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Old December 7th 08, 08:48 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc):

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf

the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this
mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp?

As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the
center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule?
Or...?

Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the
terminology straight...

Thanks.


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Old December 7th 08, 09:16 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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Posts: 1,183
Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

SparkyGuy wrote:
Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc):

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf

the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this
mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp?

As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the
center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule?
Or...?

Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the
terminology straight...

Thanks.

No soldering. You need the correct Paladin die.
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Old December 7th 08, 09:23 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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Posts: 202
Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:48:14 -0800, SparkyGuy wrote:

Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc):

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf

the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does
this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp?

As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the
center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield
ferrule? Or...?

Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the
terminology straight...

Thanks.


The common BNC "crimp" connectors have you solder the center pin to the
center conductor of the cable, then assemble the outer with a crimp.


It works quite well in my experience, but I have yet to do this without
distorting the center insulator and having to trim it with an X-acto
knife to get it to fit, and I'm sure that in a critical application (like
TNC in the GHz) that I'd be creating an unpredictable impedance bump with
my hacking. This is bad enough with cables that have solid dielectric; I
can only imagine the pain it would be with foam. In a production
environment I'd almost certainly want to spring for the necessary crimp
tool to crimp the inner, if the quality were there.

(This is opposed to BNC connectors where you thread in a plug to capture
the outer conductor between the outer shell and a rubber insert. It also
works well, but it is bulky and the connectors cost more. And you're
still asked to solder the center pin on, with all of the accompanying
center insulator distortion issues).

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
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Old December 7th 08, 11:52 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 625
Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

On Dec 7, 4:23*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:48:14 -0800, SparkyGuy wrote:
Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc):


http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf


the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does
this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp?


As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the
center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield
ferrule? Or...?


Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the
terminology straight...


Thanks.


The common BNC "crimp" connectors have you solder the center pin to the
center conductor of the cable, then assemble the outer with a crimp.

It works quite well in my experience, but I have yet to do this without
distorting the center insulator and having to trim it with an X-acto
knife to get it to fit, and I'm sure that in a critical application (like
TNC in the GHz) that I'd be creating an unpredictable impedance bump with
my hacking. *This is bad enough with cables that have solid dielectric; I
can only imagine the pain it would be with foam. *In a production
environment I'd almost certainly want to spring for the necessary crimp
tool to crimp the inner, if the quality were there.

(This is opposed to BNC connectors where you thread in a plug to capture
the outer conductor between the outer shell and a rubber insert. *It also
works well, but it is bulky and the connectors cost more. *And you're
still asked to solder the center pin on, with all of the accompanying
center insulator distortion issues).

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems.
I have an old Weller soldering gun with the tip removed. I wedge the
pin between the two electodes on the gun, slide the pin over the
tinned center conductor and pull the trigger for a couple of seconds.
The pin cools almost instantly preventing deformation of the
insulation. Ive been doing this for over 20 years using the same gun.
This may take a little practice not to melt the insulation. I
remember that it wasnt to bad getting the hang of it.

Jimmie
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Old December 8th 08, 05:24 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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Posts: 242
Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

On Dec 7, 6:52*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Dec 7, 4:23*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:



On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:48:14 -0800, SparkyGuy wrote:
Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc):


http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf


the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does
this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp?


As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the
center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield
ferrule? Or...?


Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the
terminology straight...


Thanks.


The common BNC "crimp" connectors have you solder the center pin to the
center conductor of the cable, then assemble the outer with a crimp.


It works quite well in my experience, but I have yet to do this without
distorting the center insulator and having to trim it with an X-acto
knife to get it to fit, and I'm sure that in a critical application (like
TNC in the GHz) that I'd be creating an unpredictable impedance bump with
my hacking. *This is bad enough with cables that have solid dielectric; I
can only imagine the pain it would be with foam. *In a production
environment I'd almost certainly want to spring for the necessary crimp
tool to crimp the inner, if the quality were there.


(This is opposed to BNC connectors where you thread in a plug to capture
the outer conductor between the outer shell and a rubber insert. *It also
works well, but it is bulky and the connectors cost more. *And you're
still asked to solder the center pin on, with all of the accompanying
center insulator distortion issues).


--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com


Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html-Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems.
I have an old Weller soldering gun with the tip removed. I wedge the
pin between the two electodes on the gun, slide the pin over the
tinned center conductor and pull the trigger for a couple of seconds.
The pin cools almost instantly preventing deformation of the
insulation. Ive been doing this for over 20 years using the same gun.
This may take a little practice not to melt the insulation. I
remember *that it wasnt to bad getting the hang of it.

Jimmie


Hey OM
What size gun did you has a 240watt? How did you get the electrodes so
close together? Isn't the center pin of an N connector really small?
Or maybe you making lots 7/8 inch of heliax cables huh? Where the
center conductor is like 3/8 in copper tubing. Where the 3/8 inch
copper tubing would conduct all the heat away from the insulation?


73 OM
n8zu


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Old December 8th 08, 09:13 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,336
Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:52:21 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems.


In past life, in a land far far away (Smog Angeles), I once worked for
and later ran a comm shop. At the time, UG-21/U male N connectors
were commonly available and in fashion. Our 460MHz repeater systems
were full of them so I had plenty of experience in soldering,
assembling, and repairing these connectors. I don't want to remember
all the 25 mile joy rides up the fire road to Santiago and Mojeska Pk
just to fix a problem caused by a flakey UG-21/U coax connector. Well,
to be totally accurate, I had equal problems with soldered PL-259
connectors. I fought these problems for years because I assumed there
was no better way.

Meanwhile, I was also involved in an avionics shop (on the business
end). They were slowly switching from soldered to crimp type
connectors. The owner insisted that is was worth the effort because
the number of connector failures and rework had approached zero with
the crimp type. I became a believer overnight.

