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  #21   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 06:21 PM
Michael Black
 
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"Ralph Mowery" ) writes:

Aluminum is usually easier for most to work with with simple hand tools.
Steel is fine but it might rust and look bad after a while. Make the
chassie out of whatever kind of metel that you think is the best for you to
work with . Electrically there will be little if any differance.


And of course, everyone did use steel (once things progressed beyond
wood and bakelite chassis) right up until aluminum because readily
available and/or cheap enough, at which point I doubt anyone used
steel except if what they were building was really really heavy, ie
a kilowatt modulator or final.

Michael VE2BVW


  #22   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 06:37 PM
Michael Black
 
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John Bartley ) writes:
I'm not sure how to do the tubes in a DB format, but everything else
should be straightforward.

I'm not sure it completely translates to tubes, since "dead bug" seems
to suggest everything mounted on one side of the circuit board.

But people did take advantage of copper circuit board in tube circuits.
Invert the chassis, and use it merely to protect the circuitry.

Sometimes the tubes were mounted with a bracket (made of more circuit board,
and even soldered to the main board) on the copper side of the
board, the most obvious times were when the tubes were Nuvistors, but the
scheme was used sometimes when compact construction was desired. But usually,
the tube sockets were mounted in holes in the circuit board, and if aluminum
is easier than steel to work with, copper circuit board is even easier.

Once the tube sockets were in place, then everything would be wired up
as usual, with the difference being that it was really easy to drill a
hole for a coil, and every time a ground point was needed, it was a simple
matter of soldering the lead to the copper circuit board. No high wattage
iron or gun is needed, since the copper isn't really thick. If you need
to change things, it's relatively easy to disconnect that ground point,
and unlike with old methods, you don't have an extra hole if you do change
it. Leads could be short, because you could make ground connections where
they were needed rather than where there was a ground lug.

Because of the tube sockets, this tended to be a bit more formal than with
solid state devices, but it was still a neat way to build, and some of the
most busy builders used it because they were always trying to improve things.

Frank Jones did a lot of this sort of thing, at least after Nuvistors came
along. Even before that, many of his converter projects were built on an
inverted chassis, with a piece of aluminum for mounting the parts rather than
circuit board.

Bill Hoisington K1CLL wrote tons of articles in the sixties ane early
seventies, and pretty much everything was build on circuit board. He was
not concerned with looks, and the few times there were photographs, they
did look very "dead bug" like. He even built an amplifier with a 4CX250
or such on copper circuit board.

Michael VE2BVW


  #23   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 06:37 PM
Michael Black
 
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John Bartley ) writes:
I'm not sure how to do the tubes in a DB format, but everything else
should be straightforward.

I'm not sure it completely translates to tubes, since "dead bug" seems
to suggest everything mounted on one side of the circuit board.

But people did take advantage of copper circuit board in tube circuits.
Invert the chassis, and use it merely to protect the circuitry.

Sometimes the tubes were mounted with a bracket (made of more circuit board,
and even soldered to the main board) on the copper side of the
board, the most obvious times were when the tubes were Nuvistors, but the
scheme was used sometimes when compact construction was desired. But usually,
the tube sockets were mounted in holes in the circuit board, and if aluminum
is easier than steel to work with, copper circuit board is even easier.

Once the tube sockets were in place, then everything would be wired up
as usual, with the difference being that it was really easy to drill a
hole for a coil, and every time a ground point was needed, it was a simple
matter of soldering the lead to the copper circuit board. No high wattage
iron or gun is needed, since the copper isn't really thick. If you need
to change things, it's relatively easy to disconnect that ground point,
and unlike with old methods, you don't have an extra hole if you do change
it. Leads could be short, because you could make ground connections where
they were needed rather than where there was a ground lug.

Because of the tube sockets, this tended to be a bit more formal than with
solid state devices, but it was still a neat way to build, and some of the
most busy builders used it because they were always trying to improve things.

Frank Jones did a lot of this sort of thing, at least after Nuvistors came
along. Even before that, many of his converter projects were built on an
inverted chassis, with a piece of aluminum for mounting the parts rather than
circuit board.

Bill Hoisington K1CLL wrote tons of articles in the sixties ane early
seventies, and pretty much everything was build on circuit board. He was
not concerned with looks, and the few times there were photographs, they
did look very "dead bug" like. He even built an amplifier with a 4CX250
or such on copper circuit board.

Michael VE2BVW


  #24   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 06:38 PM
David Forsyth
 
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Wow this is some really great info! Thanks Jim and to all others who took
the time to respond!

On a side note - I was trying to join the "Glowbugs" mailing list that I've
seen mentioned on a number of web sites, but I havent gotten any responses
to my to "subscribe" emails. Is this a dead list? If so, are there any
similar current alternatives?

On a second side note - does anyone happen to know what the formula would be
to calculate the capacitance between two metal plates of a given area and
given spacing, having an air dielectric?

thanks again to all!



