"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...

cl wrote:

A whole bunch snipped.

Those who defy wanting to learn the code jump at any chance to
perpetuate
rumors of code being eliminated.

Similarly, those who promote Morse Code will latch on to any idea, no
matter how wrong, to claim the Code Exam remains valid.


Leave it in, take it out, the riff raff is already invading the bands.

You're right, it will take a while, even if
they were to decide to write a NPRM to do such. If these people
jumped into
Alligator infested waters as fast as they do rumors, the population
would
take a sudden drop. I'm not a "lover" of code, but I have hold a
license
which required code.

Ditto.

5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few
minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a
test. 2
weeks is not long,

It may be impossible for some. I learned it over a considerably longer
period of time with frequent practice.

you probably drove longer on a permit before being
allowed to drive on your own. Probably studied the book longer too!
It takes
little effort.

I disagree. It took a great effort.


For some - it may! One argument I've heard, is that those musically inclined
pick it up quicker than others, yet I knew some who "were" musically
inclined and claimed to have a hell of a time with it. Reason? I don't know.
I can't get inside their head.

The biggest problem with most is "laziness".

Was that your problem? If you hadn't been so lazy you could have
learned the code in under a week?


Eh - I had the code down in 2 weeks for the Novice exam. AND I'm now an
Extra. Been licensed since the early 80s.
Yeah, I probably could have learned it in under a week, if I pushed myself.
Most anyone will tell you - it isn't good to do such. Besides, at that time,
I was chasing rug rats - so study time was premium. Most recommendations are
15 minutes to a half hour a day. That hardly makes it possible in a week. I
used the words " "AT LEAST" 2 WEEKS". Some are faster learners than others,
that is a given. BUT my point was, you have to get started to learn
ANYTHING. You can't absorb it through osmosis. Back to the timing thing, I
hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how much time they
were given to get the code down. I think they had to "Cram".

Maybe you never
will use it again.

Perhaps. I've found little use for it so far. Maybe once I'm an old
fart, have loads of time, and wax nostalgic for things that never were,
I'll take it up and enjoy it, and demand that all learn it.


Probably the same age bracket as me. I do listen to call signs now and then
on the scanner to pick out the services they represent - if I don't
immediately know who the service is. I do listen some times to code on the
H.F. Bands.

There are many things you learn in life and may never use
again, unless you plan to play on Jeopardy. Many people learned the
skeletal
system in health class, microorganisms in Biology class. It doesn't
mean
they use it now. Probably forgot it as soon as they graduated. But,
it was
"required". It's not a big deal people. Once you get past the "do I
have to"
and start doing it, you'll amaze yourself at how fast and easy it can
be.

Indeed. I never had the "do I have to?" attitude as there was no
code-free license when I became a ham. Yet it took me about 9 weeks of
daily practice.


And you stuck with it!!!!!!!! You didn't quit, and it got you where you
wanted to be. OR had to be - for your class of license. 2 weeks, 9 weeks, so
what... you did it. A milestone to be proud of. No one can fault you for
that effort.

I
DO use code now and then, but not daily like many others do. Everyone
has
their own thing. Some are into Packet, RTTY, AMTOR, etc, I'm not...
To each
his own. But we all had to learn "something" about those modes to
pass an
exam.

cl

Use it all you want. I'm against the Code Exam as an unnecessary
government requirement.


Funny thing is, we're all arguing pros and cons and in the end, it won't
matter. WE do not have control. So, if we're going to debate the issues we
have no control over, may as well keep it clean. Hardly any of us know the
other and it isn't worth making enemies over. Certainly not worth name
calling.... Whether I'm right or wrong, I do value opposing view points.
Everyone has a right to his/her own opinion. It sure will be interesting to
see how it all unfolds. I think in the end, we both know the answer to that.
Pro or con, it is a matter of time. May be a year, may be 5, but it will
come to pass.

cl

cl wrote:



For some - it may! One argument I've heard, is that those musically inclined
pick it up quicker than others, yet I knew some who "were" musically
inclined and claimed to have a hell of a time with it. Reason? I don't know.
I can't get inside their head.

I used to teach Novice classes, and I always assumed that anyone could
learn the code if they really wanted to. I found that some people had
difficulty telling the difference between a dit from a dah unless it was
sent very slowy and the dah made a lot longer than the dit, but when
sending a character that contained several dits or dahs or combinations,
they simply could not tell one from the other. It wasn't that they
lacked the skill to learn the code, I could right out characters in dits
and dahs on the board and they could recoginize them, it was an
interpertation problem with the brain of telling the sound of a dit from
the sound of a dah. People with hearing aids often had a difficult time.

In (rec.radio.amateur.misc), Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:

I used to teach Novice classes, and I always assumed that anyone could
learn the code if they really wanted to. I found that some people had
difficulty telling the difference between a dit from a dah unless it was
sent very slowy and the dah made a lot longer than the dit, but when
sending a character that contained several dits or dahs or combinations,
they simply could not tell one from the other. It wasn't that they
lacked the skill to learn the code, I could right out characters in dits
and dahs on the board and they could recoginize them, it was an
interpertation problem with the brain of telling the sound of a dit from
the sound of a dah. People with hearing aids often had a difficult time.

You hit that part right on the head. My XYL has a deep notch in her hearing
response curve, from about 400 Hz to about 2 KHz, due to playing viola in
a symphony orchestra for 15 years, sitting right in front of the brass
section[1]. She's having the very devil of a time with Morse, mostly
because she has problems distinguishing between dit and dah. She has
learned not to trust her ears, and now she's trying to learn to read with
them. The deep notch right where most people tune to read CW and where the
various tapes, CDs, and tutor programs all put the tone, also makes it very
difficult for her.

When she passes Element 1, I have to go learn American Sign Language and
pass a proficiency test.

[1] I'll bet most people don't think much about hearing damage in people
playing in symphony orchestras. It's fairly common.

--
Mike Andrews W5EGO 5WPM
Extra
Tired old sysadmin working on his code speed

"Mike Andrews" wrote in message
...
In (rec.radio.amateur.misc), Cmd
Buzz Corey wrote:

I used to teach Novice classes, and I always assumed that anyone could
learn the code if they really wanted to. I found that some people had
difficulty telling the difference between a dit from a dah unless it was
sent very slowy and the dah made a lot longer than the dit, but when
sending a character that contained several dits or dahs or combinations,
they simply could not tell one from the other. It wasn't that they
lacked the skill to learn the code, I could right out characters in dits
and dahs on the board and they could recoginize them, it was an
interpertation problem with the brain of telling the sound of a dit from
the sound of a dah. People with hearing aids often had a difficult time.

You hit that part right on the head. My XYL has a deep notch in her
hearing
response curve, from about 400 Hz to about 2 KHz, due to playing viola in
a symphony orchestra for 15 years, sitting right in front of the brass
section[1]. She's having the very devil of a time with Morse, mostly
because she has problems distinguishing between dit and dah. She has
learned not to trust her ears, and now she's trying to learn to read with
them. The deep notch right where most people tune to read CW and where the
various tapes, CDs, and tutor programs all put the tone, also makes it
very
difficult for her.


Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of course
you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the test to
have one set up at that pitch for her testing.

Or just make sure that you can turn the volume WAY up just like my ex had to
(70% hearing loss in each ear and constant ringing of the ears).

When she passes Element 1, I have to go learn American Sign Language and
pass a proficiency test.


Sounds fair to me.

[1] I'll bet most people don't think much about hearing damage in people
playing in symphony orchestras. It's fairly common.


Being an amateur musician, I've read quite a bit about it.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:

Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of
course
you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the
test to
have one set up at that pitch for her testing.

Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the
modifications that the VE may make to an examination

bb wrote:

Dee Flint wrote:


Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of

course

you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the

test to

have one set up at that pitch for her testing.


Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the
modifications that the VE may make to an examination

Brian, Dee is a VE.....

- Mike KB3EIA -

Hey, are you going to Dayton this year? I have a batch of what promises
to be an awesome Red Ale which should be ready to drink about that
time......

Mike Coslo wrote:
bb wrote:

Dee Flint wrote:


Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of

course

you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the

test to

have one set up at that pitch for her testing.


Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the
modifications that the VE may make to an examination

Brian, Dee is a VE.....

Steve is a VA.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Hey, are you going to Dayton this year? I have a batch of what
promises
to be an awesome Red Ale which should be ready to drink about that
time......

Which day(s) are you going? I work Saturday.

"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of
course
you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the
test to
have one set up at that pitch for her testing.

Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the
modifications that the VE may make to an examination


That's what you ask in here for! There are VEs in here, myself included -
who can give guidance to those who ask.

cl

cl wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of
course
you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the
test to
have one set up at that pitch for her testing.

Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the
modifications that the VE may make to an examination


That's what you ask in here for! There are VEs in here, myself
included -
who can give guidance to those who ask.

cl

"Here" is all knowing.

Part 97 doesn't define Morse Code, but specifies that it is to be
tested at 5WPM. Part 97 is silent on Farnsworth Code. Part 97 doesn't
say that the VE's must accomodate variations in testing.

Why does a person have to ask RRAP when they should be able to read it
in the governing regulations???

"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of
course
you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the
test to
have one set up at that pitch for her testing.

Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the
modifications that the VE may make to an examination


VEs can accommodate you if special testing is needed - BUT - if "special
equipment" is needed, it is up to the examinee to provide it - the VEs are
not liable for that. All Handicapped applicants "should" call ahead to make
special arrangements so that any extra VE team members if needed - can be
there to assist, or whatever other needs - can be met. For example, if I
have a blind applicant, which I had - I can't read his test to him in the
sitting of others taking the exams. That would be distracting. We instead -
gave this person - his exam - after the others were done. "We" did not have
any "Braille" equipment. I'm not even sure if such equipment exists which
would have read the text to him - if fed in. IF so, it would have been up to
him to supply it. Another case required an hour or so of prior preparation
of materials and equipment. We've had other cases where special needs had to
be met, but again - it was by prior arrangement. There is no other way to do
it. For them to just show up - we simply wouldn't have been able to
accommodate them. I don't know of any VEs who would shy away from testing
the handicapped, but you have to work with them too. They don't know your
problems until you tell them. Then - they can work with you to get you
through the exam process. Even if you failed, they will most likely - now
knowing of you and your condition - offer to help you learn it for the next
time. Maybe even help set up a station.

IF you have a tone problem as I've seen the example given, it could take
some time and equipment to get "a" tone for you to be entirely comfortable
with. IF for some reason - the computer can't do it, then perhaps a taped
exam fed through a mixer to acquire the proper tone. OR maybe even a test -
sent by a code practice oscillator set to a pitch - suitable. The code test
may have to be broken down to allow the person to absorb the sound if they
can't "hear" it properly. In this case, a CPO would work with a buzzer - to
"feel" the characters - as an example. Perhaps - light flashing - if the
tones are not able to be heard at all. Any number of issues could be
prevalent and though there are ways to deal with them, it would be hard
pressed to try and do it with a "walk in" handicapped applicant. Walk in -
in case your not aware - means unannounced - in regard to Ham exams.

cl