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Uses for Old UPSes
I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes.
So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT |
Uses for Old UPSes
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com... I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT If you can get your hands on a copy of the 2005 ARRL Handbook, there are several suggestions in there (radio-related, but you can improvise from them), and some information about UPS's. One is a charger for 12V storage batteries in general, including car batteries. Another is an emergency power supply (you can just run two wires to your car battery, or a bank of deep-discharge batteries wired in parallel if you're so inclined). Depending on the model you have, you can get 160 W to over 300 W of 120 VAC and/or 12VDC from them. Mine (an APC Back-UPS 600) is now wired to an old car battery. It will run my computer for a lot longer than the old gel-cell that came with it. Since we're on the end of a power transmission line, it gets a fair amount of use. -- Ed Huntress |
Uses for Old UPS units
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com... I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT A local college student has a successful business placing new batteries in these units -- checking out and selling on eBay and to a large number of local small companies. I usually pickup the transformers from his junked units (fire, internal damage). This are usually good for 13.8 VDC linear power supplies in the 7 to 25 amp range. gb |
Uses for Old UPSes
Too_Many_Tools wrote: I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT Yep, the power transformers in them - feed the local mains voltage BACK into it, you will get 18v (usually centre tapped) on the other side where the original switching transistors were, nice big thick wire - good for a few amps. As well, lots of other windings, good for what have you voltages. 73 de VK3BFA Andrew |
Uses for Old UPSes
I have a back-UPS 400 with a useless gelcell. However, touching
terminals of a fully charged and healthy gelcell to the battery leads causes mega amps to flow, so something is likely fried. Interestingly, the dead battery has about 10.5 volts on it, in-circuit, no current! Anyone got a schematic or wisdom to share? / thanks / mark Ed Huntress wrote: "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message oups.com... I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT If you can get your hands on a copy of the 2005 ARRL Handbook, there are several suggestions in there (radio-related, but you can improvise from them), and some information about UPS's. One is a charger for 12V storage batteries in general, including car batteries. Another is an emergency power supply (you can just run two wires to your car battery, or a bank of deep-discharge batteries wired in parallel if you're so inclined). Depending on the model you have, you can get 160 W to over 300 W of 120 VAC and/or 12VDC from them. Mine (an APC Back-UPS 600) is now wired to an old car battery. It will run my computer for a lot longer than the old gel-cell that came with it. Since we're on the end of a power transmission line, it gets a fair amount of use. -- Ed Huntress |
Uses for Old UPSes
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message oups.com... Too_Many_Crossposts |
Uses for Old UPSes
Replace the batteries. We do it at work all the time.
Scott Too_Many_Tools wrote: I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT |
Uses for Old UPSes
Do you have to worry about fumes from the car battery, or do you only use
the "sealed" type of car battery? "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message oups.com... If you can get your hands on a copy of the 2005 ARRL Handbook, there are several suggestions in there (radio-related, but you can improvise from them), and some information about UPS's. One is a charger for 12V storage batteries in general, including car batteries. Another is an emergency power supply (you can just run two wires to your car battery, or a bank of deep-discharge batteries wired in parallel if you're so inclined). Depending on the model you have, you can get 160 W to over 300 W of 120 VAC and/or 12VDC from them. Mine (an APC Back-UPS 600) is now wired to an old car battery. It will run my computer for a lot longer than the old gel-cell that came with it. Since we're on the end of a power transmission line, it gets a fair amount of use. |
Uses for Old UPSes
In article .com,
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote: I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT I replace the batteries. I get them at the MIT flea market, two for 10 bucks. Yes, and they have a test load there so you can verify the batteries are good. I have had not problem. I have several free UPSs because clueless people have thrown them out at our recycling center as they are "bad." Al |
Uses for Old UPSes
Al wrote:
In article .com, "Too_Many_Tools" wrote: I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT I replace the batteries. I get them at the MIT flea market, two for 10 bucks. Yes, and they have a test load there so you can verify the batteries are good. I have had not problem. I have several free UPSs because clueless people have thrown them out at our recycling center as they are "bad." Al Generally you can get new batteries from a local battery distributor at very good prices and with local pickup no shipping costs. I used to use Midstate Battery in Bloomfield, CT but there will be wholesale distributors everywhere. With new batteries most UPSs will be good as new. Keep what you can use and sell the rest locally, donate a few to the local senior center for a tax write off (yes seniors use computers these days), etc. Pete C. |
Uses for Old UPSes
In article , Mark
wrote: I have a back-UPS 400 with a useless gelcell. However, touching terminals of a fully charged and healthy gelcell to the battery leads causes mega amps to flow, so something is likely fried. Interestingly, the dead battery has about 10.5 volts on it, in-circuit, no current! This is the classic symptom of a 12-volt lead-acid battery with one cell shorted. Hooking a 12-volt battery to a 10-volt battery will draw lots of current, as observed. Replace the old gelcell battery with the new one; do not keep the old gelcell in the circuit. Joe Gwinn |
Uses for Old UPSes
Do you have to worry about fumes from the car battery, or do you only use
the "sealed" type of car battery? ================== The 'fumes ' you refer to are hydrogen and oxygen ,with hydrogen potentially dangerous when not vented. That's why I keep non-sealed lead acid batteries on a well ventilated loft. BTW : Hydrogen has such a low density that , as tests (not by me ) have proved , it is impossible to ignite hydrogen released from vertically positioned tubing by a naked flame located at a distance of more than 100 mm ( 4 inches) from the hydrogen exhaust. Providing this info does not mean I wish to encourage anyone to 'mess about with hydrogen'. It is only to show that hydrogen doesn't spread throughout an enclosed space but ,upon release, moves upwards very rapidly . Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Uses for Old UPSes
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message oups.com... I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT Time Machine! |
Uses for Old UPSes
I apoligize if I posted too widely....I posted to the groups that I
thought might have an interest and I would be revelant information from. And I suspect I am not the only one with an extra UPS laying around looking for a second life. TMT |
Uses for Old UPSes
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:23:03 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote: "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message roups.com... I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT Time Machine! For that..you need a British phone both IRRC. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
Uses for Old UPSes
" For that..you need a British phone both IRRC. Gunner I need a new battery for my Tardis! |
Uses for Old UPSes
Tom Gardner wrote:
" For that..you need a British phone both IRRC. Gunner I need a new battery for my Tardis! Borrow one from K-9... Pete C. |
Uses for Old UPSes
Um, I didn't make myself clear, I guess - I took the old one out,
clipped to the new one, instant heat. Big heat. I'm guessing that there's circuitry which avoids draining the (bad) low voltage one past a certain point. I'm also guessing that a fully charged battery (the one I tried to hook up) enables current flow, and that perhaps the input of the invertor section is shorted. I didn't feel like leaving a perfectly good 17A-hour battery to fry itself and the surrounding wires etc..... BUt thanks for the response / mark Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , Mark wrote: I have a back-UPS 400 with a useless gelcell. However, touching terminals of a fully charged and healthy gelcell to the battery leads causes mega amps to flow, so something is likely fried. Interestingly, the dead battery has about 10.5 volts on it, in-circuit, no current! This is the classic symptom of a 12-volt lead-acid battery with one cell shorted. Hooking a 12-volt battery to a 10-volt battery will draw lots of current, as observed. Replace the old gelcell battery with the new one; do not keep the old gelcell in the circuit. Joe Gwinn |
Uses for Old UPSes
Would a 12 V deep cycle- Optima work in a APC-UPS 1400R I keep my servers
and dyno on with it along with some routers and switches. I don't know the output, the battery fails and I now have it frightfully bypassed. The batteries died and are almost 2 bills to replace. voltages ? issues? but I have a few Optima batteries from wrecked race cars that would be perfect! Any input would be appreciated, Rob Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL. "Pete C." wrote in message ... Tom Gardner wrote: " For that..you need a British phone both IRRC. Gunner I need a new battery for my Tardis! Borrow one from K-9... Pete C. |
Uses for Old UPSes
RDF wrote:
Would a 12 V deep cycle- Optima work in a APC-UPS 1400R I keep my servers and dyno on with it along with some routers and switches. I don't know the output, the battery fails and I now have it frightfully bypassed. The batteries died and are almost 2 bills to replace. voltages ? issues? but I have a few Optima batteries from wrecked race cars that would be perfect! Any input would be appreciated, Rob Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL. Unlikely, but while the replacement batteries may be, as you say 2 bills, from APC, if you take the old ones to a proper wholesale battery distributor they will in all probability be able to sell you proper replacements for about $20-$25 ea. Pete C. |
Uses for Old UPSes
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:52:01 -0600, "RDF"
