Why do I get electricity bills? (another thought-provoking metaphysical conundrum)
 

The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote:

The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

You don't get billed for current, you get billed for energy - in the
UK the measure is the kilowatt hour. Multiply your voltage by your
current instant by instant, take the average (gives you power) and
multiply that by the duration in hours and you have your consumption.

NIce try, though...

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, the renowned Paul Burridge
wrote:

The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.

No, you don't use hardly any leakage current to earth (RCD), and you
don't use more than the maximum trip current between lines (MCB). An
RCBO is an MCB + RCD, to use the Brit terms.

The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.

But the RMS value is 230VAC.

I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

Why don't you ring up the power company engineers and see if you can
get them to see things your way? Could save a lot of money.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Paul Burridge" wrote in message
...
The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

There is a minimum charge, regardless of energy usage.

Bill W0IYH

"News" wrote in message
...

"Paul Burridge" wrote in message
...
The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

There is a minimum charge, regardless of energy usage.

Bill W0IYH

test again

Bill W0IYH


"News" wrote in message
...

"News" wrote in message
...

"Paul Burridge" wrote in message
...
The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

There is a minimum charge, regardless of energy usage.

Bill W0IYH

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote:

The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

---
For a purely resistive load, since P = I²R, the sign of the current
going into the load gets squared, so that when it goes in negative it
comes out positive.

For a reactive load, you don't get charged for the imaginary current,
(at least in the US we don't) so you get charged for what you use.

--
John Fields

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:19 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote:

The power company run a line to my house. They supply me with
electricity. This amounts to a 230V, 65A facility at the distribution
board in a cupboard under the stairs. I run all my stuff from that
board. The board contains several RCBOs that trip-out in the event of
any leakage current being sensed. If current in = current out; they're
happy and won't trip. Because they don't trip out, I conclude I don't
use any current.
The voltage supplied is 230VAC RMS. Since this is alternating between
equal positive and negative half-cycles, the average level of this
voltage supply is zero.
I use no current and they effectively supply no voltage. Why do I get
billed for electricity usage when I clearly can't have used any?

What you want to do is take an extension cord, plug it into an outlet on
one side of the house, and plug the other end into an outlet on the other
side (carefully observing polarity), thereby sending their own electricity
back to them, running the wattmeter backwards and nulling out any billable
KWH.


Bob

BTW, just in case, this is a *JOKE*, and it wasn't me telling it.

Quite right. Call the electric company and tell them you want only
half-cycles starting immediately. If they persist in sending you an
average of zero, you will start paying your bill with a combination of
payment and charge back. That should straighten them out.

The way it was explained to me, the electric company sends you the stuff on one
wire, but it goes right back to them on the other wire. You should only be
paying a small rental fee, as you don't get to keep any of it, and they keep
re-selling the same electricity back to you and everyone else.

Doug Moore KB9TMY

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:56:34 GMT, (Don
Pearce) wrote:

You don't get billed for current, you get billed for energy - in the
UK the measure is the kilowatt hour.

Hey, whose side are you on? ;-)

Multiply your voltage by your
current instant by instant, take the average (gives you power) and
multiply that by the duration in hours and you have your consumption.

They don't bill me instant-by-instant; they bill me for the power they
claim I've used over the course of a three-monthly period. Since power
is the product of voltage and current (and I've proved earlier that
both are zero) I'm being charged for electricity that I've not
actually used. The current goes in and out of the house unchanged.
It's all returned to the power company. All I've done is borrow it.
And you can bet that when they get their current back they don't just
dump it to ground; oh no. They re-sell it again and again and again to
other suckers like me. We're all paying multiple sums for the *same*
lousy current that's probably been circulating for years.
The power companies have been scamming us for decades! I can't believe
I've only just woken up to it.

--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.