wrote:
an old friend wrote:
wrote:
What you folks are describing is just a form of RTTY using Morse Code
as the encoding method, rather than ASCII or Baudot or some other scheme.

indeed we are

Glad you agree

Of course it can be done, and has been done. Why it would be done is
another issue. It is certainly not a "better way".

that does depend on the goal, and the operator.

True enough.

Personaly I find the
idea of the manual morse and compter morse interacting the only
redeeming virtue of the mode (please I know you disagree but go along
for a minute)

It's just *one* good thing about Morse Code (the ease and flexibility
of
human-machine interface. There are many more good things (redeeming
virtues?) of Morse Code.

IYO

not in mine

it is a fact manual morse is quite useless to me and others


That someone could use the simple assembly of the QRP rig
to reach out to a station like mine reading fby machine and sending it
back the same way.

One more tool in the toolbox.

and yet you opose allowing me in the playing feild at all

My station is at least one if not several such tool but you don't wish
to allow it without ahvng that ONE tool


It is one the few occasion I can realy see much use
in the mode during an emergency gives the user the low signal abilities
of RTTY or PSK 31 but allowing the station in the affected area to
despense with a PC

If the operators know Morse Code, there's no reason for a PC at either
station.

agreed but so what

this doesn't justify keeping me from being there and using my sation to
help the pcles staion


Thus it is 'better" in some ways, indeed I am a much better operator of
computer morse than manual and it would make my staion a bteer station
by your standards (more modes more abilities)

In that regard, it is "better". But it is not universally "better",
just as an automobile is not universally "better" than a bicycle.

I have never said it was

it is your side that varies from stating or impling that Manaul is
always better which just isn't so


so where your beef?

The idea that machine operation is somehow universally better.

and my beef is your insitance that manual morse is always better


it is not your cup of tea sure fine

Consider a bicycle. If another wheel is added, the rider doesn't need
to worry about falling over, so the skill required to ride it is
greatly reduced.
Add a small gasoline engine and a suitable transmission, and
pedaling becomes much easier. A simple cover will protect the rider
from rain
and other inclement weather.

Eventually you wind up with a small, three-wheeled automobile that
could win
the Tour de France. Except it's not a bicycle anymore, and its rider
isn't
a cyclist by any stretch of the imagination.

Or consider the piano. Pianos and similar keyboard instruments have
been around
for hundreds of years. It takes considerable skill and practice to play
them, and
reading sheet music is a skill of its own.

With modern computers and software, however, one can simply have a
machine that
scans in the sheet music and turns it into a "performance" - without
all those
lessons, practice, etc.

break
all depends on what you want, to listen or to play

Point is, there's a big difference.

which by analogy is up to me. Id rather listen than play that tune

and what about Manual Morse justifies making ME play that tune?

From: John Smith on Aug 4, 2:20 pm


N2EY:

My gawd man, must you apply antique analogies to everything which is
attempting to break archaic methods to attempt to obfuscate anything you
don't like and/or agree with?

John, he MUST. It's an obsessive compulsion. :-)

That's Jimmie for sure, the Nun of the Above. Predictable.


Technology has passed you by man, the reins
have passed, what you are holding in your hands are the ashes of
yesteryear... don't embarrass yourself and others about you... speak on
things you understand, or not at all...

Oh, oh, Jimmie will now remark on his TWO degrees in EE and his
years-as-a-ham (like he spent 8 hours a day, 7 days a week in
pounding his brass on the ham bands). :-)

The Order of Luddism is upon Jimmie and EVERYTHING must be done
manually in communications! Just like in the 20s and 30s during
the pioneering days of radio. Jimmie bravely carries his cross
for them (provided Kellie doesn't shoot the bear).

He segues to music (morse is "music" to his ears...and years).
He probably hasn't heard a good musician at work on a synthesizer
keyboard producing the enjoyable sound of an entire band...in any
style of music you like. Down here there's dozens and dozens of
them...busy working.

You say that RTTY is "dead" but it hasn't "died" yet since it
carries on with the TORs (Teleprinter Over Radio) such as AMTOR.
The FCC, nor any of its three predecessors, NEVER had a manual
teleprinter test for radio amateur license applicants. They've
"always" had one for manual telegraphy. That's the REAL
subject of WT Docket 05-235.

Just leave Jimmie alone with his abacus/soroban and he can do
all his Eigenvalues by hand plus a table of elliptic integrals.
Very basic calculator. However, beyond the four functions it
gets cranky...forget simple square-roots, for example. A Taylor
Series for a correct Sine or Cosine is going to take a lonnnnng
while to finish on his buttons-on-wires soroban/abacus. :-)

insert small bg tape of "she ain't got no yo-yo" song...

sin cos

Dee:

Some would argue Latin is not dead, churches and doctors still use it...

It is dead, both cw and morse, some may live to see the proof, some
may not have long enough. This is the digital age.

Here in this newsgroup you can find many who try to form religious
doctrine over out dated specs, faqs and past limitations of the net. This
type of behavior is seen in many groups of individuals, the "control
freaks" are here on the web too.

There is a real cult which has formed around CW, they have their
church, high priests, hierarchy and devoted following, you might refer to
them as "CW Groupies" if CW was the name of a rock band.

The data transmission protocols which could be used on amateur radio as we
speak here are mind numbing. However, phone and cw do server hobby uses
here. But, data transmission of binaries, graphics, movies, etc. are not
suited to either. Two bursts of encrypted/compressed packets happening a
a blink of an eye can fill your screen with enough text to keep you
reading for two minutes. Or, an IM protocol could be employed in "text
chat" with one freq serving as a party line and only grabbing packets they
are interested in... possibilities are endless...

No, no one would pause at a simple cw reader, you would allow two machines
to chat together, no human needs to tap a key, it is far below what the
human mind was meant to do, it is akin to pounding on a skin covered drum,
however, if MadMax ever happens, I will grant you it may have a use,
"God" forbid that ever occurs... but then, if it does, there will be tons
of CB radios out there which will be pressed into use... they will be
able to be found in almost any diesel truck on the highway, and base
stations in the smallest of towns, alternators removed from cars and
driven by small gas engines off lawn mowers, etc.

I don't think there is going to be that many hams with a key in their hand
saving the human race... and you will not likely know the heroes until
the event happens... the greatest plans of mice and men...and all that...

But, hey, the dreams of men are what keeps them going, and there is always
only a problem when they attempt to force their dreams on
others--especially when the dreams become decades old... become brittle
and turn to dust in the face of harsh reality...

John


John

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 17:47:53 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Len:

It is not even close...

The end of all that design in computer hardware and software, when
efficient and up-to-date, would be impossible for a human operator to send
let alone receive without hardware and software... RTTY is as dead as
CW...

John

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 10:22:01 -0700, an old friend wrote:


Every mode has its advantages and disadvantages. Neither RTTY nor CW is
dead. One just has more choices than in the past.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee:

.... in the above "cw and morse" should be "cw and rtty" ...

Mainly I am explaining for the brain dead males here, they seem to go into
utter states of confusion if words are not spelled exactly correct, or
typo are encountered...

Just between you and me, I know the women seldom suffer such devastating
limitations and disabilities...

John

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 17:58:23 -0700, John Smith wrote:

Dee:

Some would argue Latin is not dead, churches and doctors still use it...

It is dead, both cw and morse, some may live to see the proof, some
may not have long enough. This is the digital age.

Here in this newsgroup you can find many who try to form religious
doctrine over out dated specs, faqs and past limitations of the net. This
type of behavior is seen in many groups of individuals, the "control
freaks" are here on the web too.

There is a real cult which has formed around CW, they have their
church, high priests, hierarchy and devoted following, you might refer to
them as "CW Groupies" if CW was the name of a rock band.

The data transmission protocols which could be used on amateur radio as we
speak here are mind numbing. However, phone and cw do server hobby uses
here. But, data transmission of binaries, graphics, movies, etc. are not
suited to either. Two bursts of encrypted/compressed packets happening a
a blink of an eye can fill your screen with enough text to keep you
reading for two minutes. Or, an IM protocol could be employed in "text
chat" with one freq serving as a party line and only grabbing packets they
are interested in... possibilities are endless...

No, no one would pause at a simple cw reader, you would allow two machines
to chat together, no human needs to tap a key, it is far below what the
human mind was meant to do, it is akin to pounding on a skin covered drum,
however, if MadMax ever happens, I will grant you it may have a use,
"God" forbid that ever occurs... but then, if it does, there will be tons
of CB radios out there which will be pressed into use... they will be
able to be found in almost any diesel truck on the highway, and base
stations in the smallest of towns, alternators removed from cars and
driven by small gas engines off lawn mowers, etc.

I don't think there is going to be that many hams with a key in their hand
saving the human race... and you will not likely know the heroes until
the event happens... the greatest plans of mice and men...and all that...

But, hey, the dreams of men are what keeps them going, and there is always
only a problem when they attempt to force their dreams on
others--especially when the dreams become decades old... become brittle
and turn to dust in the face of harsh reality...

John


John

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 17:47:53 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Len:

It is not even close...

The end of all that design in computer hardware and software, when
efficient and up-to-date, would be impossible for a human operator to send
let alone receive without hardware and software... RTTY is as dead as
CW...

John

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 10:22:01 -0700, an old friend wrote:


Every mode has its advantages and disadvantages. Neither RTTY nor CW is
dead. One just has more choices than in the past.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Are you asking now?

Yes, I'm asking (again).

wrote:
Are you asking now?


Yes, I'm asking (again).


I just purchased a new Morse training tape. It was blank.

wrote:
Are you asking now?

Yes, I'm asking (again).

OK, fair enough.

I've got Billy. We'll make the exchange at Checkpoint Charlie in 72
hours. And no tricks. There will be observers in Blue helmuts, and a
Tennessee registered Cessna buzzing the checkpoint.

bb