Hey OM:

Take a 60db gain dish illuminate that with 20 milliwatts of power.
Your ERP is now 20,000 watts.

My question raises the bar, how can you focus 20 milliwatts of EM
particles and waves, to end up with 20,000 watts of EM particles and
waves? And I can bet that it's all those extra particles that are
going to be cooking my turkey.

There's only one way that can happen: the dish is a storage device:
the size and frequency of which determine the storage capacity in this
case the storage capacity gives me a 60db gain. And will always give
you 60db more than you put in.

73 OM

de n8zu

It comes from "focusing" the existing energy. No new energy is created.

Yes, you *could* do that with a turkey. Just like you *could* cook it
with a magnifying glass out in the sun.

-Bill

On Oct 15, 3:02*pm, raypsi wrote:
Hey OM:

Take a 60db gain dish illuminate that with *20 milliwatts of power.
Your ERP is now 20,000 watts.

My question raises the bar, how can you focus 20 milliwatts of EM
particles and waves, to end up with 20,000 watts of EM particles and
waves? And I can bet that it's all those extra particles that are
going to be cooking my turkey.

There's only one way that can happen: the dish is a storage device:
the size and frequency of which determine the storage capacity in this
case the storage capacity gives me a 60db gain. And will always give
you 60db more than you put in.

73 OM

de n8zu


60db in one specific direction more than if same amount of RF was
dissipated equally in all directions. Correct?
Would not matter if starting with one milliwatt, one watt, one
megawatt.
The beaming effect will concentrate the available energy from all
directions in a specific one.

raypsi writes:

Hey OM:

Take a 60db gain dish illuminate that with 20 milliwatts of power.
Your ERP is now 20,000 watts.

EIRP, actually ... Radiated power, relative to a (abstract) isotropic
radiator.

My question raises the bar, how can you focus 20 milliwatts of EM
particles and waves, to end up with 20,000 watts of EM particles and
waves?

You can't. You're just focusing that 20 mW of power in the "useful
direction"

Imagine an incandescent light bulb hanging from a wire -- this is a
reasonable metaphor for an isotropic radiator - it puts out (nearly) the
same amount of light in all directions ... If the light isn't bright
enough to read a book, you might put a reflector behind it - there is no
more light being generated, but the page just got brighter, because some
of the energy that was illuminating the garage roof, your head, the
walls and the junk on the shelves is now illuminating the page.

And I can bet that it's all those extra particles that are
going to be cooking my turkey.

There are no particles, and there are no "extra" particles.

de n8zu

It comes from "focusing" the existing energy. No new energy is created.

Yes, you *could* do that with a turkey. Just like you *could* cook it
with a magnifying glass out in the sun.

Indeed - first you heat one molecule of water, then refocus the beam,
heat the next, repeat 6 x 10**23 times for each mole of turkey.


-Bill

Hey OM

What you are saying is that I can take a 20 mW emitter and with an
infinite size dish I can get infinite power from a 20 mW emitter?

No way you can get infinite power from a 20 mW source unless the dish
is supplying the extra power. In other words it's not possible to get
infinite power focused from a 20 mW source, and that all that power is
coming from the 20 mW emitter.

Take that 20 mW emitters' isotropic pattern, there is a potential of
an infinite amount of power in that pattern because it can be
focused?

Frying that turkey only takes 20 mW of total power period. And it may
or may not be from focusing the 20 mW. The turkey gets cooked with 20
mW is still a fact that can't be refutted.

73 OM
de n8zu




You can't. *You're just focusing that 20 mW of power in the "useful
direction" *




-Bill- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

raypsi wrote:
Hey OM

What you are saying is that I can take a 20 mW emitter and with an
infinite size dish I can get infinite power from a 20 mW emitter?

You can get infinite *Effective Isotropic Radiated Power* from 20 mW
with an infinite dish. Not practical, but theoretically correct.

You're misunderstanding EIRP, Effective Isotropic Radiated Power. If
you feed a 60 dB parabolic antenna with 20 mW you get the equivalent of
feeding a theoretical *isotropic* radiator with 20 kW, the key word
being 'isotropic,' meaning that 20 kW is being radiated in all
directions. Your 60 dB dish directs your 20 mW *in a specific
direction* with a *specific* beam width. *In that beam* the field
strength is the same as it would be from 20 kW *going in every
direction*. The ratio of every direction to your dish's beam width is
60 dB.

No way you can get infinite power from a 20 mW source unless the dish
is supplying the extra power. In other words it's not possible to get
infinite power focused from a 20 mW source, and that all that power is
coming from the 20 mW emitter.

You're not getting infinite power, you're getting 20 mW focused into a
finite beam width and in that beam width it has the same field strength
that 20 kW going in all directions would give you.

Take that 20 mW emitters' isotropic pattern, there is a potential of
an infinite amount of power in that pattern because it can be
focused?

Only if it can be focused into an infinitely small point which you won't
get from any finite gain antenna.

Frying that turkey only takes 20 mW of total power period. And it may
or may not be from focusing the 20 mW. The turkey gets cooked with 20
mW is still a fact that can't be refutted.

Part of that fact is it will take a long, long time to cook it with only
20 mW because you can only cook (defined as raising the temperature to
about 160 F) a very, very small portion of the turkey at a time with
only 20 mW.

- W8LNA



73 OM
de n8zu




You can't. You're just focusing that 20 mW of power in the "useful
direction"


-Bill- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -