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Why do I get electricity bills? (another thought-provoking metaphysical conundrum)
The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? -- "What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793. |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote: The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? You don't get billed for current, you get billed for energy - in the UK the measure is the kilowatt hour. Multiply your voltage by your current instant by instant, take the average (gives you power) and multiply that by the duration in hours and you have your consumption. NIce try, though... d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, the renowned Paul Burridge
wrote: The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. No, you don't use hardly any leakage current to earth (RCD), and you don't use more than the maximum trip current between lines (MCB). An RCBO is an MCB + RCD, to use the Brit terms. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. But the RMS value is 230VAC. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? Why don't you ring up the power company engineers and see if you can get them to see things your way? Could save a lot of money. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
"Paul Burridge" wrote in message ... The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? There is a minimum charge, regardless of energy usage. Bill W0IYH |
"News" wrote in message ... "Paul Burridge" wrote in message ... The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? There is a minimum charge, regardless of energy usage. Bill W0IYH |
test again
Bill W0IYH "News" wrote in message ... "News" wrote in message ... "Paul Burridge" wrote in message ... The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? There is a minimum charge, regardless of energy usage. Bill W0IYH |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote: The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? --- For a purely resistive load, since P = I²R, the sign of the current going into the load gets squared, so that when it goes in negative it comes out positive. For a reactive load, you don't get charged for the imaginary current, (at least in the US we don't) so you get charged for what you use. -- John Fields |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote:
The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? What you want to do is take an extension cord, plug it into an outlet on one side of the house, and plug the other end into an outlet on the other side (carefully observing polarity), thereby sending their own electricity back to them, running the wattmeter backwards and nulling out any billable KWH. Bob BTW, just in case, this is a *JOKE*, and it wasn't me telling it. |
Quite right. Call the electric company and tell them you want only
half-cycles starting immediately. If they persist in sending you an average of zero, you will start paying your bill with a combination of payment and charge back. That should straighten them out. The way it was explained to me, the electric company sends you the stuff on one wire, but it goes right back to them on the other wire. You should only be paying a small rental fee, as you don't get to keep any of it, and they keep re-selling the same electricity back to you and everyone else. Doug Moore KB9TMY |
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Paul Burridge schrieb:
The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? Because free energy is against one of the laws of thermodynamics - can't remember which... As everybody knows, you get fined for doing illegal things ;) That's what your power company is doing. Regards Markus |
Bob Stephens schrieb:
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote: The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? What you want to do is take an extension cord, plug it into an outlet on one side of the house, and plug the other end into an outlet on the other side (carefully observing polarity), thereby sending their own electricity back to them, running the wattmeter backwards and nulling out any billable KWH. Bob BTW, just in case, this is a *JOKE*, and it wasn't me telling it. It might just work if you plug it into your neighbour's house... Markus |
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:09:35 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote: Sorry, Don, you obviously haven't thought this through. Since *all* their current is returned, I cannot have used *any* of it. Whatever the voltage might be, multiplying it by zero Amps still gives zero power! --- That's not how they do it. Since they know that they'll get back every bit of current they send you, they keep track of what they send you for three months, normalize it to 1 and call it "a", call what you send them back "b", and then do the followwing maths: normalize a: a = 1 set b = a: a = b multiply both sides by a: a² = ab subtract b² from both sides: a² - b² = ab - b² factor both sides: (a + b)(a - b) = b (a - b) divide both sides by (a - b): (a + b)(a - b) = b (a - b) -------------- ----------- (a - b) (a - b) remove terms which cancel ((a -b)) from both sides: a + b = b convert: 1 + 1 = 1 So, you can see that the sum of the amount they sent you and the amount they received back _has_ to be the same as the amount they sent you, and that's what they bill you for. -- John Fields |
Paul Burridge wrote:
The power company run a line to my house. Hey, maybe I can make the same argument to my water/sewage provider??? -- Luhan Monat: luhanis(at)yahoo(dot)com http://members.cox.net/berniekm "The Future is not what it used to be..." |
In article ,
Paul Burridge wrote: I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? Because your a Dufus, and you deserve to PAY....... Me |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:57:27 -0700, Luhan Monat wrote:
Paul Burridge wrote: The power company run a line to my house. Hey, maybe I can make the same argument to my water/sewage provider??? Certainly. If your "out pipe" is the same diameter as your "in pipe." ;- -- "What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793. |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote:
The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? Please forgive my naivete, but this is a joke, right? Thanks, Rich |
In article , Paul Burridge
writes: I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? Simple. Electrons come into your house (supplied by the utility) and then they go back out. You don't buy them - you just pay rent for the time you have them. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
In article ,
N2EY wrote: I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? Simple. Electrons come into your house (supplied by the utility) and then they go back out. You don't buy them - you just pay rent for the time you have them. Well, you have 'em in your house whether they're being pumped around, or not. It's more like a turnpike - you pay for the amount of distance driven, times the number of vehicles that you drive. Doesn't matter whether you're driving north, south, or north-and-then-south again. You drive, you burn gas, you pay the toll. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
Paul Burridge wrote:
On 12 Nov 2004 16:34:12 GMT, (Troglodite) wrote: The way it was explained to me, the electric company sends you the stuff on one wire, but it goes right back to them on the other wire. You should only be paying a small rental fee, as you don't get to keep any of it, and they keep re-selling the same electricity back to you and everyone else. Doug Moore KB9TMY Thanks, Doug. I'm glad *someone* here has some sense! And another thing: many of us here in Britland use earthed neutrals, so the power co. gets it's current back via earth alone. I don't mind my own current being returned via my own garden, but why the hell should everybody else's' current pass through my land en route back to the power station? If the telephone company wanted to run a line over my property, they'd have to pay me for the privilege (it's called a "wayleave") but the power co. are paying me *nothing* for all the other customers' earth returns running via my garden. What a rip off! Paul; You could drive ground rods into opposite corners of your property and extract some of the power from the earth and run your house for nothing at all! In fact If you dig a deep enough trench in the middle, you could isolate the ground and get a bigger return current! -- Joe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY" The Lost Deep Thoughts By: Jack Handey Before a mad scientist goes mad, there's probably a time when he's only partially mad. And this is the time when he's going to throw his best parties. |
Paul Burridge wrote in message . ..
The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. Two things flow along wires: charge and energy. The energy flows fast, while the charges flow slowly. The charges flow in a complete circle (you don't use any up,) while the energy is absorbed by your appliances. OK, here's the big question: which one is the electricity? If an electric current is a flow of electricity, then "electricity" is not energy, and the utility companies neither produce nor sell any electricity. It all depends on how we define the word "electricity." And unfortunately the reference books don't agree with each other. Some books follow the scientists of old, and define electricity as charge (so a quantity of electricity is measured in coulombs, and a flow of electricity is measured in amperes.) Other reference books ignore that definition, and instead they insist that electricity is energy... so a flow of electricity is measured in watts, not amps. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? The path for electric current is CIRCULAR. For every bit of charge that the electric companies force into your appliances, an equal amount of charge goes back out through the other wire. The current is also oscillating (the charges don't actually flow, instead they vibrate back and forth over extremely tiny distances.) On the other hand, the path for electrical energy is one way. The electric companies send electromagnetic energy over enormous distances. It's this energy which your appliances consume. Unfortunately for our definition of "electricity," this energy is composed of electric and magnetic fields, and it travels in the space surrounding the wires. Do we really want to state that electricity is made of EM fields? Do we really want to say that no electricity travels inside of wires, but instead it travels in the space outside? If we say that electricity is a form of energy, that's the same as saying that electricity is just some travelling waves of electromagnetic field. Possible solution: never use the word electricity at all. If you want to say that electrical energy flows along a circuit, then say exactly that. If you want to talk about flows of charge, then speak of charge and not "electricity." As long as we never mention the word "electricity," then amperes and watts are no longer mistaken for each other, and we can get on with explaining the joules and coulombs in ways that make sense. |
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:09:35 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:48:00 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote: Aww c'mon - if you multiply a positive voltage by a positive current you get positive power. If you multiply negative voltage by negative current you get positive power. Sorry, Don, you obviously haven't thought this through. Since *all* their current is returned, I cannot have used *any* of it. Whatever the voltage might be, multiplying it by zero Amps still gives zero power! Paul, perhaps you should be a politician... What you are charged for is the use of the current as it flows through your appliances etc. Because the current flows in your appliances it places a load on their generating plant. Because millions of houses are also doing the same thing at the same time the load on the generating plant is enormous and in order to supply the large amount of current required by all users (yes, even though they do get it back in the return feed), the generating plant has to be enormous itself. Now, power stations aren't something you pick off a tree, they have to be built and maintained and they consume "energy" in order to be able to generate the large amount of current which flows. Now even a dill can see that the cost of building and running the plant has to be paid for and the cost of doing this is usually amortised over a period of 15 or 20 years and after that it is pure profit. So you are paying for the current which flows through your systems to generate heat, cool and cook your food, run your stereo etc, etc. Now despite your fallacious arguments about supply voltage summing to zero and the supply authority getting all their current back after having gone through your house, you can't argue that you shouldn't be charged purely for no other reason than the law stating the conservation of energy. "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but may only be changed from one form to another." The supply authority is changing one form of energy to another in order to generate electrical energy and you are changing the energy they supply into other forms required to generate heat, cooling etc in your household. I can tell you this, converting energy from one form to another doesn't come free and not even a politician would be stupid enough to believe that it does. Anyway - are you cleaning and refurbishing those amps before you give them back? Why should I? That's *their* job. I pay enough! They wear out, you know. You mean they like lose their charge after a while? That would make sense as I've found as years have gone by, I've had to turn the heating up more and more. The thieving *******s! |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:57:13 -0600, John Fields
wrote: For a purely resistive load, since P = I²R, the sign of the current going into the load gets squared, so that when it goes in negative it comes out positive. Seems like there's an opportunity for free energy kooks there. Put positive and negative current in alternately, averaging zero, but get all positive power. :-) |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:09:35 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote: What you are charged for is the use of the current as it flows through your appliances etc. You are not charged for using it. You are charged for BORROWING it. Ian. -- |
Ian Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:09:35 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote: What you are charged for is the use of the current as it flows through your appliances etc. You are not charged for using it. You are charged for BORROWING it. Ian. Yes, there's an extra fee if you keep any half cycles without returning them on the following half cycles. It's called the Semi-Unused Cycle Kinetic Electricity Return fee. Roy Lewallen, W7EL |
In rec.radio.amateur.homebrew Roy Lewallen wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:09:35 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote: What you are charged for is the use of the current as it flows through your appliances etc. You are not charged for using it. You are charged for BORROWING it. Ian. Yes, there's an extra fee if you keep any half cycles without returning them on the following half cycles. It's called the Semi-Unused Cycle Kinetic Electricity Return fee. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Be thankful that you have ac power coming to your home. Back in my days in the old country, I used to walk 5 miles through snow and sludge in the middle of winter to go to the next village to buy a couple of batteries so that my father can listen to his nightly stories on our wireless. :P -- Alf Beta. |
Huh? It's only 5:30AM here and I just got up but, the ONLY time you
aren't consuming power is at the zero crossing of the voltage and current sine waves (assuming a purely resistive load where I and E are in phase). Since you are paying for power, which is P=I X E, during the negative half cycle, you have, for example, -168 Volts X -1 Amp = +168 Watts...try it on a calculator...negative times a negative is positive. Scott Paul Burridge wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:56:34 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote: You don't get billed for current, you get billed for energy - in the UK the measure is the kilowatt hour. Hey, whose side are you on? ;-) Multiply your voltage by your current instant by instant, take the average (gives you power) and multiply that by the duration in hours and you have your consumption. They don't bill me instant-by-instant; they bill me for the power they claim I've used over the course of a three-monthly period. Since power is the product of voltage and current (and I've proved earlier that both are zero) I'm being charged for electricity that I've not actually used. The current goes in and out of the house unchanged. It's all returned to the power company. All I've done is borrow it. And you can bet that when they get their current back they don't just dump it to ground; oh no. They re-sell it again and again and again to other suckers like me. We're all paying multiple sums for the *same* lousy current that's probably been circulating for years. The power companies have been scamming us for decades! I can't believe I've only just woken up to it. |
Well, you can look at it this way...It's basically a series circuit,
from generator, through all customer houses, and back to the generator. You may be returning ALMOST all of the current coming into your house, minus resistive losses, but if you divert that voltage and current through one of your appliances, the voltage and current (hence power) will actually be doing some work. Electricity, while being USED in your house, is like an employee of YOURS...it is doing WORK, so legally you must pay the worker's wages for work performed. Just be glad you don't have to pay it's social security taxes, fed and state taxes, health insurance, worker's comp insurance premiums, 401K contributions, etc. Starts to make electricity (employee) sound cheap. Scott Paul Burridge wrote: Sorry, Don, you obviously haven't thought this through. Since *all* their current is returned, I cannot have used *any* of it. Whatever the voltage might be, multiplying it by zero Amps still gives zero power! |
"William J. Beaty" wrote in message om... Paul Burridge wrote in message . .. On the other hand, the path for electrical energy is one way. The electric companies send electromagnetic energy over enormous distances. It's this energy which your appliances consume. Unfortunately for our definition of "electricity," this energy is composed of electric and magnetic fields, and it travels in the space surrounding the wires. Do we really want to state that electricity is made of EM fields? Do we really want to say that no electricity travels inside of wires, but instead it travels in the space outside? If we say that electricity is a form of energy, that's the same as saying that electricity is just some travelling waves of electromagnetic field. Yes please, guided energy!. It seems fathomable and sits easily amongst waveguides, aerials, lightbulbs and triphasic conduit. Electrons have a bit of weight. If you spin a metal disc at the power station fast enough, then all the electrons in it should centrifuge out and crowd towards the outer edge leaving no electrons in the middle. The electrons aren't happy being herded onto the outer rim and really just want to hang out and chew the cud. The potential to do work has thus been stored, just like in a flywheel. Paul switches on his TV and gives them a route back to the disc centre. The stored disc energy is immediately translated in his TV to heat, light and sound as the electrons all work through to become nonentities again. The power station people don't like this as all their patiently herded electrons have escaped, the disc has slowed a tad and they have to raise more steam to maintain speed and herd more electrons. Hence will charge Paul handsomely for his profligacy. Dunno what happens in a spinning capacitor with diode connected plates though :-) regards john |
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:42:11 +0000, Scott
wrote: Huh? It's only 5:30AM here and I just got up but, the ONLY time you aren't consuming power is at the zero crossing of the voltage and current sine waves (assuming a purely resistive load where I and E are in phase). Since you are paying for power, which is P=I X E, during the negative half cycle, you have, for example, -168 Volts X -1 Amp = +168 Watts...try it on a calculator...negative times a negative is positive. Thanks, Scott. So you're basically agreeing with me. I owe the power co. for the positive cycles they send me; they owe *me* for the negative ones. Since they are equal and opposite, they cancel each other out. Overall, then, zero billing justified. We are being conned!!! -- "What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793. |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:37:28 -0500, **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
wrote: Paul; You could drive ground rods into opposite corners of your property and extract some of the power from the earth and run your house for nothing at all! In fact If you dig a deep enough trench in the middle, you could isolate the ground and get a bigger return current! Well, I don't see how that could work, but I had considered digging a trench around my boundary and thereby cutting off the return path for the other users' behind my house and demanding payment from the power co. to re-instate it. But then it's obvious the return current's only going to go deeper underground or around my property. It seems there's nothing I can do to make any dough out of this. :-( -- "What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793. |
Paul Burridge wrote: On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:42:11 +0000, Scott wrote: Huh? It's only 5:30AM here and I just got up but, the ONLY time you aren't consuming power is at the zero crossing of the voltage and current sine waves (assuming a purely resistive load where I and E are in phase). Since you are paying for power, which is P=I X E, during the negative half cycle, you have, for example, -168 Volts X -1 Amp = +168 Watts...try it on a calculator...negative times a negative is positive. Thanks, Scott. So you're basically agreeing with me. I owe the power co. for the positive cycles they send me; they owe *me* for the negative ones. Since they are equal and opposite, they cancel each other out. Overall, then, zero billing justified. We are being conned!!! You might have a case if the ac feed was a single line- but the so-called negative cycle is a relative polarity- they draw current out of your hot connection by supplying it to the neutral. They vector sum of the two currents they deliver is zero at all times- so you pay for them to maintain an undulating line voltage with constant RMS magnitude across your house. |
Paul Burridge wrote: The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution board in a cupboard under the stairs. !!!!! I run all my stuff from that board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't use any current. The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. !!!!! Since this is alternating between equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this voltage supply is zero. I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any? I hope you should know the answer. It involves a square term. Have you tried measuring the voltage. No European countries run on 230V to the best of my knowledge. Graham |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:18:28 GMT, Rich The Philosophizer
wrote: Please forgive my naivete, but this is a joke, right? It's a "thought-provoking metaphysical discussion." Care to participate? ;-) -- "What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793. |
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On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:27:45 +0000, Pooh Bear
wrote: No European countries run on 230V to the best of my knowledge. British mains electricity used to be 240V, until the EU spit! 'harmonised' the level across EUrope to 230V. Unless of course, you know better.... -- "What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793. |
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