Dave



"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , David Forsyth says...

Anyone
have any further ideas or insights?


Steel is cheap. This is one reason that
one of the most famous two-tube (+ 1 audio)
regenerative receivers - the national SW3 - was
manufactured with a steel chassis, and a
steel enclosure.

Aluminum is easier to work with obviously.

As a practical matter, I would try to keep
your coils at least one coil diameter away
from the metal chassis, steel or aluminum.

In the SW3 they did this by putting the coils
right in the center of the shield compartmets,
and by standing the coil sockets up on standoffs.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================



  #25   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 06:38 PM
David Forsyth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wow this is some really great info! Thanks Jim and to all others who took
the time to respond!

On a side note - I was trying to join the "Glowbugs" mailing list that I've
seen mentioned on a number of web sites, but I havent gotten any responses
to my to "subscribe" emails. Is this a dead list? If so, are there any
similar current alternatives?

On a second side note - does anyone happen to know what the formula would be
to calculate the capacitance between two metal plates of a given area and
given spacing, having an air dielectric?

thanks again to all!



Dave



"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , David Forsyth says...

Anyone
have any further ideas or insights?


Steel is cheap. This is one reason that
one of the most famous two-tube (+ 1 audio)
regenerative receivers - the national SW3 - was
manufactured with a steel chassis, and a
steel enclosure.

Aluminum is easier to work with obviously.

As a practical matter, I would try to keep
your coils at least one coil diameter away
from the metal chassis, steel or aluminum.

In the SW3 they did this by putting the coils
right in the center of the shield compartmets,
and by standing the coil sockets up on standoffs.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================





  #26   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 06:43 PM
Howard Eisenhauer
 
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:59:57 -0400, John Bartley wrote:

David Forsyth wrote:
The "dead bug" way? I'm not sure what this means - please forgive me I'm
new to this :-)


Hehe, don't feel too bad. I have zero experience with solid state stuff,
so when I was told to build my trial projects in DBSF format, I was left
scratching my head. I laughed out loud when I was shown a "Dead Bug
Squashed Flat" project. This is your components laid out flat on a
perfboard and the wires run straight, point to point. It really does
look like a DBSF!!

I'm not sure how to do the tubes in a DB format, but everything else
should be straightforward.

"General Radio" used to sell tube sockets which were surface mount with
side terminals. I've looked high and low for some of these, but haven't
had any luck. They'd be ideal for breadboard tube projects.

cheers



Omron has surface mount sockets for thier line of relays, can't
remember if they're 8 or 11 pin though. Check it out, you might get
lucky .
  #27   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 06:43 PM
Howard Eisenhauer
 
Posts: n/a
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:59:57 -0400, John Bartley wrote:

David Forsyth wrote:
The "dead bug" way? I'm not sure what this means - please forgive me I'm
new to this :-)


Hehe, don't feel too bad. I have zero experience with solid state stuff,
so when I was told to build my trial projects in DBSF format, I was left
scratching my head. I laughed out loud when I was shown a "Dead Bug
Squashed Flat" project. This is your components laid out flat on a
perfboard and the wires run straight, point to point. It really does
look like a DBSF!!

I'm not sure how to do the tubes in a DB format, but everything else
should be straightforward.

"General Radio" used to sell tube sockets which were surface mount with
side terminals. I've looked high and low for some of these, but haven't
had any luck. They'd be ideal for breadboard tube projects.

cheers



Omron has surface mount sockets for thier line of relays, can't
remember if they're 8 or 11 pin though. Check it out, you might get
lucky .
  #28   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 07:38 PM
Bob Lewis \(AA4PB\)
 
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Only one problem I ever had with a steel chassis was a project that
used a rather sizable power transformer. The transformer induced
currents into the steel chassis that caused metering problems. It was
corrected by using a single-point ground to the chassis.

Steel chassis were the norm for much of the tube years, commercial and
amateur.


  #29   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 07:38 PM
Bob Lewis \(AA4PB\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Only one problem I ever had with a steel chassis was a project that
used a rather sizable power transformer. The transformer induced
currents into the steel chassis that caused metering problems. It was
corrected by using a single-point ground to the chassis.

Steel chassis were the norm for much of the tube years, commercial and
amateur.


  #30   Report Post  
Old October 19th 03, 09:00 PM
John Bartley
 
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W7TI wrote:

If you're using octal type tubes, there are sockets made for industrial
relays which fit the tubes perfectly. They are as you describe; surface
mount with side terminals. They no doubt add a small amount of
inductance and capacitance which could affect VHF operation, something
to keep in mind. McMaster-Carr has them on page 819 of their online
catalog:

http://www.mcmaster.com/


Very nicely done!!! Thank you. These are the ideal thing for an
experimenter.

--
regards from ::
John Bartley
43 Norway Spruce Street
Stittsville, Ontario
Canada, K2S1P5
( If you slow down it takes longer - does that apply to life also?)



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