Michael A. Terrell wrote:
cl wrote:

The local ham club is looking for people to take classes with "Now
Your Talking" rather than try to find people with any electronics
background. I offered to help maintain their club equipment but they
brushed me off because I don't have a ham ticket. I still have a
half
way decent RF bench, but nothing compared to the $1,000,000 plus
benches
of test equipment I had at Microdyne.

That's all well and good Mike and no doubt you're a quite competent RF
tech, not even a discussion. But I think you're missing some critical
points here. Rumors to the contrary ham radio is overwhelmingly a
communications hobby, it is NOT an electronics hobby as such. Sure
there are any number of high-end electronics gurus who also have ham
tickets and exercise their skills on the bands, in the clubs and even
in this funny-farm of a USENET group. But they're not the heart & soul
of ham radio today for certain and I'm not particularly convinced they
ever were. In general the average ham learns as much about electronics
as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on
average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play equipment.
Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is.

In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane
details of electronics amongst the average members of the average
neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your offer
to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their radios,
they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken radios
off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking"
fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham
radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and
prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a
bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any interest in
an offer to "help".

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

w3rv

wrote:

That's all well and good Mike and no doubt you're a quite competent RF
tech, not even a discussion. But I think you're missing some critical
points here. Rumors to the contrary ham radio is overwhelmingly a
communications hobby, it is NOT an electronics hobby as such. Sure
there are any number of high-end electronics gurus who also have ham
tickets and exercise their skills on the bands, in the clubs and even
in this funny-farm of a USENET group. But they're not the heart & soul
of ham radio today for certain and I'm not particularly convinced they
ever were.


Most of the hams I knew as a kid were home brewers. They were not
designers but they could build a piece of equipment form a magazine
article or the handbook. I lived about an hour from Mendelson's in
dayton Ohio, and I ran into a lot of hams there, digging through the
unmarked bins of parts to build their latest project or repair one of
their projects.


In general the average ham learns as much about electronics
as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on
average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play equipment.
Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is.


The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what
kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of
"Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals really don't
inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs. Not that I prefer
tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years. Maybe
the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment. A
lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component is
NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will
still work when they are 20 years old?


I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all their
repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.


In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane
details of electronics amongst the average members of the average
neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your offer
to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their radios,
they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken radios
off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking"
fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham
radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and
prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a
bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any interest in
an offer to "help".

w3rv

Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me
they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't have
access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of my
shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair business
if I had what they needed and was laughed at. As far as weapons, I have
used a bow but I prefer an M-72. ;-)



A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out
including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew
receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had lost
the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he
asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me that
he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to
find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the only
one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it down
and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little
math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the receiver
came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better than
spending hours on the air to me. Different strokes?

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

wrote:

That's all well and good Mike and no doubt you're a quite competent RF
tech, not even a discussion. But I think you're missing some critical
points here. Rumors to the contrary ham radio is overwhelmingly a
communications hobby, it is NOT an electronics hobby as such. Sure
there are any number of high-end electronics gurus who also have ham
tickets and exercise their skills on the bands, in the clubs and even
in this funny-farm of a USENET group. But they're not the heart & soul
of ham radio today for certain and I'm not particularly convinced they
ever were.



Most of the hams I knew as a kid were home brewers. They were not
designers but they could build a piece of equipment form a magazine
article or the handbook. I lived about an hour from Mendelson's in
dayton Ohio, and I ran into a lot of hams there, digging through the
unmarked bins of parts to build their latest project or repair one of
their projects.



In general the average ham learns as much about electronics
as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on
average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play equipment.
Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is.



The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what
kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of
"Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals really don't
inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs. Not that I prefer
tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years.

I like the modern equipment, but hollow state equipment is simply cool.
Now that I have my main station set up, I'm going to start putting
together some old tube rigs. Oh yeah!


Maybe
the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment. A
lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component is
NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will
still work when they are 20 years old?


I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all their
repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.

Mike, if I may be blunt, that is a pretty ****ty club. Pardon my French!



In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane
details of electronics amongst the average members of the average
neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your offer
to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their radios,
they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken radios
off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking"
fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham
radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and
prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a
bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any interest in
an offer to "help".

w3rv


Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me
they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't have
access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of my
shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair business
if I had what they needed and was laughed at.

AS I said, a poor excuse for a club.....

As far as weapons, I have
used a bow but I prefer an M-72. ;-)



A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out
including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew
receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had lost
the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he
asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me that
he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to
find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the only
one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it down
and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little
math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the receiver
came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better than
spending hours on the air to me. Different strokes?

Different strokes indeed. The ARS has room for many different types. It
sounds as if we would get along just fine.

I'll bet you felt just darn good when you got to help that fellow.

Sounds to me as if you *have* found your place in the hobby. Seems like
a good one to me.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what
kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of
"Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals really don't
inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs. Not that I prefer
tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years.

I like the modern equipment, but hollow state equipment is simply cool.
Now that I have my main station set up, I'm going to start putting
together some old tube rigs. Oh yeah!

Maybe
the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment. A
lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component is
NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will
still work when they are 20 years old?


I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all their
repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.

Mike, if I may be blunt, that is a pretty ****ty club. Pardon my French!


I wasn't impressed by them.

Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me
they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't have
access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of my
shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair business
if I had what they needed and was laughed at.

AS I said, a poor excuse for a club.....


I gave up on them and decide I don't want to join them. I offered to
help plan the next hamfest and maintain a E-mail list for them. They
asked if I had the money to pay the year's dues first, then told me,
"Real hams will know about it, anyway"

A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out
including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew
receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had lost
the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he
asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me that
he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to
find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the only
one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it down
and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little
math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the receiver
came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better than
spending hours on the air to me. Different strokes?

Different strokes indeed. The ARS has room for many different types. It
sounds as if we would get along just fine.

I'll bet you felt just darn good when you got to help that fellow.


Yes, it was a good day at the bench. Much better than some whining
CBer who bitched at paying $7.50 to put a plug on their third microphone
that month.

Sounds to me as if you *have* found your place in the hobby. Seems like
a good one to me.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Yes, I've always enjoyed the equipment more than using it, and I have
lost interest in getting a station on the air so I'll keep collecting
and repairing old gear as long as I'm able to do it. I have a couple
kids who are supposed to help me clean out my shop this summer so i can
see how much equipment I can salvage. I still have the benches wrapped
in plastic from last year's hurricanes. I pray they miss us this year.
Three in my area were just too much.


I have a couple websites, but no good pictures of the three shop
buildings to put up, yet. Maybe I can do it this fall.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
wrote:


Most of the hams I knew as a kid were home brewers. They were not
designers but they could build a piece of equipment form a magazine
article or the handbook. I lived about an hour from Mendelson's in
dayton Ohio, and I ran into a lot of hams there, digging through the
unmarked bins of parts to build their latest project or repair one of
their projects.

Been there, did that. I built my first SW receiver from junk parts I
picked up along Radio Row in Philly. Radio Merit Badge booklet in hand
circa 1950. Things have changed a bit since then though . . . (?!)

In general the average ham learns as much about electronics
as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on
average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play
equipment.
Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is.


The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what
kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of
"Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals

Maybe it's happened but personally I've never heard of an instance of
anyone with a broken mainstream radio not being able to fix it or get
it fixed because the manuals and/or the schematics couldn't be located.
Parts are another story but that's SOP. Try to buy all the parts for a
1980 Ford from a dealer.

really don't
inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs.

All commodity widgets have design lifetimes particularly when they are
based in the fast-moving field of electronics Japanese and otherwise.
But there are tens of thousands of 20-year-old pieces of complex ham
gear still regularly on the air. I can't imagine why you would expect
any more than that for the service life of chunks of entertainment
electronics.

Not that I prefer
tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years. Maybe
the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment.
A
lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component
is
NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will
still work when they are 20 years old?

I have no idea but a buddy of mine has an IC-781 xcvr which cost him
over $6k 18 years ago and it's color LCD display still works as well as
it did out-of-the-box. Boeing is replacing the conventional instruments
in it's airliner panels with color LCD panels which better last 20
years and more or Boeing is gonna get spanked plenty.

I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all
their
repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told
me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.

Are you kidding? That's nuts. With all due respect I'd like to hear the
other side of that one.

In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane
details of electronics amongst the average members of the average
neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your
offer
to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their
radios,
they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken
radios
off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking"
fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham
radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and
prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a
bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any
interest in
an offer to "help".

w3rv

Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me
they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't
have
access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of
my
shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair
business
if I had what they needed and was laughed at.

Makes no sense at all, I'd leap on an offer like that if I needed acess
to an RF bench because I'm really ill-equipped in this area. Must be
something in their water.

As far as weapons, I have
used a bow but I prefer an M-72. ;-)

Yeah, RIGHT . . ! Whoosh: Thud. So re-up, Rumsfeld is offering bonuses.


A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out
including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew
receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had
lost
the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he
asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me
that
he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to
find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the
only
one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it
down
and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little
math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the
receiver
came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better
than
spending hours on the air to me.

Nice job. Could not agree more.

In a contorted way it appears that thee and me are basically the same
basic breed of radio alley cat. Bear with me here. It's a tale. I got
into ham radio over a half century because I wanted to move up from
SWLing and just reading National Geographic as a kid to get on the air
and communicate with others in foreign places. I'm still at it and in
my mind the magic of DXing the HF airwaves hasn't diminished a bit.

Here's part of the convergence: For the most part I simply can't stand
most neighborhood radio clubs for all the reasons you've cited recently
here and there in this NG. The poltics, the general clulessness, the
rambling disorganization, the lack of interest in my particular hot
buttons, etc. So I don't bother with 'em.

Different strokes?

You bet. I found my "cure" for the local radio clubs many years ago.
I'm a member of a wide-area regional ham club which is tightly focused
of HF DXing and DX contesting, a bunch who have the same narrow
interests I have. Works for me, maybe the format would work for you.

