In message , Geoffrey S.
Mendelson writes
Ian Jackson wrote:
On 20m, 100 miles is a bit close. You're unlikely to get reliable
communication at less than 250 or 300 miles. Groundwave is even less
than 40 - maybe only 5 miles.

I think you might be better off getting a CB. If only because when you need
help, you are much more likely to find someone nearby with the ability to
reach you or summon help.

If you want reliable communication over that terrain and distance, you
need a satellite phone. Every else ranges from "will never work" to
"probably will work most of the time", but not "will always work".

Of course the big question is why? Are you looking for help if you need it?
Are you just looking for a way "phone home"? Do you expect to have your
employer/customers call you for support?

Agreed. Unless there are any hills in the way, legal 27MHz CB should get
you a reliable 5 to 10 miles and, in the USA, I believe is a lot more
popular than elsewhere, and you could well be within range of other CB
users. And you don't need to pass an exam to get a licence (or even have
a licence). However, especially for real emergencies, it would be unwise
to rely on any ad hoc forms of radio communication. A satellite phone
would seem to be the way to go.
--
Ian

Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?

wrote:
2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

Ok, so that needs a general class or better license at both end. Do you
have a family member interested too?


3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?


Look up NVIS, I described it in a post that crossed yours.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

wrote:
Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?


I guess a cellphone is out of range? You're not going to have reliable
"100+ mile coverage" with a CB or even with ham radio on a simple "push
button to talk" basis unless both parties are licenced and have some
knowledge about how radio works.
You need one of those 'illegal' phones like they sell in Brasil

Sat phones do this type of thing, not inexpensive though. Some of those
Brasilian phones illegally utilise military frequencies via US-DOD
satellites!

May I recommend a digital camera, 99 cent spiral bound notebook and a
pencil as the latest and least inexpensive technological breakthrough?

-Bill

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:16:56 -0700, wrote:

Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

Go for it, then! You'll find that building stuff is definitely something
that's only worth it if you have fun -- the days of building stuff on the
cheap from dead TVs are long gone.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor of
being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and tell
them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

Hey! What about the rest of the world! You can talk to them, too.

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work well
so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of a
problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?

Nearly all modern HF rigs cover 160 to 10 meters, so what you operate on
out there is pretty much limited by your antenna. What band is good is
mostly determined by the state of the ionosphere, which changes with the
day, time of day, day of the year, and the state of the sun. So I'd
recommend that you get or make an antenna that's good on a lot of bands,
and find what works best for you.

The only real caveat to that is that longer wavelengths and small
antennas don't go well together, so the system tends to be much lossier
for 40m and longer with your average car-mount antenna. That doesn't
mean it can't work, it just means that you have to take more care with
the antenna, or plan on packing a BIG antenna that you can put up when
you stop.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

wrote:
Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?


Get a modern solid state radio that covers all HF ham bands and an
antenna such as the "Outbacker" or "Screwdriver" so that you have one
mobile antenna capable of being tuned to any HF band. I would say that
40 meters would be one of the better choices during the day but with the
multiband antenna, you try the different bands until you find the one
that works at the time you try calling.

Scott
N0EDV

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:20:55 +0000, Scott wrote:

wrote:
Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor of
being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and tell
them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of a
problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?


Get a modern solid state radio that covers all HF ham bands and an
antenna such as the "Outbacker" or "Screwdriver" so that you have one
mobile antenna capable of being tuned to any HF band. I would say that
40 meters would be one of the better choices during the day but with the
multiband antenna, you try the different bands until you find the one
that works at the time you try calling.

Scott
N0EDV

Yea verily. What I was trying to say, only better stated.

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

40 meters might be better. 20m if conditions permit. 80m at night but is
more difficult for mobile ops. Your choice of frequencies depends on time
of day, seasonal and subject to the ever changing ionosphere. Typically
what frequency works at a given time of day will work the same time the next
day but maybe not. Some study and experience is required.


wrote in message
...
Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldnt 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?

On Jul 28, 7:16*pm, " wrote:
Thank you for all your excellent and useful responses!

To clarify my purpose:

1- I've been waiting for an excuse to get into Ham radio. I'm very
interested in learning RF circuitry (Experimental Methods in RF Design
is enroute as we speak), and this is a perfect opportunity, because I
actually need it! So Im up for getting a license.

2- The purpose of the radio is for emergency and for the cool factor
of being able to talk to home from 100+ miles away in the desert and
tell them about all the sand and rocks i see. Exciting for them!

3- The CB does sound better for emergency. So now, lets change the
purpose of the ham radio to just "cool of taking to home 100+ miles
away". And I will get a CB for emergency.

I had been leaning toward 20 meters since it has been described
everywhere as the DX band of choice. Now I see that it may not work
well so "close" as 100 miles. But wouldn't 80 meters have even more of
a problem? I am still not clear on which band to use...maybe some more
help please?

Just to give some idea of the variability of 'Amateur Bands' due to
solar radiation, time of day etc.
Back some 50+ years ago had a war surplus receiver and on 20 metres
(14 megahertz) band could listen to the Australian amateurs rolling in
and chatting with the UK and Stateside hams early morning while f
getting ready for work. And this was with AM (Amplitude modulation)
and often with self built rigs. A few years later 20 m was dead.
(Sunspot cycle!).
Also operating at 5 megahertz military reserve frequency we sometimes
could transmit/receive hundreds of miles but not 40 miles to another
unit. It's radio!
Have fun.

Ian Jackson wrote:
Agreed. Unless there are any hills in the way, legal 27MHz CB should get
you a reliable 5 to 10 miles and, in the USA, I believe is a lot more
popular than elsewhere, and you could well be within range of other CB
users.

From what I have read it is very popular in the EU which has far less
limitations on what you can do with it. There seems to be no practical
limitation on equipment and power, I often see articles about people
using 100 watt ham rigs, transmitting FM and packet data.

However, that's almost irrelevant, a 5 watt rig, even a 1970' handheld
with channels 9,14 and 19 will do, a 40 channel ssb rig would almost be
too much.

To keep it almost on topic, if you were to buy a long whip antenna, fold it
over, (run it horizontaly), and connect it to an autotuner, you could use it
for CB and NVIS ham communication.

NVIS is an interesting mode of communication, it uses vertical skywaves to
get wider range local communication from HF radio.

It may all be a moot point anyway. If you join a club they will probably tell
you what equipment you need. They probably standardized on something readily
available without a license such as CB's, FRS or GMRS, or possibly if they
thought no one would notice VHF marine radios (which are illegal to use
on land, but required for almost anything that floats).

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM