In message , Tim Wescott
writes
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:38:57 -0700, wrote:

im an EE, but have never gotten into ham radio. Now, I have a reason! Im
going off roading in the california desert, and I'd like to be able to
communicate back home in San Diego. What band and equipment would be the
best (for both base and mobile) in order to communicate reliably during
the day? Or is this unreasonable?

Someone will disagree, and we'll both learn something...

For getting through with just your equipment probably HF; on a truck it's
probably best to count on 20m, although at that distance 80m is
inherently 'better' for ground-wave daytime local-ish communication.

For getting through all the time, and assuming there's coverage, a
repeater. It won't get you all the way home unless there's a phone patch
available or an intertie. Since repeater clubs have widely varying
policies regarding furreners using their equipment, and the most common
arrangement is that anyone can use the repeater but only club members get
the magic finger ring combination to open the patch or the intertie you
may want to do some research.

For getting through all the time, with cost and effort rivaled by buying
a second rig to tow behind your main rig just so you can drive home, you
could set up for satellite operation. I'm not recommending this unless
you just plain want to have fun with it, but there you are.

Note that _all_ of these options except for the phone patch require that
you have someone with an amateur license and a matching radio on the
other end.

In the height of summer, in daytime, a maximum of around 300 miles would
be normal for 80m, but I think you'll be lucky reliably to get 500
miles. In fact, apart from very local stations, you could find 80m
totally dead between 11am and 2pm. Depending on ground conductivity,
groundwave goes out to around 20 miles before skywave really takes over.

If the sunspots on the sun had been a bit more active, and conditions on
40m had been 'normal', this band would have been a the definite
'general-purpose' choice. Groundwave is noticeably less than on 80m.
Typical communication range is 50 to 500+ miles.

On 20m, 100 miles is a bit close. You're unlikely to get reliable
communication at less than 250 or 300 miles. Groundwave is even less
than 40 - maybe only 5 miles.
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:
On 20m, 100 miles is a bit close. You're unlikely to get reliable
communication at less than 250 or 300 miles. Groundwave is even less
than 40 - maybe only 5 miles.

I think you might be better off getting a CB. If only because when you need
help, you are much more likely to find someone nearby with the ability to
reach you or summon help.

If you want reliable communication over that terrain and distance, you
need a satellite phone. Every else ranges from "will never work" to
"probably will work most of the time", but not "will always work".

Of course the big question is why? Are you looking for help if you need it?
Are you just looking for a way "phone home"? Do you expect to have your
employer/customers call you for support?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

In message , Geoffrey S.
Mendelson writes
Ian Jackson wrote:
On 20m, 100 miles is a bit close. You're unlikely to get reliable
communication at less than 250 or 300 miles. Groundwave is even less
than 40 - maybe only 5 miles.

I think you might be better off getting a CB. If only because when you need
help, you are much more likely to find someone nearby with the ability to
reach you or summon help.

If you want reliable communication over that terrain and distance, you
need a satellite phone. Every else ranges from "will never work" to
"probably will work most of the time", but not "will always work".

Of course the big question is why? Are you looking for help if you need it?
Are you just looking for a way "phone home"? Do you expect to have your
employer/customers call you for support?

Agreed. Unless there are any hills in the way, legal 27MHz CB should get
you a reliable 5 to 10 miles and, in the USA, I believe is a lot more
popular than elsewhere, and you could well be within range of other CB
users. And you don't need to pass an exam to get a licence (or even have
a licence). However, especially for real emergencies, it would be unwise
to rely on any ad hoc forms of radio communication. A satellite phone
would seem to be the way to go.
--
Ian

Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?

wrote:
2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

Ok, so that needs a general class or better license at both end. Do you
have a family member interested too?


3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?


Look up NVIS, I described it in a post that crossed yours.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

wrote:
Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?


I guess a cellphone is out of range? You're not going to have reliable
"100+ mile coverage" with a CB or even with ham radio on a simple "push
button to talk" basis unless both parties are licenced and have some
knowledge about how radio works.
You need one of those 'illegal' phones like they sell in Brasil

Sat phones do this type of thing, not inexpensive though. Some of those
Brasilian phones illegally utilise military frequencies via US-DOD
satellites!

May I recommend a digital camera, 99 cent spiral bound notebook and a
pencil as the latest and least inexpensive technological breakthrough?

-Bill

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:16:56 -0700, wrote:

Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

Go for it, then! You'll find that building stuff is definitely something
that's only worth it if you have fun -- the days of building stuff on the
cheap from dead TVs are long gone.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor of
being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and tell
them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

Hey! What about the rest of the world! You can talk to them, too.

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work well
so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of a
problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?

Nearly all modern HF rigs cover 160 to 10 meters, so what you operate on
out there is pretty much limited by your antenna. What band is good is
mostly determined by the state of the ionosphere, which changes with the
day, time of day, day of the year, and the state of the sun. So I'd
recommend that you get or make an antenna that's good on a lot of bands,
and find what works best for you.

The only real caveat to that is that longer wavelengths and small
antennas don't go well together, so the system tends to be much lossier
for 40m and longer with your average car-mount antenna. That doesn't
mean it can't work, it just means that you have to take more care with
the antenna, or plan on packing a BIG antenna that you can put up when
you stop.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

wrote:
Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?


Get a modern solid state radio that covers all HF ham bands and an
antenna such as the "Outbacker" or "Screwdriver" so that you have one
mobile antenna capable of being tuned to any HF band. I would say that
40 meters would be one of the better choices during the day but with the
multiband antenna, you try the different bands until you find the one
that works at the time you try calling.

Scott
N0EDV

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:20:55 +0000, Scott wrote:

wrote:
Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor of
being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and tell
them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of a
problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?


Get a modern solid state radio that covers all HF ham bands and an
antenna such as the "Outbacker" or "Screwdriver" so that you have one
mobile antenna capable of being tuned to any HF band. I would say that
40 meters would be one of the better choices during the day but with the
multiband antenna, you try the different bands until you find the one
that works at the time you try calling.

Scott
N0EDV

Yea verily. What I was trying to say, only better stated.

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

40 meters might be better. 20m if conditions permit. 80m at night but is
more difficult for mobile ops. Your choice of frequencies depends on time
of day, seasonal and subject to the ever changing ionosphere. Typically
what frequency works at a given time of day will work the same time the next
day but maybe not. Some study and experience is required.


wrote in message
...
Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?