There's some huge number of electronics hobbyists across the country
including hams who get their jollies from tube electronics. Since
you're in what amounts to "geezer alley" in central Florida I expect
that there is a higher concentration of "tube huggers"there than one
would find elsewhere in the country. If I had your interests and lived
where you do I'd seriously consider poking around the area for others
of your ilk to clump with and form some sort of club centered on tube
radio, etc.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

w3rv

wrote:

Maybe it's happened but personally I've never heard of an instance of
anyone with a broken mainstream radio not being able to fix it or get
it fixed because the manuals and/or the schematics couldn't be located.
Parts are another story but that's SOP.


It was a constant battle to find parts to manufacture several models
at Microdyne. Manufacturers would drop parts, whole product lines or
merge with another company and disappear. We had to stop building
several models because to cost to completely redesign the radio was more
than the expected sales. As a stopgap a few boards were converted to a
SMD and through hole mix, but that only bough a couple years.


All commodity widgets have design lifetimes particularly when they are
based in the fast-moving field of electronics Japanese and otherwise.
But there are tens of thousands of 20-year-old pieces of complex ham
gear still regularly on the air. I can't imagine why you would expect
any more than that for the service life of chunks of entertainment
electronics.

I don't run out and buy the latest and greatest toy of the week.
Most of the electronics i have are ten years old, or older. This
computer is over five years old but it still allows me to to do what I
have time for.

I have no idea but a buddy of mine has an IC-781 xcvr which cost him
over $6k 18 years ago and it's color LCD display still works as well as
it did out-of-the-box. Boeing is replacing the conventional instruments
in it's airliner panels with color LCD panels which better last 20
years and more or Boeing is gonna get spanked plenty.

They would just replace it and the driver with newer designs. On the
other hand Avionics has to meet strict standards so it is in a state of
constant change. No airline will ground a plane because they need
$20,000 worth of new electronics. I saw a news release a while back that
some of the early 747s were being retrofitted with the latest control
systems. On the other hand, there is a limited number of years the
airframe can be used and there is a thriving business in used parts.

Then they told me
to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with
repairs.

Are you kidding? That's nuts. With all due respect I'd like to hear the
other side of that one.

They told me they only used parts they could trust and never used any
old stock. What do they think they get on small orders from small
distributors? The parts have been on the shelf, somewhere. Sure you
can get oxidation on leads if improperly stored, but its not like they
are in damp cardboard boxes in my back yard. I think the real issue was
that they retired from Lockheed-Martin, and I had worked for Microdyne.
There was a rivalry, even though Lockheed-Martin was one of our
customers.


As far as weapons, I have
used a bow but I prefer an M-72. ;-)

Yeah, RIGHT . . ! Whoosh: Thud. So re-up, Rumsfeld is offering bonuses.

I'm over 50 and I'm disabled.


I charged him $10 and he hurried
home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better
than spending hours on the air to me.

Nice job. Could not agree more.

In a contorted way it appears that thee and me are basically the same
basic breed of radio alley cat. Bear with me here. It's a tale. I got
into ham radio over a half century because I wanted to move up from
SWLing and just reading National Geographic as a kid to get on the air
and communicate with others in foreign places. I'm still at it and in
my mind the magic of DXing the HF airwaves hasn't diminished a bit.

Here's part of the convergence: For the most part I simply can't stand
most neighborhood radio clubs for all the reasons you've cited recently
here and there in this NG. The poltics, the general clulessness, the
rambling disorganization, the lack of interest in my particular hot
buttons, etc. So I don't bother with 'em.

Different strokes?

You bet. I found my "cure" for the local radio clubs many years ago.
I'm a member of a wide-area regional ham club which is tightly focused
of HF DXing and DX contesting, a bunch who have the same narrow
interests I have. Works for me, maybe the format would work for you.

There's some huge number of electronics hobbyists across the country
including hams who get their jollies from tube electronics. Since
you're in what amounts to "geezer alley" in central Florida I expect
that there is a higher concentration of "tube huggers"there than one
would find elsewhere in the country. If I had your interests and lived
where you do I'd seriously consider poking around the area for others
of your ilk to clump with and form some sort of club centered on tube
radio, etc.

Most of the old timers around here have the attitude that they
stopped fixing anything the day they retired. There is a HUGE
retirement community near here that has spread into three counties. It
is full of retirees who think any manual labor is beneath them. They all
hire lawn services, they aren't allowed to change their car's oil on
their deed restricted property and no antennas so the hams there all use
handhelds. They are the most self centered people I have ever met.
They also have the highest rate of STDs in senior citizens in the
country. Not many electronics people around here. Its the "I built a
computer" crowd who wouldn't know which end of a soldering iron to pick
up till they smell burning flesh.

I was on the advisory board for the Lake County Vo-Tech Electronics
program. It was the highest rated in the state but the school board
shut it down. I haven't found anything here in Marion County. One high
school had a similar program, but shut it down as well. its no wonder
the few technology businesses are down sizing locally and shipping the
jobs to other parts of the country.


--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida