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Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Only thing is, such low power xmitters, if designed and tuned to a "quiet" portion of the mw band allows anyone with a standard am radio to tune into and participate in ... Rip apart any old transistor radio and you have the necessary parts for the xmitter ... VLF receivers can be a tad bit expensive ... however, most am radios would easily be modified to VLF ... the patience of the elmer would be the only resource in question. Regards, JS The first thing that came into my mind when I read that is. Is there even such thing as a "quiet portion of the MW band"? The normal AM band has so many multiKW stations running on it that it is heavily polluted with RF noise. The general coverage receiver I have, has a 200 Foot long antenna hooked to it. Night or day, It is hard to find a broadcast channel that isn't giving a signal reading running from S5 to S9 even when you can't hear any traces of a broadcast signal. There is so many distant stations being heard at once that it turns into indistinguishable noise. And if you do catch a quiet channel, it only last for a few minutes, or hours until propagation changes, and the noise level comes back up to normal. Once you drop off the edge of the AM band, the average noise level drops down to almost nothing within a few Kc of the edge. After you get past a certain grade of radio and RX antenna, you will not gain any improvement because of the base noise level of the band. They would basically be reduced to fighting the TX side of things, to try and stay above the average noise level. Can you say "CB a few years ago"? The only reason the horrible noise level isn't apparent on most AM receivers sold in stores, is because they are so insensitive that they can't hear even relatively loud signals. That is why I almost consider it a waste of money to buy a standard AM/FM radio that is currently on the market to listen to AM. I have built crystal radios that are more sensitive on AM than some of the high dollar AM/FM radios I have used. A lot of AM/FM radios I see any more, don't even have an IF section, with IF transformers. If you are lucky, they have a 455kc crystal filter, in a section that can barely be called a IF section. You are taking a big handicap when you stay on the AM band, and use a standard off the shelf AM radio. You have to use a radio that is designed for SW use, where the average noise levels are a lot lower, better selectivity, and the radio has a higher total gain from antenna to speaker. If I was designing a simple software IF radio for them to use with their computer, Or a basic SSB voice rig, here is the basic layout i would use. The IF for receive and TX would be 455Kc using off the shelf AM IF cans. TX side. 450Kc or 460Kc crystal feeding a balanced modulator. Soundcard driving the other input of the balanced modulator. Feed the output of the modulator through an amplifier to an off the shelf 455Kc center frequency, 10Kc bandwidth, crystal filter used in the IF of standard AM receivers. Feed that into a mixer being driven by a 630kc local oscillator. That will yield a 170Kc to 180kc coverage signal that you can feed into a band pass filter. Feed the band pass filter into the final amp. Feed the final amp into the antenna coupler/ second band pass filter, and then to the antenna. That will allow you to use about 1/3 of the entire lowfer band without changing any frequency in the transmitter. Just set up the receiver with the exact opposite of the TX. And you can use the TX crystal oscillators to feed the receiver, so the RX frequency will be a mirror of the TX one. The antenna coming in to a band pass filter. One stage of RF amp if desired. Feed that into the RX mixer. The mixer uses the same 630Kc local oscillator as the TX section. Run the output of the mixer into an IF strip, with an identical 455Kc crystal filter. Run it to a final detector being feed by the 450/460Kc crystal. Feed the output of a detector into an audio amp, then to the input of the sound card. Put a little AGC in here and there, and you are ready to go. With that setup, they could have several conversations going at once on different digital modes, without bothering each other. For an AM transmitter I would just use a crystal oscillator driving a modulated final amp. And for the receive end, I would just use a modified AM receiver with a GOOD IF!!!. There is even a few general coverage radios that already has 160 to 190Kc coverage that would work fine for a receiver.. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
N9WOS wrote:
Only thing is, such low power xmitters, if designed and tuned to a "quiet" portion of the mw band allows anyone with a standard am radio to tune into and participate in ... Rip apart any old transistor radio and you have the necessary parts for the xmitter ... VLF receivers can be a tad bit expensive ... however, most am radios would easily be modified to VLF ... the patience of the elmer would be the only resource in question. Regards, JS The first thing that came into my mind when I read that is. Is there even such thing as a "quiet portion of the MW band"? The normal AM band has so many multiKW stations running on it that it is heavily polluted with RF noise. The general coverage receiver I have, has a 200 Foot long antenna hooked to it. Night or day, It is hard to find a broadcast channel that isn't giving a signal reading running from S5 to S9 even when you can't hear any traces of a broadcast signal. There is so many distant stations being heard at once that it turns into indistinguishable noise. And if you do catch a quiet channel, it only last for a few minutes, or hours until propagation changes, and the noise level comes back up to normal. Once you drop off the edge of the AM band, the average noise level drops down to almost nothing within a few Kc of the edge. After you get past a certain grade of radio and RX antenna, you will not gain any improvement because of the base noise level of the band. They would basically be reduced to fighting the TX side of things, to try and stay above the average noise level. Can you say "CB a few years ago"? The only reason the horrible noise level isn't apparent on most AM receivers sold in stores, is because they are so insensitive that they can't hear even relatively loud signals. That is why I almost consider it a waste of money to buy a standard AM/FM radio that is currently on the market to listen to AM. I have built crystal radios that are more sensitive on AM than some of the high dollar AM/FM radios I have used. A lot of AM/FM radios I see any more, don't even have an IF section, with IF transformers. If you are lucky, they have a 455kc crystal filter, in a section that can barely be called a IF section. You are taking a big handicap when you stay on the AM band, and use a standard off the shelf AM radio. You have to use a radio that is designed for SW use, where the average noise levels are a lot lower, better selectivity, and the radio has a higher total gain from antenna to speaker. If I was designing a simple software IF radio for them to use with their computer, Or a basic SSB voice rig, here is the basic layout i would use. The IF for receive and TX would be 455Kc using off the shelf AM IF cans. TX side. 450Kc or 460Kc crystal feeding a balanced modulator. Soundcard driving the other input of the balanced modulator. Feed the output of the modulator through an amplifier to an off the shelf 455Kc center frequency, 10Kc bandwidth, crystal filter used in the IF of standard AM receivers. Feed that into a mixer being driven by a 630kc local oscillator. That will yield a 170Kc to 180kc coverage signal that you can feed into a band pass filter. Feed the band pass filter into the final amp. Feed the final amp into the antenna coupler/ second band pass filter, and then to the antenna. That will allow you to use about 1/3 of the entire lowfer band without changing any frequency in the transmitter. Just set up the receiver with the exact opposite of the TX. And you can use the TX crystal oscillators to feed the receiver, so the RX frequency will be a mirror of the TX one. The antenna coming in to a band pass filter. One stage of RF amp if desired. Feed that into the RX mixer. The mixer uses the same 630Kc local oscillator as the TX section. Run the output of the mixer into an IF strip, with an identical 455Kc crystal filter. Run it to a final detector being feed by the 450/460Kc crystal. Feed the output of a detector into an audio amp, then to the input of the sound card. Put a little AGC in here and there, and you are ready to go. With that setup, they could have several conversations going at once on different digital modes, without bothering each other. For an AM transmitter I would just use a crystal oscillator driving a modulated final amp. And for the receive end, I would just use a modified AM receiver with a GOOD IF!!!. There is even a few general coverage radios that already has 160 to 190Kc coverage that would work fine for a receiver.. You have presented the above well, I am in agreement ... The world is always a compromise between what one wants and what is actually to be had. Too bad there are none of the dollar-ninety-eight kits out there--like there was when I as a boy. (or tons of old military equipment to be had for a song) Warmest regards, JS |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
