"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...

cl wrote:

A whole bunch snipped.

Those who defy wanting to learn the code jump at any chance to
perpetuate
rumors of code being eliminated.

Similarly, those who promote Morse Code will latch on to any idea, no
matter how wrong, to claim the Code Exam remains valid.


Leave it in, take it out, the riff raff is already invading the bands.

You're right, it will take a while, even if
they were to decide to write a NPRM to do such. If these people
jumped into
Alligator infested waters as fast as they do rumors, the population
would
take a sudden drop. I'm not a "lover" of code, but I have hold a
license
which required code.

Ditto.

5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few
minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a
test. 2
weeks is not long,

It may be impossible for some. I learned it over a considerably longer
period of time with frequent practice.

you probably drove longer on a permit before being
allowed to drive on your own. Probably studied the book longer too!
It takes
little effort.

I disagree. It took a great effort.


For some - it may! One argument I've heard, is that those musically inclined
pick it up quicker than others, yet I knew some who "were" musically
inclined and claimed to have a hell of a time with it. Reason? I don't know.
I can't get inside their head.

The biggest problem with most is "laziness".

Was that your problem? If you hadn't been so lazy you could have
learned the code in under a week?


Eh - I had the code down in 2 weeks for the Novice exam. AND I'm now an
Extra. Been licensed since the early 80s.
Yeah, I probably could have learned it in under a week, if I pushed myself.
Most anyone will tell you - it isn't good to do such. Besides, at that time,
I was chasing rug rats - so study time was premium. Most recommendations are
15 minutes to a half hour a day. That hardly makes it possible in a week. I
used the words " "AT LEAST" 2 WEEKS". Some are faster learners than others,
that is a given. BUT my point was, you have to get started to learn
ANYTHING. You can't absorb it through osmosis. Back to the timing thing, I
hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how much time they
were given to get the code down. I think they had to "Cram".

Maybe you never
will use it again.

Perhaps. I've found little use for it so far. Maybe once I'm an old
fart, have loads of time, and wax nostalgic for things that never were,
I'll take it up and enjoy it, and demand that all learn it.


Probably the same age bracket as me. I do listen to call signs now and then
on the scanner to pick out the services they represent - if I don't
immediately know who the service is. I do listen some times to code on the
H.F. Bands.

There are many things you learn in life and may never use
again, unless you plan to play on Jeopardy. Many people learned the
skeletal
system in health class, microorganisms in Biology class. It doesn't
mean
they use it now. Probably forgot it as soon as they graduated. But,
it was
"required". It's not a big deal people. Once you get past the "do I
have to"
and start doing it, you'll amaze yourself at how fast and easy it can
be.

Indeed. I never had the "do I have to?" attitude as there was no
code-free license when I became a ham. Yet it took me about 9 weeks of
daily practice.


And you stuck with it!!!!!!!! You didn't quit, and it got you where you
wanted to be. OR had to be - for your class of license. 2 weeks, 9 weeks, so
what... you did it. A milestone to be proud of. No one can fault you for
that effort.

I
DO use code now and then, but not daily like many others do. Everyone
has
their own thing. Some are into Packet, RTTY, AMTOR, etc, I'm not...
To each
his own. But we all had to learn "something" about those modes to
pass an
exam.

cl

Use it all you want. I'm against the Code Exam as an unnecessary
government requirement.


Funny thing is, we're all arguing pros and cons and in the end, it won't
matter. WE do not have control. So, if we're going to debate the issues we
have no control over, may as well keep it clean. Hardly any of us know the
other and it isn't worth making enemies over. Certainly not worth name
calling.... Whether I'm right or wrong, I do value opposing view points.
Everyone has a right to his/her own opinion. It sure will be interesting to
see how it all unfolds. I think in the end, we both know the answer to that.
Pro or con, it is a matter of time. May be a year, may be 5, but it will
come to pass.

cl

cl wrote:


which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few
minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test.

Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get
to 5 wpm.

I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some
understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people.

I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a
lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
cl wrote:


which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a
few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a
test.

Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to
5 wpm.

I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some
understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people.

I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot
of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Ok.... It took "me" 2 weeks, I know others who learned it quickly, but I
can't provide a time frame. Yes, code "can" be harder for others to pick up.
I don't doubt that for a minute. Point is, you have to put one foot in front
of the other and stick with it, to get down the path to learn it. Many don't
want to start, and whine about it without ever putting forth effort. Hell, I
know people who bitched about having to look at the "basic" Q/A manual! One
remark was "Do I "have" to learn all this?" Another - "Do I "have" to read
all these questions?" But yet they want a license. Pure laziness. Licenses
should be "earned" not given away. People are least likely to respect
something "given" to them. The bands are already showing signs of
deterioration from people who just don't care.

cl

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
cl wrote:


which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a
few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a
test.

Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to
5 wpm.

I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some
understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people.

I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot
of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid.

- Mike KB3EIA -

I agree with you Mike. I hate it when I hear someone say "it only took me a
few days" as that raises unrealistic expectations on the part of the
students. It becomes very hard to convince them that they will probably
need more time than that and to keep them motivated to keep working on it.
The average person needs 30 hours of study (1/2 per EVERY day for 60 days)
to get there. Some will take longer such as yourself but at least once they
have put in the 30 hours, they will be able to tell that they are making
progress even if it takes longer for them.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

cl wrote:


which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a
few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a
test.

Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test
to get
to 5 wpm.

I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show
some
understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people.

I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to
a
lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid.

- Mike KB3EIA -

You have a good point Mike. I have seldom had any problems with written
exams, but passing a Morse test was hell. Those of us who have had trouble
learning Morse have taken a lot of abuse in this group. You hit the nail on
the head when you said you wouldn't do the same if someone had trouble with
the theory.

wrote in news:1113743129.236382.299700
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:


Mel A. Nomah wrote:
"Hamguy" wrote in message
...

: http://www.hamwave.com/cgi-bin/index...iewnews&id=689

That link supposes that the fcc will delete the Morse requirement.

Other insiders suggest fcc will NPRM will delete Morse only for
General license, and will INCREASE the test to 20WPM for renewed Extra
class, downgrading all current "Extra Lite" licenses to resurrected
Advanced license (the second time this license has risen from the
ashes). ARRL giveaway program will be denied.

All it really says is that the FCC is working on an NPRM that may be
out as soon as next month or as late as July. That NPRM will obviously
contain what FCC wants to do as a result of WRC 2003 and the 18
restructuring petitions.

Once the NPRM becomes public, there will be a comment period, then a
reply comment period. Couple of months at least, maybe longer. Probably
the end of 2005 before comments close.

Then FCC will decide what to do and formulate a Report and Order. Last
time they did this it took almost a year. Which translates to fall
2006. Then a couple months before the new rules become effective -
maybe end of 2006.

Of course it could take even longer, or maybe a bit less. But I
wouldn't expect any changes before summer 2006 - and wouldn't be
surprised if it were summer 2007.

73 de Jim, N2EY


You're being a Jonah again, Jim. the announcement guesstimates all done
within a year, i.e. by spring '06. Sounds about right to me. Granted that
the comments about what the FCC might do (and the title of the post) were
all the poster's own, and not Hamwave's.

My own crystal ball guess is that the FCC will just delete the code test
and rearrange some subbands around this time next year. That's still much
longer than I originally thought.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
wrote in news:1113743129.236382.299700
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Mel A. Nomah wrote:
"Hamguy" wrote in message
...

: http://www.hamwave.com/cgi-bin/index...iewnews&id=689

That link supposes that the fcc will delete the Morse requirement.

Other insiders suggest fcc will NPRM will delete Morse only for
General license, and will INCREASE the test to 20WPM for renewed
Extra
class, downgrading all current "Extra Lite" licenses to
resurrected
Advanced license (the second time this license has risen from the
ashes). ARRL giveaway program will be denied.

All it really says is that the FCC is working on an NPRM that may
be
out as soon as next month or as late as July. That NPRM will
obviously
contain what FCC wants to do as a result of WRC 2003 and the 18
restructuring petitions.

Once the NPRM becomes public, there will be a comment period, then
a
reply comment period. Couple of months at least, maybe longer.
Probably
the end of 2005 before comments close.

This is based on what FCC has done in the past.

Then FCC will decide what to do and formulate a Report and Order.
Last
time they did this it took almost a year. Which translates to fall
2006. Then a couple months before the new rules become effective -
maybe end of 2006.

Of course it could take even longer, or maybe a bit less. But I
wouldn't expect any changes before summer 2006 - and wouldn't be
surprised if it were summer 2007.

73 de Jim, N2EY


You're being a Jonah again, Jim.

Hello Alun,

I'm not sure what you mean by "being a Jonah".

Does it have anything to do with the bible story of Jonah and the whale
- aka "You Can't Keep A Good Man Down"?

the announcement guesstimates all done
within a year, i.e. by spring '06.

So they meant *next* summer (2006), not *this* summer (2005).

Sounds about right to me. Granted that
the comments about what the FCC might do (and the title of the post)
were
all the poster's own, and not Hamwave's.

Exactly.

My time estimates are based on what FCC has done in the past on a
number of issues. FCC doesn't seem to be in any big hurry to change the
rules - heck, it's been over 5 years since the last restructure, over
21 months since WRC 2003 ended, and yet there's no NPRM on the street
yet.

My own crystal ball guess is that the FCC will just delete the code
test
and rearrange some subbands around this time next year. That's still
much
longer than I originally thought.

My guess is there will be some more-substantive changes, and that the
code test deletion isn't a done deal - yet.

I base the above on the fact that FCC could have simply dumped Element
1 back in summer 2003, without an NPRM, comments, or any of the rest.
They received at least two proposals to do just that. All it would take
is for FCC to say, in effect: "This subject was discussed thoroughly
back in 1998-1999, and we kept Element 1 only because of the treaty.
Now the treaty's gone, so we're dropping Element 1." Or some such
verbiage - the basic idea is still the same. There's a procedure for
such changes.

Yet there have been no changes yet, just proposals *to* FCC, and
comments.

Last time FCC did a restructure, the comment period was what -
six-seven months or more? Then it took about 11 months for the Report
and Order, and another four months or so before the rules changed.
That's over 20 months from NPRM to new rules in effect. 21 months from
summer 2005 is spring 2007.

Maybe FCC will say something at Dayton. Maybe not.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote in news:1114118689.984407.281600
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:
wrote in news:1113743129.236382.299700
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Mel A. Nomah wrote:
"Hamguy" wrote in message
...

: http://www.hamwave.com/cgi-bin/index...iewnews&id=689

That link supposes that the fcc will delete the Morse requirement.

Other insiders suggest fcc will NPRM will delete Morse only for
General license, and will INCREASE the test to 20WPM for renewed
Extra class, downgrading all current "Extra Lite" licenses to
resurrected Advanced license (the second time this license has
risen from the ashes). ARRL giveaway program will be denied.

All it really says is that the FCC is working on an NPRM that may be
out as soon as next month or as late as July. That NPRM will
obviously contain what FCC wants to do as a result of WRC 2003 and
the 18 restructuring petitions.

Once the NPRM becomes public, there will be a comment period, then a
reply comment period. Couple of months at least, maybe longer.
Probably the end of 2005 before comments close.

This is based on what FCC has done in the past.

Then FCC will decide what to do and formulate a Report and Order.
Last time they did this it took almost a year. Which translates to
fall 2006. Then a couple months before the new rules become
effective - maybe end of 2006.

Of course it could take even longer, or maybe a bit less. But I
wouldn't expect any changes before summer 2006 - and wouldn't be
surprised if it were summer 2007.

73 de Jim, N2EY


You're being a Jonah again, Jim.

Hello Alun,

I'm not sure what you mean by "being a Jonah".

Does it have anything to do with the bible story of Jonah and the whale
- aka "You Can't Keep A Good Man Down"?

It means someone preaching doom


the announcement guesstimates all done within a year, i.e. by spring
'06.

So they meant *next* summer (2006), not *this* summer (2005).

Sounds about right to me. Granted that the comments about what the FCC
might do (and the title of the post) were all the poster's own, and
not Hamwave's.

Exactly.

My time estimates are based on what FCC has done in the past on a
number of issues. FCC doesn't seem to be in any big hurry to change the
rules - heck, it's been over 5 years since the last restructure, over
21 months since WRC 2003 ended, and yet there's no NPRM on the street
yet.

My own crystal ball guess is that the FCC will just delete the code
test and rearrange some subbands around this time next year. That's
still much longer than I originally thought.

My guess is there will be some more-substantive changes, and that the
code test deletion isn't a done deal - yet.

I base the above on the fact that FCC could have simply dumped Element
1 back in summer 2003, without an NPRM, comments, or any of the rest.
They received at least two proposals to do just that. All it would take
is for FCC to say, in effect: "This subject was discussed thoroughly
back in 1998-1999, and we kept Element 1 only because of the treaty.
Now the treaty's gone, so we're dropping Element 1." Or some such
verbiage - the basic idea is still the same. There's a procedure for
such changes.

Yet there have been no changes yet, just proposals *to* FCC, and
comments.

Last time FCC did a restructure, the comment period was what -
six-seven months or more? Then it took about 11 months for the Report
and Order, and another four months or so before the rules changed.
That's over 20 months from NPRM to new rules in effect. 21 months from
summer 2005 is spring 2007.

Maybe FCC will say something at Dayton. Maybe not.

73 de Jim, N2EY