Of course, I already had the power strip. My point was that the power
supply was designed by engineers who didnt think about where it would
be used. I have other power supplies, like for the printer and scanner
that have both input and output cords that dont crowd out anything
else on your UPS.

And of course, part of the reason I ended up living out here was that
it was so cheap. Even now, land can be had for less than 1000$/acre.
Hardly any of the real estate ads are for homes & property over 250k.
Lotsa other old hippies in the woods who never made much money, never
will, but we can afford to live here.

There's lotsa 34 ft TV antenna masts laying around behind the barns
since folks put in the dish TV. Lotsa 12' foot booms for Yagis too, to
be had for scrap metal prices.

I can see where you all with your licenses and equipment mite be
worried about the FCC, but not out here. Its 100 miles to Little Rock
if you wanna take a Ham exam. Why should the bureacrats runnin the FCC
these days be any more competent than those running FEMA or The VA?
And if I make this thing cheap enuf, there wont be any *money* in it
for them coming out to get me. My ass aint worth anything, and I dont
have clear title to the land. All they'd get would be 20$ worth of
scrap metal.

Back when we used CB radios to talk to each other, we bitched to the
FCC about jerks in urban areas putting *1000* watts on a CB channel.
Where was the FCC then? No, man, out here, we are off the radar map. I
dont expect any help from the Arkansas public service either. We dont
have the votes, and we dont have the money, so they dont care what we
do.

The way electonic parts prices have fallen, it'll prolly cost me more
to put up the antennas. And without a tuned yagi, none of the
commercial tuners will pick up anything. If anyone has a more
appropriate forum to raise these questions in, I'd be grateful, and
quit bothering you.

"Day Brown" wrote in message
s.com...
My point was that the power
supply was designed by engineers who didnt think about where it would
be used.

I very much doubt that -- it's much more likely they simply decided that
saving a little money was worth more than adding a little user convenience.

And if I make this thing cheap enuf, there wont be any *money* in it
for them coming out to get me.

Again, I disagree. If you make it so cheap it really catches on, sooner or
later it *will* be used in an area such that it intereferes with someone with
deep pockets and you'll get sucked into a lawsuit. If you're going to so
flagrantly ignore FCC regulations, you should simply publish *plans* for your
design so that you can't personally be convicted of selling non-type-accepted
equipment... unless you do want to have bars for windows for some time. :-)

Back when we used CB radios to talk to each other, we bitched to the
FCC about jerks in urban areas putting *1000* watts on a CB channel.
Where was the FCC then? No, man, out here, we are off the radar map.

The FCC does still routinely bust retailers for selling CB band linear
amplifiers and rigs that can transmit outside the CB frequencies.

I still think your best bet it to use 2.4GHz WiFi gear linked "house to house"
with cheap dish antennas on towers. Get that amateur radio license and you
can legally run enough power that you'll easily make the distances, and no one
will question why it is you're buying, e.g., 10W 2.4GHz amplifiers. Those
dish antennas are probably going to be a lot cheaper than a bunch of Yagis
anyway...

---Joel

Joel Kolstad wrote:
I still think your best bet it to use 2.4GHz WiFi gear linked "house to house"
with cheap dish antennas on towers. Get that amateur radio license and you
can legally run enough power that you'll easily make the distances, and no one
will question why it is you're buying, e.g., 10W 2.4GHz amplifiers. Those
dish antennas are probably going to be a lot cheaper than a bunch of Yagis
anyway...

The FCC allows 4 watts EIRP for fixed point to point WiFi links. At 2.4gHz
this is a lot of power, usually created by focusing the output of a
regular router or similar device with a small dish or Yagi.

For example, the well publicised "Pringles Can" antenna can be easily
modified to put out that much from a 100mw source. You need line of site,
but if you figure a two routers, antennas, wires, etc can be purchased in the
U.S. for less than $200, you can set up a whole relay system.

The latency will be much too high for VoIP and video conferencing, but
websurfing and file downloading would be fine.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

On Mar 6, 8:07 pm, "Joel Kolstad"
wrote:
"Day Brown" wrote in message

s.com...