"N9WOS" ) writes:
The first thing that came into my mind when I read that is. Is there even such thing as a "quiet portion of the MW band"? The normal AM band has so many multiKW stations running on it that it is heavily polluted with RF noise. The solution is actually simpler. Since realistically the kids don't need to communicate before they actually can, they need to receiver code practice. There is, again, ample chance to convey the hobby to them before they pursue licenses, and once they have licenses pretty much "anything goes" because of the very nature of amateur radio. The solution is to get the community involved. These are their kids, they want them to do well in the world. Presumably there is a radio station on the reserve specifically for the reservation. So get some space there to send code (obviously a code practice oscillator into the microphone input) for a bit. It could even be as simple as a few sentences every day at a fixed time, the same way Jean Sheppard wrote of getting secret messages during the "Little Orphan Annie" show. The reservation near here has bingo games on the air every Sunday night, so why shouldn't a community that is interested in the success of their young not see the point of sending some morse code over the local station? The point isn't to give them amateur radio before the fact, it's to lure them in. And if there's no community radio station on that reserve, then I suspect that's of more value than low power stations that may turn out to be a dud. Because a community station can do so much for the community. And one might as well get those interested students involved in the project. A few years back, at that nearby reserve that has radio bingo, one 13 year old lamented that there was no library on the reserved. They have a library now, it carries her name. This is something that is going to last forever (or hopefully so), and is the sort of thing reserves need. Libraries are places where people can find those books about radio and electronics when they suddenly become interested, or lure them in when they stumble on such things. Getting the kids interested in science and even specifically electronics is a good thing. Done well, it will even benefit them if they don't pursue such things later, because the teaching becomes a catalyst for other things. But sometimes one has to look at projects and wonder if they will really make change, or if they are just neat in themselves but will actually bomb (because the kids lose interest, or because all kinds of money and resource is put it into something when there are simpler things to do the same thing). Michael VE2BVW |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Its a good idea, might even make a fine commercial venture. My only
problem with 160 to 190 khz is that its a public band, not an amateur band. My reason for operating 80M under part 15 is that as a code practice group they can get used to courtesy and usage as well as operation, and anyone who happens to listen will simply hear just another group of brass pounders. Immediately after getting the license they can keep the same rigs but then start an amplifier project. Another question would be temporary callsigns. I was thinking that each kid would have the call 15XX, where XX is the first and last initial. On Jan 27, 3:20 pm, "N9WOS" wrote: Only thing is, such low power xmitters, if designed and tuned to a "quiet" portion of the mw band allows anyone with a standard am radio to tune into and participate in ... Rip apart any old transistor radio and you have the necessary parts for the xmitter ... VLF receivers can be a tad bit expensive ... however, most am radios would easily be modified to VLF ... the patience of the elmer would be the only resource in question. Regards, JSThe first thing that came into my mind when I read that is. Is there even such thing as a "quiet portion of the MW band"? The normal AM band has so many multiKW stations running on it that it is heavily polluted with RF noise. The general coverage receiver I have, has a 200 Foot long antenna hooked to it. Night or day, It is hard to find a broadcast channel that isn't giving a signal reading running from S5 to S9 even when you can't hear any traces of a broadcast signal. There is so many distant stations being heard at once that it turns into indistinguishable noise. And if you do catch a quiet channel, it only last for a few minutes, or hours until propagation changes, and the noise level comes back up to normal. Once you drop off the edge of the AM band, the average noise level drops down to almost nothing within a few Kc of the edge. After you get past a certain grade of radio and RX antenna, you will not gain any improvement because of the base noise level of the band. They would basically be reduced to fighting the TX side of things, to try and stay above the average noise level. Can you say "CB a few years ago"? The only reason the horrible noise level isn't apparent on most AM receivers sold in stores, is because they are so insensitive that they can't hear even relatively loud signals. That is why I almost consider it a waste of money to buy a standard AM/FM radio that is currently on the market to listen to AM. I have built crystal radios that are more sensitive on AM than some of the high dollar AM/FM radios I have used. A lot of AM/FM radios I see any more, don't even have an IF section, with IF transformers. If you are lucky, they have a 455kc crystal filter, in a section that can barely be called a IF section. You are taking a big handicap when you stay on the AM band, and use a standard off the shelf AM radio. You have to use a radio that is designed for SW use, where the average noise levels are a lot lower, better selectivity, and the radio has a higher total gain from antenna to speaker. If I was designing a simple software IF radio for them to use with their computer, Or a basic SSB voice rig, here is the basic layout i would use. The IF for receive and TX would be 455Kc using off the shelf AM IF cans. TX side. 450Kc or 460Kc crystal feeding a balanced modulator. Soundcard driving the other input of the balanced modulator. Feed the output of the modulator through an amplifier to an off the shelf 455Kc center frequency, 10Kc bandwidth, crystal filter used in the IF of standard AM receivers. Feed that into a mixer being driven by a 630kc local oscillator. That will yield a 170Kc to 180kc coverage signal that you can feed into a band pass filter. Feed the band pass filter into the final amp. Feed the final amp into the antenna coupler/ second band pass filter, and then to the antenna. That will allow you to use about 1/3 of the entire lowfer band without changing any frequency in the transmitter. Just set up the receiver with the exact opposite of the TX. And you can use the TX crystal oscillators to feed the receiver, so the RX frequency will be a mirror of the TX one. The antenna coming in to a band pass filter. One stage of RF amp if desired. Feed that into the RX mixer. The mixer uses the same 630Kc local oscillator as the TX section. Run the output of the mixer into an IF strip, with an identical 455Kc crystal filter. Run it to a final detector being feed by the 450/460Kc crystal. Feed the output of a detector into an audio amp, then to the input of the sound card. Put a little AGC in here and there, and you are ready to go. With that setup, they could have several conversations going at once on different digital modes, without bothering each other. For an AM transmitter I would just use a crystal oscillator driving a modulated final amp. And for the receive end, I would just use a modified AM receiver with a GOOD IF!!!. There is even a few general coverage radios that already has 160 to 190Kc coverage that would work fine for a receiver.. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Its a good idea, might even make a fine commercial venture. My only problem with 160 to 190 khz is that its a public band, not an amateur band. My reason for operating 80M under part 15 is that as a code practice group they can get used to courtesy and usage as well as operation, and anyone who happens to listen will simply hear just another group of brass pounders. Immediately after getting the license they can keep the same rigs but then start an amplifier project. Another question would be temporary callsigns. I was thinking that each kid would have the call 15XX, where XX is the first and last initial. Ww wow wow wow.... put the brakes on here a second. There is a little flaw with that logic. People do listen around the band, and type up the callsigns on websites/books/CD ROMs, and a lot of logging programs have callsign lookup, or at least rough location determination based on call layout. There is never "just another group of brass pounders" There is plenty of people that operate at levels of a watt or less, with the full knowledge that when they pound out a CQ a couple times, that someone, or sometime a bunch of people, will be looking through the band, hear them, and respond, so they can make a contact. Local CW ops, and even some at quite a distance will quickly determine that there has been a flood of "very strange, illegal, but slightly weak people that don't do code very well" cluttering up a specific frequency, or cluster of frequencies. Of course, the operator/s will subsequently have kittens, and all attempts to make ham radio operators look like a bunch of angles will go down the drain. Of course the operator/s will try to get the group of "freebanders" to leave. If they don't listen, then the operator will do his solemn duty and he will get reinforcements, and the frequency will sound like world war 25 has just broken loose, pronto. Them using random, made up callsigns will speed up the process, because there is plenty of people that cruse the bands, looking for rare DX. How do you think pileups happen? When they find a weak station using a rare callsign, it will hit the DX clusters, and all hell will break loose. Heck, one of the groups that I always listen to on 160 had a little fun one time. One of them made a joke by saying that he was (something thousand miles) south east of anchorage Alaska. (ie) In Iowa. And all of a sudden, there were tons of people on the frequency asking where the Alaskan station was. And carnage issued. Some casual passer by had heard the Alaska reference and forwarded it to the DX clusters. I can see so many ways that that setup could lead to total carnage in so many ways. You will have some poor child asking his parents why someone would want them to stick such and such in up their tail end. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Jim Higgins wrote:
... Seriously, not trying to be snide. I simply see nothing important on the topic of FCC authority on Indian Reservations in that document. Not to say it won't become an important issue some day, but I don't see the seeds there. What you see is the FCC side-step the question. I do not believe they wish to take on the Indian nation. Indeed, I have heard of little success in any gov't agency in doing so. Those treaties signed many moons ago by our forefathers still stand (Navajo, especially, have refused every attempt at revision), and they are very, very broad ... like gambling was probably accepted in all the territories back then. Like radio was NOT invented back then ... do you even know how large that reservation in question is? Try the size of West Virginia. Know how large that tribe is? Try the largest in the USA. Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the best attorneys in the world. If you doubt that, take on the Indians. California did, and lost ... Regards, JS |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Would a call sign like PART15XX make it a lot clearer and a lot more
obvious? I wonder what the FCC would suggest for micropower CW callsigns. On Jan 28, 5:40 pm, "N9WOS" wrote: Its a good idea, might even make a fine commercial venture. My only problem with 160 to 190 khz is that its a public band, not an amateur band. My reason for operating 80M under part 15 is that as a code practice group they can get used to courtesy and usage as well as operation, and anyone who happens to listen will simply hear just another group of brass pounders. Immediately after getting the license they can keep the same rigs but then start an amplifier project. Another question would be temporary callsigns. I was thinking that each kid would have the call 15XX, where XX is the first and last initial.Ww wow wow wow.... put the brakes on here a second. There is a little flaw with that logic. People do listen around the band, and type up the callsigns on websites/books/CD ROMs, and a lot of logging programs have callsign lookup, or at least rough location determination based on call layout. There is never "just another group of brass pounders" There is plenty of people that operate at levels of a watt or less, with the full knowledge that when they pound out a CQ a couple times, that someone, or sometime a bunch of people, will be looking through the band, hear them, and respond, so they can make a contact. Local CW ops, and even some at quite a distance will quickly determine that there has been a flood of "very strange, illegal, but slightly weak people that don't do code very well" cluttering up a specific frequency, or cluster of frequencies. Of course, the operator/s will subsequently have kittens, and all attempts to make ham radio operators look like a bunch of angles will go down the drain. Of course the operator/s will try to get the group of "freebanders" to leave. If they don't listen, then the operator will do his solemn duty and he will get reinforcements, and the frequency will sound like world war 25 has just broken loose, pronto. Them using random, made up callsigns will speed up the process, because there is plenty of people that cruse the bands, looking for rare DX. How do you think pileups happen? When they find a weak station using a rare callsign, it will hit the DX clusters, and all hell will break loose. Heck, one of the groups that I always listen to on 160 had a little fun one time. One of them made a joke by saying that he was (something thousand miles) south east of anchorage Alaska. (ie) In Iowa. And all of a sudden, there were tons of people on the frequency asking where the Alaskan station was. And carnage issued. Some casual passer by had heard the Alaska reference and forwarded it to the DX clusters. I can see so many ways that that setup could lead to total carnage in so many ways. You will have some poor child asking his parents why someone would want them to stick such and such in up their tail end. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
And I suspect I would make the problem worse if I let the kids
telegraph in their own language. On Jan 28, 5:40 pm, "N9WOS" wrote: Its a good idea, might even make a fine commercial venture. My only problem with 160 to 190 khz is that its a public band, not an amateur band. My reason for operating 80M under part 15 is that as a code practice group they can get used to courtesy and usage as well as operation, and anyone who happens to listen will simply hear just another group of brass pounders. Immediately after getting the license they can keep the same rigs but then start an amplifier project. Another question would be temporary callsigns. I was thinking that each kid would have the call 15XX, where XX is the first and last initial.Ww wow wow wow.... put the brakes on here a second. There is a little flaw with that logic. People do listen around the band, and type up the callsigns on websites/books/CD ROMs, and a lot of logging programs have callsign lookup, or at least rough location determination based on call layout. There is never "just another group of brass pounders" There is plenty of people that operate at levels of a watt or less, with the full knowledge that when they pound out a CQ a couple times, that someone, or sometime a bunch of people, will be looking through the band, hear them, and respond, so they can make a contact. Local CW ops, and even some at quite a distance will quickly determine that there has been a flood of "very strange, illegal, but slightly weak people that don't do code very well" cluttering up a specific frequency, or cluster of frequencies. Of course, the operator/s will subsequently have kittens, and all attempts to make ham radio operators look like a bunch of angles will go down the drain. Of course the operator/s will try to get the group of "freebanders" to leave. If they don't listen, then the operator will do his solemn duty and he will get reinforcements, and the frequency will sound like world war 25 has just broken loose, pronto. Them using random, made up callsigns will speed up the process, because there is plenty of people that cruse the bands, looking for rare DX. How do you think pileups happen? When they find a weak station using a rare callsign, it will hit the DX clusters, and all hell will break loose. Heck, one of the groups that I always listen to on 160 had a little fun one time. One of them made a joke by saying that he was (something thousand miles) south east of anchorage Alaska. (ie) In Iowa. And all of a sudden, there were tons of people on the frequency asking where the Alaskan station was. And carnage issued. Some casual passer by had heard the Alaska reference and forwarded it to the DX clusters. I can see so many ways that that setup could lead to total carnage in so many ways. You will have some poor child asking his parents why someone would want them to stick such and such in up their tail end. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