Many years later, I designed a few marine radios for the USCG. The
specs would tolerate either solder or crimp. So, I asked which they
preferred. Crimp was the answer, because they never could teach the
techs how to properly solder a connector, while the crimper always
does it right. All our radios used crimp connectors, even on the
inside.

Roll forward more years and we have 10Base2 and 10baseT ethernet. The
former uses UG-21/u N connectors. The latter uses BNC. The nice
yellow coax cable with the flakey connector was a constant source of
headaches. The crimp type BNC's never failed (unless abused).

I'm not sure what to suggest. With skill UG-21/u can be made to work.
With luck, they can even be kept working in the field. However, I'll
take crimp type any day, especially after many year of experience
dealing with both.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Old December 9th 08, 04:12 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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Posts: 199
Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

raypsi wrote:
Hey OM
What size gun did you has a 240watt?

[snip]
73 OM
n8zu


Weller manufactures the following of that type of solder guns:

8200 = 140/100W
D550 = 260/200W
D650 = 300/200W

See http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm

I have an 8200. They make plain copper and iron-clad copper tips (the
iron-clad tips last longer). The beauty is that, when your only tip goes
open and the local hardware store is closed and you HAVE TO solder
something, 12ga solid copper wire can be formed into a tip.

vy 73,
Bryan WA7PRC


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Old December 9th 08, 05:02 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Sep 2006
Posts: 236
Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

I still have a dual power (500/250) model Weller gun that a friend bought
while we were in the Air Force. He took it out of the package and dropped it
on the floor accidentially. A tiny piece of non functional plastic busted
off the top, so he threw it in the trash can (he was having a bad day). I
pulled it out of the trash, plugged it in and showed him that it still
worked fine. I then offered it back to him. He wanted no parts of it. I'm
still using it to this day. That 500 watt heating range actually comes in
handy now and then.

Ed Cregger

"Bryan" wrote in message
...
raypsi wrote:
Hey OM
What size gun did you has a 240watt?

[snip]
73 OM
n8zu


Weller manufactures the following of that type of solder guns:

8200 = 140/100W
D550 = 260/200W
D650 = 300/200W

See http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm

I have an 8200. They make plain copper and iron-clad copper tips (the
iron-clad tips last longer). The beauty is that, when your only tip goes
open and the local hardware store is closed and you HAVE TO solder
something, 12ga solid copper wire can be formed into a tip.

vy 73,
Bryan WA7PRC



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Old December 9th 08, 09:38 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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Posts: 242
Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

On Dec 8, 11:12*pm, "Bryan" wrote:
raypsi wrote:
Hey OM
What size gun did you has a 240watt?

[snip]
73 OM
n8zu


Weller manufactures the following of that type of solder guns:

8200 = 140/100W
D550 = 260/200W
D650 = 300/200W

Seehttp://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm

I have an 8200. *They make plain copper and iron-clad copper tips (the


Hey OM

But can you wedge a center pin from an N connector in between the
electrodes of your 140watt gun (without a tip in the gun) and solder
in the center conductor of a piece of coax? hmmm?

73 OM

n8zu
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Old December 9th 08, 03:52 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
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Posts: 77
Default "Dual crimp" coax connectors?

On Dec 8, 4:13*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:52:21 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

wrote:
Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems.


In past life, in a land far far away (Smog Angeles), I once worked for
and later ran a comm shop. *At the time, UG-21/U male N connectors
were commonly available and in fashion. *Our 460MHz repeater systems
were full of them so I had plenty of experience in soldering,
assembling, and repairing these connectors. *I don't want to remember
all the 25 mile joy rides up the fire road to Santiago and Mojeska Pk
just to fix a problem caused by a flakey UG-21/U coax connector. Well,
to be totally accurate, I had equal problems with soldered PL-259
connectors. *I fought these problems for years because I assumed there
was no better way.

Meanwhile, I was also involved in an avionics shop (on the business
end). *They were slowly switching from soldered to crimp type
connectors. *The owner insisted that is was worth the effort because
the number of connector failures and rework had approached zero with
the crimp type. *I became a believer overnight.

Many years later, I designed a few marine radios for the USCG. *The
specs would tolerate either solder or crimp. *So, I asked which they
preferred. *Crimp was the answer, because they never could teach the
techs how to properly solder a connector, while the crimper always
does it right. *All our radios used crimp connectors, even on the
inside.

Roll forward more years and we have 10Base2 and 10baseT ethernet. *The
former uses UG-21/u N connectors. *The latter uses BNC. *The nice
yellow coax cable with the flakey connector was a constant source of
headaches. *The crimp type BNC's never failed (unless abused).

I'm not sure what to suggest. *With skill UG-21/u can be made to work.
With luck, they can even be kept working in the field. *However, I'll
take crimp type any day, especially after many year of experience
dealing with both.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558


I dont have a problem with crimp on terminals just that where I work
someone has always borrowed the crimp tool just when I need it. I
always have my trusty soldeing gun handy, no one wants to borrow it.
For me one is as easy and works as well as the other. The biggest
problem I have with the non crimp type is the shield is eventually
cut from the connector. The ones at work that are disconnected weekly
for preventive maintenance have only lasted about 20 years before
needing the connectors replaced, BUMMER. The crimp-on type are not
without their problems. I was doing an inspection after some equipment
installation and was able to pull the the ends off of 20 BNC
connectors. The inspection stopped at that point and the decision was
made to reaccomplish all of the connectors, about 200 of them. The
installer was not happy. The problem turned out to be a bad crimp
tool. Like the solder-ons if done properly they are both reliable
connections.

Jimmie


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