On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:38:08 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:56:34 GMT, (Don
Pearce) wrote:

You don't get billed for current, you get billed for energy - in the
UK the measure is the kilowatt hour.

Hey, whose side are you on? ;-)

Multiply your voltage by your
current instant by instant, take the average (gives you power) and
multiply that by the duration in hours and you have your consumption.

They don't bill me instant-by-instant; they bill me for the power they
claim I've used over the course of a three-monthly period. Since power
is the product of voltage and current (and I've proved earlier that
both are zero) I'm being charged for electricity that I've not
actually used. The current goes in and out of the house unchanged.
It's all returned to the power company. All I've done is borrow it.
And you can bet that when they get their current back they don't just
dump it to ground; oh no. They re-sell it again and again and again to
other suckers like me. We're all paying multiple sums for the *same*
lousy current that's probably been circulating for years.
The power companies have been scamming us for decades! I can't believe
I've only just woken up to it.

Aww c'mon - if you multiply a positive voltage by a positive current
you get positive power. If you multiply negative voltage by negative
current you get positive power.

Anyway - are you cleaning and refurbishing those amps before you give
them back? They wear out, you know.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Paul Burridge schrieb:

The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

Because free energy is against one of the laws of thermodynamics - can't
remember which...
As everybody knows, you get fined for doing illegal things ;)
That's what your power company is doing.

Regards
Markus

Bob Stephens schrieb:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote:


The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?


What you want to do is take an extension cord, plug it into an outlet on
one side of the house, and plug the other end into an outlet on the other
side (carefully observing polarity), thereby sending their own electricity
back to them, running the wattmeter backwards and nulling out any billable
KWH.


Bob

BTW, just in case, this is a *JOKE*, and it wasn't me telling it.

It might just work if you plug it into your neighbour's house...

Markus

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:48:00 GMT, (Don
Pearce) wrote:

Aww c'mon - if you multiply a positive voltage by a positive current
you get positive power. If you multiply negative voltage by negative
current you get positive power.

Sorry, Don, you obviously haven't thought this through. Since *all*
their current is returned, I cannot have used *any* of it. Whatever
the voltage might be, multiplying it by zero Amps still gives zero
power!

Anyway - are you cleaning and refurbishing those amps before you give
them back?

Why should I? That's *their* job. I pay enough!

They wear out, you know.

You mean they like lose their charge after a while? That would make
sense as I've found as years have gone by, I've had to turn the
heating up more and more. The thieving *******s!


--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

On 12 Nov 2004 16:34:12 GMT, (Troglodite) wrote:

The way it was explained to me, the electric company sends you the stuff on one
wire, but it goes right back to them on the other wire. You should only be
paying a small rental fee, as you don't get to keep any of it, and they keep
re-selling the same electricity back to you and everyone else.

Doug Moore KB9TMY

Thanks, Doug. I'm glad *someone* here has some sense!
And another thing: many of us here in Britland use earthed neutrals,
so the power co. gets it's current back via earth alone. I don't mind
my own current being returned via my own garden, but why the hell
should everybody else's' current pass through my land en route back to
the power station? If the telephone company wanted to run a line over
my property, they'd have to pay me for the privilege (it's called a
"wayleave") but the power co. are paying me *nothing* for all the
other customers' earth returns running via my garden. What a rip off!

--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:09:35 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote:


Sorry, Don, you obviously haven't thought this through. Since *all*
their current is returned, I cannot have used *any* of it. Whatever
the voltage might be, multiplying it by zero Amps still gives zero
power!

---
That's not how they do it.

Since they know that they'll get back every bit of current they send
you, they keep track of what they send you for three months, normalize
it to 1 and call it "a", call what you send them back "b", and then do
the followwing maths:

normalize a:
a = 1

set b = a:
a = b

multiply both sides by a:
a² = ab

subtract b² from both sides:
a² - b² = ab - b²

factor both sides:
(a + b)(a - b) = b (a - b)

divide both sides by (a - b):
(a + b)(a - b) = b (a - b)
-------------- -----------
(a - b) (a - b)

remove terms which cancel ((a -b)) from both sides:
a + b = b

convert:
1 + 1 = 1

So, you can see that the sum of the amount they sent you and the
amount they received back _has_ to be the same as the amount they sent
you, and that's what they bill you for.

--
John Fields

Paul Burridge wrote:
The power company run a line to my house.

Hey, maybe I can make the same argument to my water/sewage provider???

--
Luhan Monat: luhanis(at)yahoo(dot)com
http://members.cox.net/berniekm
"The Future is not what it used to be..."

In article ,
Paul Burridge wrote:

I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

Because your a Dufus, and you deserve to PAY.......


Me

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:57:27 -0700, Luhan Monat wrote:

Paul Burridge wrote:
The power company run a line to my house.

Hey, maybe I can make the same argument to my water/sewage provider???

Certainly. If your "out pipe" is the same diameter as your "in pipe."
;-

--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote:

The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

Please forgive my naivete, but this is a joke, right?

Thanks,
Rich