wrote in message ups.com... And I suspect I would make the problem worse if I let the kids telegraph in their own language. (Cough cough)....... yap!!!!!!! I couldn't really think of a way to avoid a cataclysm that is why I ditched the idea of using the ham band, and especially the color burst frequency, without second thought. The 3.579545Mc (Got a color burst crystal in my hand right now.) frequency is popular because the crystal is so readily available. So it's used in a lot of homebrew equipment. The crystal may be pulled up or down a bit in frequency, but within a few KC of that frequency. You would basically be dropping them into a hornets nest of activity. Any other alternative would be highly suggestible, even running relatively high power on the AM broadcast band would have less of a chance of stirring up trouble. Another idea. Going with off the shelf CB's would also be an idea. You could use a code practice oscillator held close to the mike, or even wired into the mike circuit, to send code practice. You could even implement digital transmission systems via a computer, program, and sound card (RTTY, PSK31, MFSK) if you wired the soundcard output into the mike. It would work perfectly fine on Stock AM. Only one person could use the frequency at a time. It wouldn't exactly match the designed method of operation, but it would work. It would get them familiarized with the modes of operation. If you spent the money on SSB CB's then you could fully implement the intended method of operation for soundcard/computer based programs. And it would allow multiple people to carry on a PSK31/RTTY/BPSK/MFSK..... conversation on the same channel without bothering each other. Basically the same as you would have on the Lowfer band. And you wouldn't really have to build a thing except for a few audio interface cables. Just get a bunch of SSB radios, the cheapest ones you can get. Wire up a bunch of interface cables to hook the mike, and speaker connections to the sound card, and you are done. You could also set up a packet network with CB's. Other people have done it. You could even implement the newest DRM transmission systems that are hitting the ham band if you had SSB CB's. And the CB band is relatively dead right now, so you have plenty of open channels to work with. And you can use off the shelf antennas, that are a lot smaller. It would also open up the realm of mobile operation. There is plenty of options, besides putting them in a situation that is just asking for trouble. .................................................. ........................... .................. A little note to add to that, in case someone thinks that no one will hear a station at a distance that is running real low of power. A few weeks ago, I was playing with an oscillator design. I had just used a random inductor that i had laying around for the LC network. The frequency that it landed on was totally at random. That happened to be around 8.199Mc All that i had hooked to the proto board was the power supply, and the frequency counter, (and sometimes the O scope). The oscillator was developing about a 8V P to P signal across the 1Kohm loading resistor on the proto board. I wanted to have an audio representation of the oscillator drift, so I went to my normal HF receiver and tuned it in on the SSB setting so i could hear the drift in real time. The oscillator was being pulled by the frequency counter a bit. When the gate of the counter would open, the oscillator would shift down a hundred cycles or so. The audio signal I was hearing was along the lines of ... drrrrrrrrrrrr duuuuuuuuuuuuu drrrrrrrrrrrrr duuuuuuuuuu........... I had a reason to turn it off for a minute, and then when i turned it back on, i heard a Burlblbublbublbub ..... for a few seconds, then it went away, for a few seconds, then it went Burlblbublbublbub ..... again, and then went away........ I thought that it was totally by coincidence. There was no way anyone could be hearing it. So, to settle my mind, that I wasn't going crazy, I shut off the oscillator again, for a few minutes. I never heard the unknown signal in that time. But when I turned the oscillator back on..... About two seconds after i turned it on.......... Burlblbublbublbub........ then a few seconds later...... Burlblbublbublbub.... After subsequent test cycles I had pretty much figured out that it was some kind of frequency hopping signal that I was hearing. The signal from my oscillator must of correlated closely with the type of contact initiation signal that the outside station was looking for. When it heard that warbling tone, it would try to interrogate the calling station (my oscillator) to set up a two way contact. It would try two times, then give up until the signal disappeared for a certain amount of time. When the signal would come back, then it would try to set up a two way contact again I looked up what band the 8.199Mc signal fell in, and my old reference book said it was a maritime mobile band. The data in the book may be out of date, but if it isn't, then the receiving station may have been a long ways away. Probably some automated ship to shore station along the great lakes. The propagation was just right for my signal to hit their receiver. Stuff like that is why direct antenna coupled regenerative receivers that are operated in the oscillation region for CW/SSB detection are frowned upon. If they are hooked to a good antenna, then your "receiver" can be heard quite a distance away. That is why most regenerative kits sold today, have an RF amp stage on the input, to stop the regenerative section from back feeding the antenna. I have even heard of a few people using a regenerative receiver as a transceiver by keying the tube with the regeneration control turned way up. They only made contact to people on the other side of the island, but it worked. Now try to beat that, a one tube or transistor transceiver! |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in
Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran electricity to the bathroom. So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a reservation. {;-) Jim "John Smith I" wrote in message ... Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the best attorneys in the world. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are
more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent being made fun of like that. To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods, technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism. The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do. You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a new technology in a culturally appropriate manner. The Eternal Squire On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote: That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran electricity to the bathroom. So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a reservation. {;-) Jim "John Smith I" wrote in ... Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the best attorneys in the world. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
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Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
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Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
The why not say it here?
