately, I sometimes get stuck, and
extricating myself can take anywhere from a few minutes to half a day
(and I think you IRLP'ers have some odd ideas on how to have fun!!)
hehehe but I digress. My XYL gets a bit worried when I don't show up for
dinner, and cell phones just don't work that far out in the woods. But I
can patch in with either my handheld or truck radio, and let her know
I'll be late. All this much to the amusement of my local Ham bud's.


Using linked repeaters is fine, some of which use links

outside amateur bands, yet nobody here is suggesting that we put crap on
those operators!

Frankly, although I use FM repeaters of the linked and normal variety,
they are only for utilitarian purposes, and really aren't all that much
"fun"


I agree, and while I would much prefer to run DX on 50MHz SSB, that isn't
always possible so what happens during other times? Do I just switch all
the radio gear off and give up, or resort to using repeaters and the like???

Well, I don't know what your situation is for the lower HF bands. But
remember, my issue isn't with the mode, even though I don't care for it.
I just think things like contests are silly.


Yes, DX contacts via HF are nice, and may be what many consider to be
true amateur radio, but not everyone can get on HF bands and if IRLP
helps increase activity on radio bands then how can it be a bad thing?

It is a dilution of Amateur radio.


Voice was a dilution of Amateur Radio way back in the early days where CW
was all the go, yet here we are removing CW from the entrance requirements.

Well, I can see a difference when most of the transmission is via fiber
rather than the air.


Rather than criticise those using IRLP, shouldn't we just 'understand' that
maybe they use it for a reason and then encourage them to experiment with
other modes??? On the other hand, I know of many long time hams that use HF
often for DX contacts, even using CW, but at other times (e.g. when mobile,
when portable, or when conditions are very poor) they use IRLP to keep in
touch with overseas stations AND encourage newcomers to the hobby to chat
with people outside their city....

Or, will it encoiurage newcomers to simply stay at the lowes level,
because if chatting to people around the world is their goal, then they
have achieved it. As I have said, if that is what floats their boat,
then so be it.

I do, however, agree that a 24/7 contest for a whole 28 days is starting
to get a bit much! 24/7 for 1 or 2 days should be enough, just like most
other amateur contests.

Under no circumstances is it "like" other amateur contests.

This is what is a little bothersome about the whole thing. For me to
participate in an HF contest, (excluding that I have to do this stuff to
get on the air anyhow) I need to erect an antenna system that works fairly
well, I have to hone my receiving skills so that I can pull weak signals,
and to learn general good operating practices.

Now, what do I need to do with IRLP?..........


Erect an an antenna system that works fairly well (depending if you use a
repeater or simplex node), learn general good operating practices, get DTMF
working on your radio!!!!

And let us hope they don't stop there!


The bothersome part is that it seems like too many IRLP'ers and
Echolinker's, just don't "get " that.


I agree EchoLink is just not amateur radio, although I use it sometimes from
inside the house where the XYL wont let me bring my radios!

hehe, my XYL was also pretty critical. I did eventually tell her that
I was thinking about taking up a new hobby in place of amateur radio.
The new hobby was going to bars and chatting with loose "wimmin". I
retrospect, the ham radio didn't seem so bad. Now as long as my antennas
aren't too obvious, she doesn't complain too much.

But again,
rather than criticise and make fun of their chosen mode, wouldn't we be much
better off encouraging the use of other modes????

Oh, heck, when you put it *that* way........ 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Brian Reay wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


I know that my objection to the internet modes is *not* their
existence, but that so many of their adherents want to call them
"radio". And having a contest only exacerbates the silliness.


Hmm, and what someone else calls it bothers you? AND they want a contest.
The cheek of it!

Quite!

This a akin to "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin." Take a
chill pill.

Brian, Chill pills are for the upset. Its just my opinion.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Brian Reay wrote:


I don't think anyone is saying "shut up" etc. I'm saying unless ILRP impacts
you, why worry?

Right. II understan you, but at least two peopple here have told me to
shut up. Or go away, or something like that.

Considering that this is a Usenet group, wouldn't shutting up and going
away deprive them of a good row?

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"Simon VK3XEM" wrote in message
...


Get over it! Go back to your CW if you want, who bothers you or bags you
for using it, I know I certainly don't.


--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/cli...IENT_NO=157452
VoIP http://www.TALKonIP.com.au/


Thanks for bringing this up Mate!.

My major problem is folks refering to interconnecting "hams" over the
internet as "ham radio". Ham radio is R A D I O . Not INTERNET
connected to Nodes then to a radio somewhere. Call it whatever you
want, but it is NOT ham radio.


It is an H-T audio chat room, Dan.

- Mike KB3EIA -

As I said....call it whatever they want. But it ain't Ham Radio.

oh!! yes it is

let's take it one bit at a time

R = repeater = radio, receiver of repeater linked to
transmitter of a repeater in another country
the reverse is true.

I = internet, no problems here

L is for linking, no problems here

P is for protocol, to enable the two repeaters
to be able to be linked to gether, it is
radio at both ends.

what problem do you have with this

ALF VK5ZKL




Dan/W4NTI

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Martin, VK2UMJ wrote:

[SNIP]

I agree, and while I would much prefer to run DX on 50MHz SSB, that isn't
always possible so what happens during other times? Do I just switch all
the radio gear off and give up, or resort to using repeaters and the
like???

Well, I don't know what your situation is for the lower HF bands. But
remember, my issue isn't with the mode, even though I don't care for it. I
just think things like contests are silly.

Well, perhaps.. Then again *I* think that CW contests are silly!!!! ;-)
(now watch as I am slowly flamed by all the CW operators!!)

No, seriously, I agree that perhaps "contest" was a poor choice of titles
for it, although I see what they are trying to do - just the same as we are
all trying to do and get people active in some way. I also think the 28
days was a tad too long, for *any* 'contest'. Maybe if it only included
simplex nodes, or at least a special category to encourage these, that
would've been better as then at least there is some additional skill needed
to erect an antenna suitable for simplex contacts (a piece of string often
suffices for repeaters!!).

[SNIP]

Voice was a dilution of Amateur Radio way back in the early days where CW
was all the go, yet here we are removing CW from the entrance
requirements.

Well, I can see a difference when most of the transmission is via fiber
rather than the air.


Yes, so can I, but amateur 'radio' encompases many, many different
technologies. The days of "wireless" are long gone, decades ago the thought
of connecting a computer to give Packet or SSTV would no doubt have also
been frowned upon as 'not amateur radio'.....


Rather than criticise those using IRLP, shouldn't we just 'understand'
that maybe they use it for a reason and then encourage them to experiment
with other modes??? On the other hand, I know of many long time hams
that use HF often for DX contacts, even using CW, but at other times
(e.g. when mobile, when portable, or when conditions are very poor) they
use IRLP to keep in touch with overseas stations AND encourage newcomers
to the hobby to chat with people outside their city....

Or, will it encoiurage newcomers to simply stay at the lowes level,
because if chatting to people around the world is their goal, then they
have achieved it. As I have said, if that is what floats their boat, then
so be it.


I think that depends a lot on several factors, including the attitude of
fellow amateurs and how much encouragement we give them to try other bands.
Of course, if money or space limits your abilities then perhaps IRLP will be
the only option used, but I would much prefer in that case a licensed
amateur use IRLP rather than see them just give up their licence and leave
the hobby!

For those that can set up other bands, it is up to fellow amateurs (I
believe) to 'spark their interest' and encorage them. I have seen young
Scouts and Guides amazed at how they can chat via radio to people all over
the world, but often the lead up to them experiencing that is to get them on
Packet and show them how a computer can be linked to another computer
without using phone lines.. By sparking their interest using something they
know (computers), we get them to try radio...

[SNIP]

Erect an an antenna system that works fairly well (depending if you use a
repeater or simplex node), learn general good operating practices, get
DTMF working on your radio!!!!

And let us hope they don't stop there!


Too true!! It would certainly be nice to see them progress and take part in
other 'on air' contests next year!


The bothersome part is that it seems like too many IRLP'ers and
Echolinker's, just don't "get " that.


I agree EchoLink is just not amateur radio, although I use it sometimes
from inside the house where the XYL wont let me bring my radios!

hehe, my XYL was also pretty critical. I did eventually tell her that I
was thinking about taking up a new hobby in place of amateur radio. The
new hobby was going to bars and chatting with loose "wimmin". I
retrospect, the ham radio didn't seem so bad. Now as long as my antennas
aren't too obvious, she doesn't complain too much.


I have no problems with antenna's from the XYL, just none of those damn
noisy radio's inside! Has something to do with not enough room I guess.....

But again,
rather than criticise and make fun of their chosen mode, wouldn't we be
much better off encouraging the use of other modes????

Oh, heck, when you put it *that* way........ 8^)

I fully understand your feelings about IRLP, but I just don't think that
publicly criticising those that choose to use the mode is of any benefit, to
anyone! If you (or anyone) truly felt strongly enough about the length of
the contest, then I'm sure that politely worded notes to the organisers
would've gotten much further than some of the whinges we have seen on here!
Otherwise, for those that simply don't like IRLP, for whatever reason, is
there really any benefit to telling everyone this? I don't like CW, but I
don't make a big fuss everytime a CW contest is announces - I simply don't
take part in it! Likewise for those that don't like Packet, or RTTY, or
SSTV - I guess they just avoid those modes. So why should we start a debate
about IRLP that just ends up making us all look rather childish?????

Anyway, have fun and don't get too bogged in that 4WD!!!!



--
Martin, VK2UMJ

To reply by e-mail, replace ".invalid" with ".com.au"


Press any key to continue, or any other key to exit.

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:02:29 GMT, "Ashley VK3HAG"
wrote:

Personally, as a newbie to ham radio, (but long time cb'er and scanner
user) ...

Well, there's a surprise!
[NOT]

73 de G3NYY

Oh look, another ham that was born with a licence and callsign already
allocated!!!

What, you don't think amateurs start somewhere and may even have used other
forms of radio before???



--
Martin, VK2UMJ
(ham since 1996, CB since 1976, former Australian Volunteer CoastGuard and
State Emergency Service (SES) communications operator, SES communications
Subject Matter Expert, Emergency Communications Operator.)

To reply by e-mail, replace ".invalid" with ".com.au"


"I cannot help but notice that there is no problem
between us that cannot be solved by your departure."

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Brian Reay wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


I know that my objection to the internet modes is *not* their
existence, but that so many of their adherents want to call them
"radio". And having a contest only exacerbates the silliness.


Hmm, and what someone else calls it bothers you? AND they want a
contest.
The cheek of it!

Quite!

You seem a bit sensitive.


This a akin to "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin." Take a
chill pill.

Brian, Chill pills are for the upset.

Well, you certainly seem upset.

Its just my opinion.

Fair enough, and live by it by simply having nothing to do with VOIP etc.
Leave those who like it to do their own thing.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:35:30 +1100, "Martin, VK2UMJ"
wrote:

"Walt Davidson" wrote :
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:02:29 GMT, "Ashley VK3HAG"
wrote:

Personally, as a newbie to ham radio, (but long time cb'er and scanner
user) ...

Well, there's a surprise!
[NOT]

Oh look, another ham that was born with a licence and callsign already
allocated!!!

What, you don't think amateurs start somewhere and may even have used other
forms of radio before???

When I got my amateur radio licence in 1960, there was no such thing
as CB in the UK, and no such thing as a code-free amateur licence. We
were much better off then!

CB is the recruitment ground for LIDs.

73 de G3NYY

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com


I know of a few amateurs ( G3's to boot ) that have made a good living out of CB
in the HAY DAYS during the 80's , as well as picking up some more of the
colourful expressions as well , they can still to be heard to-day with their
Personals ,Twigs and Twenty's or even the name would be .

Come to think of it , why when they are working a local why cant they speak their
mother tongue ands have to pretend they're in a convoy.

DieSea

DieSea

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:08:20 +1100, Simon VK3XEM wrote:

Ashley VK3HAG wrote:
Only the nominated Participating Nodes may be used for the contest. However,
nodes that are connected to Reflectors that are Participating (ie a UK Nov
node) still count, but only the Participating Nodes may be connected to by
contesters, therefore it is fair to all stations, as only those nominated
in each country are participating nodes. Note that new nodes are added daily
to the participating list.

That certainly knocks down a lot of the flamers!

Really? To me it just makes the intending participants look even
sillier than before.

73 de Jock.
--
"Maybe this world is another planet's Hell."
- Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)

"Brian Reay" wrote:

: No doubt similar utterances were made when spark transmitters were phased
: out.


Dear Dear Brian.


you mean...you dont know ???

Surley you could have come up with a more definite statement than THAT ??


:
: Technology moves on, that is the nature of things. No one is forcing you to
: use ILRP or any of the other modes.
but yet you force M3 candiates to do a MORSE ASSESSMENT ??


No UK morse assessment pass = no UK licence whatsoever (FACT!)

COMPULSORY MORSE remains in the UK...
something you had a problem with prior to ITU meeting.


have a really really nice day Brian.