My point was that the power
supply was designed by engineers who didnt think about where it would
be used.

I very much doubt that -- it's much more likely they simply decided that
saving a little money was worth more than adding a little user convenience.

And if I make this thing cheap enuf, there wont be any *money* in it
for them coming out to get me.

Again, I disagree. If you make it so cheap it really catches on, sooner or
later it *will* be used in an area such that it intereferes with someone with
deep pockets and you'll get sucked into a lawsuit. If you're going to so
flagrantly ignore FCC regulations, you should simply publish *plans* for your
design so that you can't personally be convicted of selling non-type-accepted
equipment... unless you do want to have bars for windows for some time. :-)

Back when we used CB radios to talk to each other, we bitched to the
FCC about jerks in urban areas putting *1000* watts on a CB channel.
Where was the FCC then? No, man, out here, we are off the radar map.

The FCC does still routinely bust retailers for selling CB band linear
amplifiers and rigs that can transmit outside the CB frequencies.

I still think your best bet it to use 2.4GHz WiFi gear linked "house to house"
with cheap dish antennas on towers. Get that amateur radio license and you
can legally run enough power that you'll easily make the distances, and no one
will question why it is you're buying, e.g., 10W 2.4GHz amplifiers. Those
dish antennas are probably going to be a lot cheaper than a bunch of Yagis
anyway...
Even if its cheap, it aint *easy*. a 180 mhz Yagi on a 30 foot pole
compared to the soup can users would take to in shorter range high
density regions where they need more channels.

But in any case, whether you all know the technical issues or not, I'm
not going to get that feedback here, so I'll quit bothering you.
My address is 1984 Kirkendoll rd, Clinton AR, 72031. you have my email
addy. send it to the FCC for all I care. That's how much I think they
will give **** what goes on out here. Besides, there is a whole world
out there of remote areas that are not served well beyond the reach,
whatever that is, of the FCC or their ass kissing agenda to big media.
It this takes off, by the time the FCC figures it out, it'll be like
trying to get CB users to register. snurk

Hi Day,

"Day Brown" wrote in message
ps.com...
My address is 1984 Kirkendoll rd, Clinton AR, 72031. you have my email
addy.

That doesn't appear to be nearly so much in the "boonies" as I would have
thought. As the crow flies you're only something like 5 miles from I-65,
right? I'd predict that within a decade you'll be able to come up with some
reasonably high-speed, reasonably cheap solution based on the cell service
providers rolling out high-speed data services along the interstate there, if
you don't already have the option of getting a cable modem or DSL just as soon
if you're willing to pay for the cable back to highway 16.

---Joel

Day Brown wrote:

Without clear Line Of Sight do not exist. I intend to solve that
problem. If I do, I'll get rich. The equipment now being offered is
not deigned by people who live in rural ares, but engineers who, at
best, are in suburban office parks.

Right now, I'm using the satellite data from hughes.net. Its not the
high speed bandwidth advertised. The power supply was designed to be
plugged into the wall. [that's a period] But if you live out here, you
know the power goes out. but if you plug their power supply into your
UPS, you find the damn thing blocks the next two backed up power
outlets. Hello?

I've tried the 900mhz wireless transceiver. which needs a clear LOS
(Line of Sight). I like living in the woods; and I'm not going to
clearcut just so I can get a clear line of sight to the ISP
transmitter tower. Hello?

I also have a place in a deep hollow by a spring fed trout stream. No
way will any of the commecially available wireless transmitters work
down there. You cant even use a cell phone. Hello?

No, I'm thinking about 180 mhz, kinda close to TV channel 8, but...
out here, the nearest TV channel 8 transmitter is 300 miles away.
Besides, TV antennas are being scrapped all the time; everyone is
switching to Dish TV. Out in rural areas, RFI/EMI from ham gear no
longer bothers anyone watching TV.

Besides, seems like there mite be pulse emitters/detectors that work
at this speed. No Carrier wave, no IF. Technically, its *NOT*
"radio". Ordinary tuners would ignore it; it aint AM nor FM. A 12 db
antenna would be about 13' foot long. Awta go 30 miles to an ISP in
some town that stays up serving users on the weekends. I've tried all
three of the local small town ISPs, which have a nasty habit of
crashing on friday nite, and not coming back online til monday
morning.

I called "support" one time to bitch, and mentioned that I used Linux.
The response: "What's Linux?"

But what's the best option to go from full duplex into the PC? will
the standard LAN multiplex at 180mhz? RS232?

Try a full duplex repeater using solar cells at the top of the hill.

John

On 11 Mar, 21:04, John wrote:
Day Brown wrote:

Without clear Line Of Sight do not exist. I intend to solve that
problem. If I do, I'll get rich. The equipment now being offered is
not deigned by people who live in rural ares, but engineers who, at
best, are in suburban office parks.

Right now, I'm using the satellite data from hughes.net. Its not the
high speed bandwidth advertised. The power supply was designed to be
plugged into the wall. [that's a period] But if you live out here, you
know the power goes out. but if you plug their power supply into your
UPS, you find the damn thing blocks the next two backed up power
outlets. Hello?

I've tried the 900mhz wireless transceiver. which needs a clear LOS
(Line of Sight). I like living in the woods; and I'm not going to
clearcut just so I can get a clear line of sight to the ISP
transmitter tower. Hello?

I also have a place in a deep hollow by a spring fed trout stream. No
way will any of the commecially available wireless transmitters work
down there. You cant even use a cell phone. Hello?

No, I'm thinking about 180 mhz, kinda close to TV channel 8, but...
out here, the nearest TV channel 8 transmitter is 300 miles away.
Besides, TV antennas are being scrapped all the time; everyone is
switching to Dish TV. Out in rural areas, RFI/EMI from ham gear no
longer bothers anyone watching TV.

Besides, seems like there mite be pulse emitters/detectors that work
at this speed. No Carrier wave, no IF. Technically, its *NOT*
"radio". Ordinary tuners would ignore it; it aint AM nor FM. A 12 db
antenna would be about 13' foot long. Awta go 30 miles to an ISP in
some town that stays up serving users on the weekends. I've tried all
three of the local small town ISPs, which have a nasty habit of
crashing on friday nite, and not coming back online til monday
morning.

I called "support" one time to bitch, and mentioned that I used Linux.
The response: "What's Linux?"

But what's the best option to go from full duplex into the PC? will
the standard LAN multiplex at 180mhz? RS232?

Try a full duplex repeater using solar cells at the top of the hill.

John

While he is "out in the boonies", the other end of any Internet access
link that he establishes will have to be in a residential or municipal
environment in order to get access to Internet facilities. That alone
puts some obvious restrictions on what he will be able to do.

Arv
_._

"Day Brown" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 3, 1:28 pm, (Michael Black) wrote:
"Day Brown" ) writes:
No, I'm thinking about 180 mhz, kinda close to TV channel 8, but...
out here, the nearest TV channel 8 transmitter is 300 miles away.
Besides, TV antennas are being scrapped all the time; everyone is
switching to Dish TV. Out in rural areas, RFI/EMI from ham gear no
longer bothers anyone watching TV.

Besides, seems like there mite be pulse emitters/detectors that work
at this speed. No Carrier wave, no IF. Technically, its *NOT*
"radio". Ordinary tuners would ignore it; it aint AM nor FM. A 12 db
antenna would be about 13' foot long. Awta go 30 miles to an ISP in
some town that stays up serving users on the weekends. I've tried all
three of the local small town ISPs, which have a nasty habit of
crashing on friday nite, and not coming back online til monday
morning.

Of course it's radio. You'll find that if you aren't radiating a signal,
there's no signal and it's not radio. Otherwise, it's radio. And that
means licensing and all the rest.

And there's a good reason wifi is higher in frequency. Because the
bandwidth is there, to allow for multiple signals. Likewise, the shorter
range means losts of points can reuse the same frequency, because the
range
is quite limited. And of course, the higher the bandwidth of data, the
more radio space it uses.

Move to a lower frequency, and you'll have less chance to control the
signal.
You may find there's too much interference to other users. There may not
be enough radio bandwidth for everyone who wants it.

That you don't realize this would be radio is a good indication, like
someone
else suggests, that there is no solution for you because you don't have
the grounding to go anywhere with it.
The whole reason there's a problem is that there aint that many users.
If there was, DSL would be here. If you drive from Little Rock north
thru the Ozarks up US 65 twards Springfield MO, most of the time you
can use your cell phone. But get 20 miles east or west of that string
of transponders, and its dead even if you are on a mountain, never
mind behind a ridgeline, much less down in a creek bottom.

You already answered your question, Christian radio (and TV stations) can be
found throughout your part of the Bible belt. Sadly, these promoters still
don't "get the Internet and rural access" (part of this is due to alignment
'of some' that technology is bad)
IF they did -- you would not have an Internet access problem.

Arv wrote:

On 11 Mar, 21:04, John wrote:
Day Brown wrote:

Without clear Line Of Sight do not exist. I intend to solve that
problem. If I do, I'll get rich. The equipment now being offered is
not deigned by people who live in rural ares, but engineers who, at
best, are in suburban office parks.

Right now, I'm using the satellite data from hughes.net. Its not the
high speed bandwidth advertised. The power supply was designed to be
plugged into the wall. [that's a period] But if you live out here, you
know the power goes out. but if you plug their power supply into your
UPS, you find the damn thing blocks the next two backed up power
outlets. Hello?

I've tried the 900mhz wireless transceiver. which needs a clear LOS
(Line of Sight). I like living in the woods; and I'm not going to
clearcut just so I can get a clear line of sight to the ISP
transmitter tower. Hello?

I also have a place in a deep hollow by a spring fed trout stream. No
way will any of the commecially available wireless transmitters work
down there. You cant even use a cell phone. Hello?

No, I'm thinking about 180 mhz, kinda close to TV channel 8, but...
out here, the nearest TV channel 8 transmitter is 300 miles away.
Besides, TV antennas are being scrapped all the time; everyone is
switching to Dish TV. Out in rural areas, RFI/EMI from ham gear no
longer bothers anyone watching TV.

Besides, seems like there mite be pulse emitters/detectors that work
at this speed. No Carrier wave, no IF. Technically, its *NOT*
"radio". Ordinary tuners would ignore it; it aint AM nor FM. A 12 db
antenna would be about 13' foot long. Awta go 30 miles to an ISP in
some town that stays up serving users on the weekends. I've tried all
three of the local small town ISPs, which have a nasty habit of
crashing on friday nite, and not coming back online til monday
morning.

I called "support" one time to bitch, and mentioned that I used Linux.
The response: "What's Linux?"

But what's the best option to go from full duplex into the PC? will
the standard LAN multiplex at 180mhz? RS232?

Try a full duplex repeater using solar cells at the top of the hill.

John

While he is "out in the boonies", the other end of any Internet access
link that he establishes will have to be in a residential or municipal
environment in order to get access to Internet facilities. That alone
puts some obvious restrictions on what he will be able to do.

Arv
_._

Big old dish from an obsolete tv microwave system aimed at the city with
another one aimed down the hill. Depending on path loses, you may just
be able to use two horns from one dish to the other. The first thing to
be done is to find what you have to work with at the top of the hill.
You need to find the existing signal levels.. IF there is a high
mountain toward the side of the signal path you might be able to bounce
it off that mountain if it is mostly rock.

have fun.


John

John

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:59:43 -0500, John
wrote:

Arv wrote:

On 11 Mar, 21:04, John wrote:
Day Brown wrote:

Without clear Line Of Sight do not exist. I intend to solve that
problem. If I do, I'll get rich. The equipment now being offered is
not deigned by people who live in rural ares, but engineers who, at
best, are in suburban office parks.

Right now, I'm using the satellite data from hughes.net. Its not the
high speed bandwidth advertised. The power supply was designed to be
plugged into the wall. [that's a period] But if you live out here, you
know the power goes out. but if you plug their power supply into your
UPS, you find the damn thing blocks the next two backed up power
outlets. Hello?

Cheat. Use a very short extension cord between the UPS and the wall
wart.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com