The Eternal Squire On Jan 29, 6:06 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: Squire--- I tried to email you....it bounced back. Pete AC7ZL wrote: The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent being made fun of like that. To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods, technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism. The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do. You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a new technology in a culturally appropriate manner. The Eternal Squire On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote: That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran electricity to the bathroom. So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a reservation. {;-) Jim "John Smith I" wrote in ... Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the best attorneys in the world. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Speak for yourself. My grandmother was of the Crow Nation and it has been
my observation that most evolved peoples have a sense of humor. You might consider getting your panties out of a wad and lightening up a bit. I ain't any happier than you that my ancestors gave the First Nation the smelly end of the stick, but we both know that time moves forwards, not backwards. It is what we do OURSELVES that we are accountable for, not the sins of our forebears. I had teachers like you growing up ... sheesh. Jim Even such whites are ourselves who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Very well.
Andrew, A few thoughts about your idea and some of the responses that it has evoked: First off, I don't think your emphasis should be on transmitting. To me, ham radio is about communication, and communication, first and foremost, is about LISTENING. Listening is what you should emphasize. Since there are both physical laws of nature and interference (natural and man-made) to contend with, the real magic in radio is the antenna, amplifier(s), filter(s), and operator techniques used to extract useful information from a feeble signal. (Case in point: Voyager 1 is now more than 9 BILLION miles from earth, but as long as its flea-power transmitter holds out, we expect to be able to continue receiving data.) There is great fun in building simple receivers, and much to be learned. A few years back, for lack of something better to do one evening, I knocked together a regenerative set on the bench top in the garage. I wound a coil on a toilet paper tube, made a grid-leak capacitor out of a couple of microscope slides and some foil, and hooked up an old #26 tetrode. The rig was "wired" with alligator leads and powered by flashlight batteries. The antenna was 15 feet of wire thumb tacked to the garage ceiling, and the ground was a 'gator clip attached to the cover plate screw of a nearby outlet. A few adjustments later and I found myself listening to a radio-theater presentation of "Dracula" put on by the BBC in London. That's more than 5000 miles from where I live. That's magic. In your case, a FET based regenerative set would be the ticket. Dirt cheap and effective enough to be useful. (I'm thinking something along the lines of 1 FET RF/isolation, 1 FET regen stage, and an LM386 amp chip, which will easily drive common walkman-style headphones.) If you want to teach your kids Morse, use the Code Quick method. Buy a copy of a program called Numorse for yourself, and use this to generate exercises for the kids. You can put the audio on cassette tape or CD's. When they get up to 5 WPM or so, you have them listen to W1AW. The day after a W1AW session you ask the kids some specific question about the text that was sent the previous night. Offer prizes or some kind of encouragement for positive responses. Once they can receive Morse, learning to send is rather easy. This is something of a detour, but have you ever heard recordings of sounds the Ionosphere makes? Remarkable chirps, whistles, clicks, and pops. Slow down the recordings and you get sounds that are startlingly similar to the songs of certain birds, or the calls of whales. The equipment to capture this is cheap and easy to build. This is one situation where a remote location is a real asset, because there is far less man-made electrical noise to foul your recordings. Get a kid hooked on something like this, and who knows what kind of scientific or technical career could develop from this experience. If you insist on transmitting, or equipping your students to transmit before they even have the skills to do so properly, fine, so long as you are certain that your activities are within the boundaries of the law. With regard to the comments of some in this thread I will simply say that the last thing society needs is a "mentor" whose first lesson will essentially be: "If you don't like the rules just ignore them." I am of the opinion that the preponderance of this attitude is responsible for much of the unhappiness in this world. Final thought. I few years back I authored a book on the subject of primitive radio, and how to build radio components from scratch. This includes homemade variable capacitors, tuning coils, detectors, and even headphones. The equipment is built with hand tools and made from such mundane source material as wood, tin cans, cabinet magnets, and cigarette lighter parts. Web link: http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/bks-votc.htm This book has been critically acclaimed by the editors of QST and Practical Wireless in the U.K., and is recommended by at least one teacher's guide: http://www.libraryvideo.com/guides/N...E5J92CHF5S8T4A I am sensitive to educational and charitable concerns. If you should express serious interest in using these in a classroom setting, we could discuss how to make this happen. 73 H P "Pete" Friedrichs AC7ZL wrote: The why not say it here? The Eternal Squire On Jan 29, 6:06 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: Squire--- I tried to email you....it bounced back. Pete AC7ZL wrote: The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent being made fun of like that. To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods, technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism. The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do. You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a new technology in a culturally appropriate manner. The Eternal Squire On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote: That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran electricity to the bathroom. So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a reservation. {;-) Jim "John Smith I" wrote in ... Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the best attorneys in the world. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
"H. P. Friedrichs" ) writes:
This is something of a detour, but have you ever heard recordings of sounds the Ionosphere makes? Remarkable chirps, whistles, clicks, and pops. Slow down the recordings and you get sounds that are startlingly similar to the songs of certain birds, or the calls of whales. The equipment to capture this is cheap and easy to build. This is one situation where a remote location is a real asset, because there is far less man-made electrical noise to foul your recordings. Get a kid hooked on something like this, and who knows what kind of scientific or technical career could develop from this experience. I sort of said something along the same lines, though maybe it's not apparent. The idea of something more open-ended seems more important than a funneling into something specific. I don't think anyone could see anything wrong with getting the kids interested and even excited about science and technology. But how you get them there can be a mystery. Somethingt sparks an interest in one child, and not in another. The goal can't be about the kids getting a ham license, it has to be the benefits they might get from being involved in the hobby. And there are all kinds of things that might provide similar benefits, and might suit the kids more than spending time preparing them for a ham license. The effort might be better spent on getting them interested in something that fits them, and letting that be a vector for