Last month I went to Palm springs for the Faire, and there was no
noticeable difference in the numbers of windmills in operation.
=====================
Having seen these machines near Palm Springs ,they seem to be rather small
and of an older design.
Modern machines are much bigger (up to 2 MW rated capacity) and more
reliable.
In the Netherlands they are now planning a number of 2MW machines offshore
,approx 8 kms off the coast placed on seabed based stuctures.
Their designers are focussing on minimum maintenance ( only once every 3
years) .

To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated
capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage /
maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have
them on their land ,especially
in the northern provinces.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Highland Ham wrote...

Having seen these machines near Palm Springs, they seem to be
rather small and of an older design.

I wonder if they shouldn't be replaced, that's prime wind territory.

In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land, especially
in the northern provinces.

Do they rent the space to the wind-generator owners, or do they each
install and maintain them themselves? Is there a subsidized rate for
the sale of electricity to the grid?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Winfield Hill wrote:

Highland Ham wrote...

Having seen these machines near Palm Springs, they seem to be
rather small and of an older design.


I wonder if they shouldn't be replaced, that's prime wind territory.

Well, you know that the coops or companies that built them had to invest
heavily and borrow money to finance their construction. What makes you
think they can just tear down the old ones before they've paid off their
loans, and borrow even more heavily to finance new ones??

In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land, especially
in the northern provinces.

Do they rent the space to the wind-generator owners, or do they each
install and maintain them themselves? Is there a subsidized rate for
the sale of electricity to the grid?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Winfield Hill wrote:

Highland Ham wrote...

Having seen these machines near Palm Springs, they seem to be
rather small and of an older design.


I wonder if they shouldn't be replaced, that's prime wind territory.

Well, you know that the coops or companies that built them had to invest
heavily and borrow money to finance their construction. What makes you
think they can just tear down the old ones before they've paid off their
loans, and borrow even more heavily to finance new ones??

In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land, especially
in the northern provinces.

Do they rent the space to the wind-generator owners, or do they each
install and maintain them themselves? Is there a subsidized rate for
the sale of electricity to the grid?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Highland Ham wrote...

Having seen these machines near Palm Springs, they seem to be
rather small and of an older design.

I wonder if they shouldn't be replaced, that's prime wind territory.

In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land, especially
in the northern provinces.

Do they rent the space to the wind-generator owners, or do they each
install and maintain them themselves? Is there a subsidized rate for
the sale of electricity to the grid?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Highland Ham wrote:
Last month I went to Palm springs for the Faire, and there was no
noticeable difference in the numbers of windmills in operation.

=====================
Having seen these machines near Palm Springs ,they seem to be rather small
and of an older design.

Rather small?!!!! You call 350kW or more with blades 150 Feet (45m)
long *SMALL*????

Modern machines are much bigger (up to 2 MW rated capacity) and more
reliable.

Even bigger!

In the Netherlands they are now planning a number of 2MW machines offshore
,approx 8 kms off the coast placed on seabed based stuctures.
Their designers are focussing on minimum maintenance ( only once every 3
years) .

To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated
capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage /
maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have
them on their land ,especially
in the northern provinces.

I'd like to know what has to be done to get the generated power back
into the grid.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Highland Ham wrote:
Last month I went to Palm springs for the Faire, and there was no
noticeable difference in the numbers of windmills in operation.

=====================
Having seen these machines near Palm Springs ,they seem to be rather small
and of an older design.

Rather small?!!!! You call 350kW or more with blades 150 Feet (45m)
long *SMALL*????

Modern machines are much bigger (up to 2 MW rated capacity) and more
reliable.

Even bigger!

In the Netherlands they are now planning a number of 2MW machines offshore
,approx 8 kms off the coast placed on seabed based stuctures.
Their designers are focussing on minimum maintenance ( only once every 3
years) .

To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated
capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage /
maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have
them on their land ,especially
in the northern provinces.

I'd like to know what has to be done to get the generated power back
into the grid.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:11:09 +0100, "Highland Ham"
wrote:


To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated
capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage /
maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have
them on their land ,especially
in the northern provinces.

Those 16 % rated capacity figures seems to be quite low, since usually
20-30 % is quoted for land based windmills near the coast over here.
Of course, if you use a too big generator for a particular place and
wing size, the percentage will go down.

If you use a smaller generator with the same turbine and same
location, the percentage will go up, however, during stronger winds
you can only utilise the amount of power as the generator is rated for
and some of the wind energy is "lost" during stronger winds compared
to a larger generator.

During system design, you can select the percentage by selecting the
generator size. The generator cost compared to the other costs of the
windmill will determine the most economical generator size and thus
also this percentage.

Paul OH3LWR

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:11:09 +0100, "Highland Ham"
wrote:


To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated
capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage /
maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have
them on their land ,especially
in the northern provinces.

Those 16 % rated capacity figures seems to be quite low, since usually
20-30 % is quoted for land based windmills near the coast over here.
Of course, if you use a too big generator for a particular place and
wing size, the percentage will go down.

If you use a smaller generator with the same turbine and same
location, the percentage will go up, however, during stronger winds
you can only utilise the amount of power as the generator is rated for
and some of the wind energy is "lost" during stronger winds compared
to a larger generator.

During system design, you can select the percentage by selecting the
generator size. The generator cost compared to the other costs of the
windmill will determine the most economical generator size and thus
also this percentage.

Paul OH3LWR