Mike Coslo wrote:
N9OGL wrote:
From the FCC Rule Book: Complete Guide to the FCC Regulations Governing
Amateur Radio; edited by Norm Bliss,WA1CCQ, Published by the ARRL

Chapter 4, Page 4-2 Direct and Indirect Payment


"You must never accept any money or other consideration for operating
your station [97.113(a)(2)]. this is consistent with one of the prime
directives of our serice:

Specifically:

(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or
indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;


Never? Who said "never"?

the ARRL said so



What is compensation? How about the public service event support where
the volunteers are expected to wear a hat or t-shirt? And the sponsors
give all the volunteers that piece of clothing. Must the Hams refuse?

wearing thier unidform is more questionable but I would agree that it
certainly can be seen that way

What if the sponsors says "sorry, if you don't abide by our rules, we'll
have to do this some other way"?

Is accepting that glass of water compensation?

techinicaly yes


Better yet, during field day, I drank a lot of soda provided by some
club members. Is that compensation?

FD is a ham activity


"Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service
to the public as a voluntary, noncommercial communication service,
particularly with respect providing emergency communication" (emphasis
added) [97.1(a)]


Of course.

If you club is providing communications support to the town of Needham
for a parade, you cannot accept their offer of payment for your work.
You are volunteers, providing a community service on a non-commercial
basis, period

No money should ever change hands.


You should never accept anything for your Amateur Radio operating.
The FCC prohibits operation of an amateur station "for hire, or
material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised"
[97.113(a)(2)] This includes direct payment (money, goods, food, and so
on) and indirect payment (publicity, advertising, and so on)."

What if one of the people in that parade gives you a ride home? We get

techinaly yes

thank you letters all the time, and mentioned in these groups
newsletters. Is this in violation?

not if we don't ask for them


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It rather funny that K1MAN get's fined $21,000 for Pecuniary Interest
and the ARRL is allowed to do this. What go for one person should apply
to all. The ARRL should be fined by the FCC for doing this!

There is a significant difference between compensation (which the FCC
allows in some circumstances, and having expenses covered. For me to
move a station down to one of these states in trouble for a week or two
is going to put considerable expense on me. A kilobuck for a plane
ticket each way), a weeks worth of food, (probably around 150 if I'm
careful) and hotel expenses (say $700). Plus a weeks worth of vacation
means I'm giving up around 3-4 kilobucks depending on how you add it up.

and the rules as written don't seem to allow it the ARRL has been
pushing the view that it is forbidden. That these rules are IMO wrong
alters not the facts of what the rules are

Vacation isn't a compensable item IMO, but we simply aren't going to
get many people to help on-site during these disasters if there isn't
some form of compensation.

- Mike KB3EIA -

an_old_friend wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

N9OGL wrote:

From the FCC Rule Book: Complete Guide to the FCC Regulations Governing
Amateur Radio; edited by Norm Bliss,WA1CCQ, Published by the ARRL

Chapter 4, Page 4-2 Direct and Indirect Payment


"You must never accept any money or other consideration for operating
your station [97.113(a)(2)]. this is consistent with one of the prime
directives of our serice:

Specifically:

(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or
indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;


Never? Who said "never"?


the ARRL said so

Then they are incorrect. Reading part 97, which shows specific
instances when compensation is allowable is right there in the rules.



What is compensation? How about the public service event support where
the volunteers are expected to wear a hat or t-shirt? And the sponsors
give all the volunteers that piece of clothing. Must the Hams refuse?


wearing thier unidform is more questionable but I would agree that it
certainly can be seen that way


What if the sponsors says "sorry, if you don't abide by our rules, we'll
have to do this some other way"?

Is accepting that glass of water compensation?


techinicaly yes


Better yet, during field day, I drank a lot of soda provided by some
club members. Is that compensation?


FD is a ham activity

But I was a Ham who got about 20 sodas free of charge that I wouldn't
have otherwise. Hey this years FD was around 10o degrees! 8^)


"Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service
to the public as a voluntary, noncommercial communication service,
particularly with respect providing emergency communication" (emphasis
added) [97.1(a)]


Of course.


If you club is providing communications support to the town of Needham
for a parade, you cannot accept their offer of payment for your work.
You are volunteers, providing a community service on a non-commercial
basis, period

No money should ever change hands.



You should never accept anything for your Amateur Radio operating.
The FCC prohibits operation of an amateur station "for hire, or
material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised"
[97.113(a)(2)] This includes direct payment (money, goods, food, and so
on) and indirect payment (publicity, advertising, and so on)."

What if one of the people in that parade gives you a ride home? We get


techinaly yes


thank you letters all the time, and mentioned in these groups
newsletters. Is this in violation?


not if we don't ask for them


What you are trying to do is hyper-interpret the rules. They aren't
made for what you are trying to do. They are made to keep people from
being paid for their volunteer work. This means money or goods changing
hands. It means advertising your business through your radio activities.
It doesn't mean me using my own vehicle and gas to get around the parade
in 100 degree heat, and getting a bottle of water from them.

But I can see it now.......

Dave works out of band French Amateurs, and I accepted a bottle of
water at a public service event. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

N9OGL wrote:

From the FCC Rule Book: Complete Guide to the FCC Regulations Governing
Amateur Radio; edited by Norm Bliss,WA1CCQ, Published by the ARRL

Chapter 4, Page 4-2 Direct and Indirect Payment


"You must never accept any money or other consideration for operating
your station [97.113(a)(2)]. this is consistent with one of the prime
directives of our serice:

Specifically:

(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or
indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;


Never? Who said "never"?


the ARRL said so

Then they are incorrect. Reading part 97, which shows specific
instances when compensation is allowable is right there in the rules.

well if they are incorrect there and they may be then they being very
strange in endorsing it now


cut

"Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service
to the public as a voluntary, noncommercial communication service,
particularly with respect providing emergency communication" (emphasis
added) [97.1(a)]


Of course.


If you club is providing communications support to the town of Needham
for a parade, you cannot accept their offer of payment for your work.
You are volunteers, providing a community service on a non-commercial
basis, period

No money should ever change hands.



You should never accept anything for your Amateur Radio operating.
The FCC prohibits operation of an amateur station "for hire, or
material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised"
[97.113(a)(2)] This includes direct payment (money, goods, food, and so
on) and indirect payment (publicity, advertising, and so on)."

What if one of the people in that parade gives you a ride home? We get


techinaly yes


thank you letters all the time, and mentioned in these groups
newsletters. Is this in violation?


not if we don't ask for them


What you are trying to do is hyper-interpret the rules. They aren't
made for what you are trying to do. They are made to keep people from
being paid for their volunteer work. This means money or goods changing
hands. It means advertising your business through your radio activities.
It doesn't mean me using my own vehicle and gas to get around the parade
in 100 degree heat, and getting a bottle of water from them.

I agree the rules are made for this occasion like many other rules in
DHS, FEMA, etc many rules are showing just how out of touch the planing
of the goverment is with needs of the people

I find it suspious that the ARRL is taking part in this when they have
published and pusshed the opinion that this ilegal for years

I can remeber the Former Central Divison Director (can't remeber his
name but he was from Springfield IL lecutureing some of us on the
repeater when we were discussing this subject, and then showing up at
the Ham club meeting to make sure we understood that that even that
soda is techicaly illegal

Major flip flop

But I can see it now.......

Dave works out of band French Amateurs, and I accepted a bottle of
water at a public service event. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

N9OGL wrote:

From the FCC Rule Book: Complete Guide to the FCC Regulations Governing
Amateur Radio; edited by Norm Bliss,WA1CCQ, Published by the ARRL

Chapter 4, Page 4-2 Direct and Indirect Payment


"You must never accept any money or other consideration for operating
your station [97.113(a)(2)]. this is consistent with one of the prime
directives of our serice:

Specifically:

(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or
indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;


Never? Who said "never"?


the ARRL said so

Then they are incorrect. Reading part 97, which shows specific
instances when compensation is allowable is right there in the rules.



What is compensation? How about the public service event support where
the volunteers are expected to wear a hat or t-shirt? And the sponsors
give all the volunteers that piece of clothing. Must the Hams refuse?


wearing thier unidform is more questionable but I would agree that it
certainly can be seen that way


What if the sponsors says "sorry, if you don't abide by our rules, we'll
have to do this some other way"?

Is accepting that glass of water compensation?


techinicaly yes


Better yet, during field day, I drank a lot of soda provided by some
club members. Is that compensation?


FD is a ham activity

But I was a Ham who got about 20 sodas free of charge that I wouldn't
have otherwise. Hey this years FD was around 10o degrees! 8^)


"Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service
to the public as a voluntary, noncommercial communication service,
particularly with respect providing emergency communication" (emphasis
added) [97.1(a)]


Of course.


If you club is providing communications support to the town of Needham
for a parade, you cannot accept their offer of payment for your work.
You are volunteers, providing a community service on a non-commercial
basis, period

No money should ever change hands.



You should never accept anything for your Amateur Radio operating.
The FCC prohibits operation of an amateur station "for hire, or
material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised"
[97.113(a)(2)] This includes direct payment (money, goods, food, and so
on) and indirect payment (publicity, advertising, and so on)."

What if one of the people in that parade gives you a ride home? We get


techinaly yes


thank you letters all the time, and mentioned in these groups
newsletters. Is this in violation?


not if we don't ask for them


What you are trying to do is hyper-interpret the rules. They aren't
made for what you are trying to do. They are made to keep people from
being paid for their volunteer work. This means money or goods changing
hands. It means advertising your business through your radio activities.
It doesn't mean me using my own vehicle and gas to get around the parade
in 100 degree heat, and getting a bottle of water from them.

I agree the rules are not set up for this just like FEMA and DHS and
other set of rules are not set up for this mess (katrina)

I don't agree with the rules as written but they are the rules

But I can see it now.......

Dave works out of band French Amateurs, and I accepted a bottle of
water at a public service event. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

- Mike KB3EIA -