learning. Too often, adults forget what it's like to be young, and they use adult notions in trying to interpret the young. So often there is the "kids today aren't interested in science" yet if they aren't given the chance they never will be. And of course, science was never something belonging to all. Building that regen receiver and getting it working should be as much of a challenge and thrill as it was back when I was young, because it's not about having the receiver (which won't compare with something store bought) but that you built it yourself. I threw together a stepping motor, diode, "super-cap" and LED to make a crank flashlight a couple of months ago. I'm still trying to remember where I put the other supercaps I took out of VCRs, because there wasn't enough capacity. But I was making it to show the daughter of a friend, who is about the right age to appreciate that such things are in the realm of making yourself. It doesn't matter that you can buy such things pretty cheaply now, it matters that it conveys that such things don't just grow on trees. If we aren't doing this sort of thing, conveying that we are intrigued by such things and showing off how it's not a black box beyond our control but something we can put together from scrap parts, then there's no chance that the young will become interested in science and technology. Michael VE2BVW |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
HP,
The whole point of my original post was to see if forming a micropower net on 80M COULD be done within the rules. I would indeed be a poor mentor for encouraging students to break the rules... and I never advocated such. Please speed-read what I post a little slower next time :) Today I make my first presentation, and I have a pretty bad cold. I don't have any Mr. Wizard exhibits put togther, just the equivalent of a slide show plus a few parts, because I only have a week's notice. I am changing tack and taking my radio with me to the classroom, if the students are really interested I will lend the classroom my rig until a replacement can be build or bought, and be with them for a couple hours per week as control operator. The science teacher has promised it could be connected outside to a wire antenna of some type if at all possible. So wish me luck, and please use my handle on Usenet rather than my name from now on. I'd rather not be made by some determined lunatic intent on causing me or my family any harm. On Jan 30, 8:46 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: Very well. Andrew, A few thoughts about your idea and some of the responses that it has evoked: First off, I don't think your emphasis should be on transmitting. To me, ham radio is about communication, and communication, first and foremost, is about LISTENING. Listening is what you should emphasize. Since there are both physical laws of nature and interference (natural and man-made) to contend with, the real magic in radio is the antenna, amplifier(s), filter(s), and operator techniques used to extract useful information from a feeble signal. (Case in point: Voyager 1 is now more than 9 BILLION miles from earth, but as long as its flea-power transmitter holds out, we expect to be able to continue receiving data.) There is great fun in building simple receivers, and much to be learned. A few years back, for lack of something better to do one evening, I knocked together a regenerative set on the bench top in the garage. I wound a coil on a toilet paper tube, made a grid-leak capacitor out of a couple of microscope slides and some foil, and hooked up an old #26 tetrode. The rig was "wired" with alligator leads and powered by flashlight batteries. The antenna was 15 feet of wire thumb tacked to the garage ceiling, and the ground was a 'gator clip attached to the cover plate screw of a nearby outlet. A few adjustments later and I found myself listening to a radio-theater presentation of "Dracula" put on by the BBC in London. That's more than 5000 miles from where I live. That's magic. In your case, a FET based regenerative set would be the ticket. Dirt cheap and effective enough to be useful. (I'm thinking something along the lines of 1 FET RF/isolation, 1 FET regen stage, and an LM386 amp chip, which will easily drive common walkman-style headphones.) If you want to teach your kids Morse, use the Code Quick method. Buy a copy of a program called Numorse for yourself, and use this to generate exercises for the kids. You can put the audio on cassette tape or CD's. When they get up to 5 WPM or so, you have them listen to W1AW. The day after a W1AW session you ask the kids some specific question about the text that was sent the previous night. Offer prizes or some kind of encouragement for positive responses. Once they can receive Morse, learning to send is rather easy. This is something of a detour, but have you ever heard recordings of sounds the Ionosphere makes? Remarkable chirps, whistles, clicks, and pops. Slow down the recordings and you get sounds that are startlingly similar to the songs of certain birds, or the calls of whales. The equipment to capture this is cheap and easy to build. This is one situation where a remote location is a real asset, because there is far less man-made electrical noise to foul your recordings. Get a kid hooked on something like this, and who knows what kind of scientific or technical career could develop from this experience. If you insist on transmitting, or equipping your students to transmit before they even have the skills to do so properly, fine, so long as you are certain that your activities are within the boundaries of the law. With regard to the comments of some in this thread I will simply say that the last thing society needs is a "mentor" whose first lesson will essentially be: "If you don't like the rules just ignore them." I am of the opinion that the preponderance of this attitude is responsible for much of the unhappiness in this world. Final thought. I few years back I authored a book on the subject of primitive radio, and how to build radio components from scratch. This includes homemade variable capacitors, tuning coils, detectors, and even headphones. The equipment is built with hand tools and made from such mundane source material as wood, tin cans, cabinet magnets, and cigarette lighter parts. Web link: http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/bks-votc.htm This book has been critically acclaimed by the editors of QST and Practical Wireless in the U.K., and is recommended by at least one teacher's guide:http://www.libraryvideo.com/guides/N...EATDCXALG28J0F... I am sensitive to educational and charitable concerns. If you should express serious interest in using these in a classroom setting, we could discuss how to make this happen. 73 H P "Pete" Friedrichs AC7ZL wrote: The why not say it here? The Eternal Squire On Jan 29, 6:06 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: Squire--- I tried to email you....it bounced back. Pete AC7ZL wrote: The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent being made fun of like that. To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods, technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism. The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do. You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a new technology in a culturally appropriate manner. The Eternal Squire On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote: That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran electricity to the bathroom. So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a reservation. {;-) Jim "John Smith I" wrote in ... Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the best attorneys in the world. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
On Jan 30, 9:10 pm, (Michael Black) wrote:
"H. P. Friedrichs" ) writes: This is something of a detour, but have you ever heard recordings of sounds the Ionosphere makes? Remarkable chirps, whistles, clicks, and pops. Slow down the recordings and you get sounds that are startlingly similar to the songs of certain birds, or the calls of whales. The equipment to capture this is cheap and easy to build. This is one situation where a remote location is a real asset, because there is far less man-made electrical noise to foul your recordings. Get a kid hooked on something like this, and who knows what kind of scientific or technical career could develop from this experience. I sort of said something along the same lines, though maybe it's not apparent. The idea of something more open-ended seems more important than a funneling into something specific. I don't think anyone could see anything wrong with getting the kids interested and even excited about science and technology. But how you get them there can be a mystery. Somethingt sparks an interest in one child, and not in another. The goal can't be about the kids getting a ham license, it has to be the benefits they might get from being involved in the hobby. And there are all kinds of things that might provide similar benefits, and might suit the kids more than spending time preparing them for a ham license. The effort might be better spent on getting them interested in something that fits them, and letting that be a vector for learning. Too often, adults forget what it's like to be young, and they use adult notions in trying to interpret the young. So often there is the "kids today aren't interested in science" yet if they aren't given the chance they never will be. And of course, science was never something belonging to all. Building that regen receiver and getting it working should be as much of a challenge and thrill as it was back when I was young, because it's not about having the receiver (which won't compare with something store bought) but that you built it yourself. I threw together a stepping motor, diode, "super-cap" and LED to make a crank flashlight a couple of months ago. I'm still trying to remember where I put the other supercaps I took out of VCRs, because there wasn't enough capacity. But I was making it to show the daughter of a friend, who is about the right age to appreciate that such things are in the realm of making yourself. It doesn't matter that you can buy such things pretty cheaply now, it matters that it conveys that such things don't just grow on trees. If we aren't doing this sort of thing, conveying that we are intrigued by such things and showing off how it's not a black box beyond our control but something we can put together from scrap parts, then there's no chance that the young will become interested in science and technology. Michael VE2BVW Well, I did try to build a regenerative receiver to demonstrate to the class, but I couldn't get regeneration. Shall I mail it to you to see if you can debug it? Thanks, The Eternal Squire |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Point taken, and I beg your pardon. However, I still try to err on
the side of caution than the other way. The Eternal Squire On Jan 30, 3:42 pm, "RST Engineering" wrote: Speak for yourself. My grandmother was of the Crow Nation and it has been my observation that most evolved peoples have a sense of humor. You might consider getting your panties out of a wad and lightening up a bit. I ain't any happier than you that my ancestors gave the First Nation the smelly end of the stick, but we both know that time moves forwards, not backwards. It is what we do OURSELVES that we are accountable for, not the sins of our forebears. I had teachers like you growing up ... sheesh. Jim Even such whites are ourselves who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
Looks like I have a reprieve. Today is considered a half day for
student due to snow, so my presentation got cancelled. Which is a good thing too, cause I'm quite unprepared for it. Being the only Extra, let alone ham, in the area is a very overwhelming feeling. This whole thing needs to be rethought anyway. If anyone has bits and pieces of working homebrew I can borrow, say yes here and I will contact you privately. My own homebrew is just not working today worth a darn. The Eternal Squire On Jan 31, 10:20 am, wrote: HP, The whole point of my original post was to see if forming a micropower net on 80M COULD be done within the rules. I would indeed be a poor mentor for encouraging students to break the rules... and I never advocated such. Please speed-read what I post a little slower next time :) Today I make my first presentation, and I have a pretty bad cold. I don't have any Mr. Wizard exhibits put togther, just the equivalent of a slide show plus a few parts, because I only have a week's notice. I am changing tack and taking my radio with me to the classroom, if the students are really interested I will lend the classroom my rig until a replacement can be build or bought, and be with them for a couple hours per week as control operator. The science teacher has promised it could be connected outside to a wire antenna of some type if at all possible. So wish me luck, and please use my handle on Usenet rather than my name from now on. I'd rather not be made by some determined lunatic intent on causing me or my family any harm. On Jan 30, 8:46 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: Very well. Andrew, A few thoughts about your idea and some of the responses that it has evoked: First off, I don't think your emphasis should be on transmitting. To me, ham radio is about communication, and communication, first and foremost, is about LISTENING. Listening is what you should emphasize. Since there are both physical laws of nature and interference (natural and man-made) to contend with, the real magic in radio is the antenna, amplifier(s), filter(s), and operator techniques used to extract useful information from a feeble signal. (Case in point: Voyager 1 is now more than 9 BILLION miles from earth, but as long as its flea-power transmitter holds out, we expect to be able to continue receiving data.) There is great fun in building simple receivers, and much to be learned. A few years back, for lack of something better to do one evening, I knocked together a regenerative set on the bench top in the garage. I wound a coil on a toilet paper tube, made a grid-leak capacitor out of a couple of microscope slides and some foil, and hooked up an old #26 tetrode. The rig was "wired" with alligator leads and powered by flashlight batteries. The antenna was 15 feet of wire thumb tacked to the garage ceiling, and the ground was a 'gator clip attached to the cover plate screw of a nearby outlet. A few adjustments later and I found myself listening to a radio-theater presentation of "Dracula" put on by the BBC in London. That's more than 5000 miles from where I live. That's magic. In your case, a FET based regenerative set would be the ticket. Dirt cheap and effective enough to be useful. (I'm thinking something along the lines of 1 FET RF/isolation, 1 FET regen stage, and an LM386 amp chip, which will easily drive common walkman-style headphones.) If you want to teach your kids Morse, use the Code Quick method. Buy a copy of a program called Numorse for yourself, and use this to generate exercises for the kids. You can put the audio on cassette tape or CD's. When they get up to 5 WPM or so, you have them listen to W1AW. The day after a W1AW session you ask the kids some specific question about the text that was sent the previous night. Offer prizes or some kind of encouragement for positive responses. Once they can receive Morse, learning to send is rather easy. This is something of a detour, but have you ever heard recordings of sounds the Ionosphere makes? Remarkable chirps, whistles, clicks, and pops. Slow down the recordings and you get sounds that are startlingly similar to the songs of certain birds, or the calls of whales. The equipment to capture this is cheap and easy to build. This is one situation where a remote location is a real asset, because there is far less man-made electrical noise to foul your recordings. Get a kid hooked on something like this, and who knows what kind of scientific or technical career could develop from this experience. If you insist on transmitting, or equipping your students to transmit before they even have the skills to do so properly, fine, so long as you are certain that your activities are within the boundaries of the law. With regard to the comments of some in this thread I will simply say that the last thing society needs is a "mentor" whose first lesson will essentially be: "If you don't like the rules just ignore them." I am of the opinion that the preponderance of this attitude is responsible for much of the unhappiness in this world. Final thought. I few years back I authored a book on the subject of primitive radio, and how to build radio components from scratch. This includes homemade variable capacitors, tuning coils, detectors, and even headphones. The equipment is built with hand tools and made from such mundane source material as wood, tin cans, cabinet magnets, and cigarette lighter parts. Web link: http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/bks-votc.htm This book has been critically acclaimed by the editors of QST and Practical Wireless in the U.K., and is recommended by at least one teacher's guide:http://www.libraryvideo.com/guides/N...EATDCXALG28J0F... I am sensitive to educational and charitable concerns. If you should express serious interest in using these in a classroom setting, we could discuss how to make this happen. 73 H P "Pete" Friedrichs AC7ZL wrote: The why not say it here? The Eternal Squire On Jan 29, 6:06 pm, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: Squire--- I tried to email you....it bounced back. Pete AC7ZL wrote: The Dine' (I use the term Navajo because most people outside are more familiar with that) are a very proud people who would resent being made fun of like that. To the Dine', we are an alien people out of touch with the rhythms of the land, who are obsessed with consumer goods, technology, money, or bigotry. Even such whites are ourselves who do see what history has done to the Dine' and find it appalling, are viewed as possibly having egotism. The Dine' are more impressed by whites who listen first then act later in small ways that fit what the Dine' already do. You have to live with the Dine' least a couple years before you can even begin to understand the challenge of introducing a new technology in a culturally appropriate manner. The Eternal Squire On Jan 29, 8:50 am, "RST Engineering" wrote: That's true. They sent one kid off to MIT and he came back with a degree in Electrical Engineering. When he got back home he found that the communal restroom had no lights, so to show his gratitude to the tribe he ran electricity to the bathroom. So far as we know, that was the first Indian ever to wire a^head for a reservation. {;-) Jim "John Smith I" wrote in ... Some reservations have sent men to the best colleges and have some of the best attorneys in the world. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
|
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
a cheap ready-made lofer coil is right in an old junker tv..the horizontal
output coil usually has a ferrite adjustment for frequency (horizontal hold)... put another one in series with your 50 foot antenna, and tune that as your load for increased output. I bet you can even use one for a cheapie regen radio down there too...Hmmm time to visit the dump.. ............ "N9WOS" wrote in message ... I had thought to start an unlicensed micro-power code practice net whose range would be limited to about a 30 mile radius, which is about the size of the local reservation right next to the school. What I want to do is provide each kid with a popcorn CW transceiver for the colorburst frequency (3579 khz), a key, a short random wire, and a battery. That way they could practice amongst themselves with myself as occasional net control. My question is this: so long as final output to the antenna is within the requirement of part 15 unlicensed operation, is part 15 unlicensed operation allowed within a band normally governed under part 97? Part 15 operation would easily cover a 30 mile radius on 80M. If no, I'll run the net under part 15 on the edge of the AM band near 160M. Thanks in advance, The Eternal Squire I have been thinking about this for a while before making this reply. I would strongly suggest looking at the lowfer band. 160Kc to 190Kc The limitations are relatively straight forward. Maximum length of feed line, and antenna are 15meters. Maximum power input to the final amp stage is 1W. No other real limitations besides the fact that out of band emissions have to be below a specific point. That is about a 50 foot long antenna. There isn't much of a chance that they will try to string one up longer than that, unless they were really industrious. And they can learn about antenna loading, to get a better transmitted signal/range. The one watt input power level is easy to determine. If the input is 10V then adjust the current to a maximum of 100mA. They can use any mode of communication they want. CW, AM, SSB, FM, PSK31, BPSK, MFSK The sky is the limit as for as modes. If they have computers, most of the digital modes can be implemented with soundcard based communications software that is available as freeware Look up "MULTIPSK" They can set up beacons for propagation checks, or talk to each other in real time. 30 miles is an easy distance to reach with basic loaded antennas. Especially with PSK31 and CW. It will allow them to learn how to build receiving antennas. And if they can't reach, or hear someone on the other side of the reservation, then it will allow them to learn the basics of traffic handling by the stations in the middle relaying information from one station to another. It will also teach them the basics of the narrower bandwidth/greater range relationship. With the low bandwidth BPSK, PSK31 modes, they will easily communicate across the reservation even if they can barely hear each other on voice. You can either get kit equipment for receiving or transmitting, which is widely available on line. Or you can design and build your own. If they are lucky, they may even hear stations, and beacons from hundreds of miles away. Or even thousands. There is nothing like the thrill of DX. |
Where does part 97 end and part 15 begin?
On Jan 25, 9:23 pm, wrote:
All, I have a situation, and would like some opinions rather than flames on how to handle it. My wife teaches at a public school just off the Easter Arizona Navajo reservation. Lately, a junior school science teacher is starting up a science club and has asked me to provide for the amateur radio side of the club and be its control operator. She believes that the kids would be fascinated by the Morse code - Dxing - Construction end of the hobby, even though Morse is no longer a required test element. The kids are mostly Navajo and thusly have a very limited technological background (hence the reason for the club to stir the interest), so I need something concrete with immediate payoff to keep their interest hooked while getting them as ready as I can to write their Technician exam. The nearest VEC is 4 hours away and I'd rather have as few fail as possible. I had thought to start an unlicensed micro-power code practice net whose range would be limited to about a 30 mile radius, which is about the size of the local reservation right next to the school. What I want to do is provide each kid with a popcorn CW transceiver for the colorburst frequency (3579 khz), a key, a short random wire, and a battery. That way they could practice amongst themselves with myself as occasional net control. My question is this: so long as final output to the antenna is within the requirement of part 15 unlicensed operation, is part 15 unlicensed operation allowed within a band normally governed under part 97? Part 15 operation would easily cover a 30 mile radius on 80M. If no, I'll run the net under part 15 on the edge of the AM band near 160M. Thanks in advance, The Eternal Squire First, Good SHow on trying to interest the kids. Secondly, have you investigated 160-190 KHz as an option. The transmit antenna would be limited in length to a max of 50 feet but the receive antenna can be tuned dipoles. The transmitter is limited to 1 watt output so it will be a heck of a lot easier to measure then the Low power Part 15 devices. If they live in a rural area they should have little manmade noise to contend with. Tuning the receiver and transmitter can be done with an oscope and low frequency generator. The other thing is the receiver can use a block converter with an AM radio. |
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