wrote: Would a 12 V deep cycle- Optima work in a APC-UPS 1400R I keep my servers and dyno on with it along with some routers and switches. I don't know the output, the battery fails and I now have it frightfully bypassed. The batteries died and are almost 2 bills to replace. voltages ? issues? but I have a few Optima batteries from wrecked race cars that would be perfect! If they are 'Red Top' starting batteries, not really. Starting duty batteries aren't meant to be deep discharged, even if the Optima starved electrolyte design will take the abuse far better than most because electrolyte volume is restricted. If they're the Yellow Top deep-cycle, or the Blue Top Marine starting/deep cycle, and the voltages are right, yes. But realize it might work TOO well when compared with a standard gel-cell battery. Those Optima batteries can deliver frightening amounts of short-circuit current for several seconds and the circuit can fry before a fuse can react. -- Bruce -- -- Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545 Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net. |
Uses for Old UPSes
On 20 Nov 2005 21:14:33 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote: I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes. So what can a person build out of these? The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the components seem to be in good condition. Any suggestions? Thanks TMT Sure! I have a few of them. I usually get them for free because they are "broken". I replace the batteries and they are as good as new. I have even gotten a hold of an expensive "sine wave" UPS. Most UPSs use a sum of square waves to simulate the 60Hz sine wave. There are lots of transients and noise, however. Some (expensive) UPSs use a different type of inverter and produce pure sine wave AC. If you put an accessory plug in the side, you can use it to keep the batteries topped off and plug into the accessory plug for volts. Be careful though, the better ones use 2 12V batteries in series. Russ |
Uses for Old UPSes
"Russ" wrote in message ... Sure! I have a few of them. I usually get them for free because they are "broken". I replace the batteries and they are as good as new. I have even gotten a hold of an expensive "sine wave" UPS. Most UPSs use a sum of square waves to simulate the 60Hz sine wave. There are lots of transients and noise, however. Some (expensive) UPSs use a different type of inverter and produce pure sine wave AC. If you put an accessory plug in the side, you can use it to keep the batteries topped off and plug into the accessory plug for volts. Be careful though, the better ones use 2 12V batteries in series. You need to be very careful with this - I have seen units that have one side of line voltage on the battery terminals. This is not a problem with the batteries sealed in the UPS, but could be a big problem if you try to bring leads out to charge a battery. I have about 25 UPS' I picked up at a local university sale for $30 total. The largest was a 2KW unit with 18 12V batteries, one of which was dead :-). Metalworking content - after replacing the one bad battery I tested it using my bandsaw.... - Bob Headrick |
Uses for Old UPSes
Would a 12 V deep cycle- Optima work in a APC-UPS 1400R I keep my servers
and dyno on with it along with some routers and switches. I don't know the output, the battery fails and I now have it frightfully bypassed. The batteries died and are almost 2 bills to replace. voltages ? issues? but I have a few Optima batteries from wrecked race cars that would be perfect! =================== Suggest you check the charging instructions on the original battery and compare these with the ones applicable to the Optima type of battery. The battery in a UPS is on 'standby duty' The charging instruction for a YUASA SLA found in many UPSes has the following for standby duty : Voltage regulation : 13.5 - 13.8 V Initial current : Unlimited Connect the Optima battery to the UPS and check the voltage when the battery is fully charged . You can charge the battery externally to say 13.5 volt before you connect it to the UPS. If the fully charged voltage is in the above range ,you can safely use it for this purpose. I would think that any 12 V SLA will happily work with your APC UPS 1400R ,provided its capacity is adequate for the load to be maintained for the minimum time needed. If you use a number of batts in parallel ,please ensure there is an adequate FUSE in each battery circuit ! You can also connect a much larger 12 V sealed battery to the UPS (for example those used in electric golf trolleys). Even non-sealed batts can be used provided they are located in a well ventilated area . I have non-sealed batts located on the loft connected via leads made from welding cable running to equipment in the ground floor radio shack ( to feed radio equipment requiring a peak current not exceeding 25 Amperes) Above I mentioned batts for Golf trolleys because their cost is very reasonable nowadays there being a relatively large demand , hence competition (pun intended) Frank GMØCSZ / KN6WH |
Uses for Old UPSes
I have about 25 UPS' I picked up at a local university sale for $30 total. The largest was a 2KW unit with 18 12V batteries, one of which was dead :-). Metalworking content - after replacing the one bad battery I tested it using my bandsaw.... - Bob Headrick ========================== Bob , Interesting info ; can you confirm that the 18 pcs 12V battery were in fact 9 strings of 2 batts in series (each string having a fuse ) providing 24 V ? or were all the 18 batts in parallel ? Frank GMØCSZ / KN6WH |
Uses for Old UPSes
"2. The charging current of the tiny native 1400va ups batteries is
probably much less than that of the car batteries. Higher current coulld damage the charging circuit of the UPS. You could make some current limiter (see Art of Electronics) to limit charging current, but it probably is not worth the time. " Why would that matter? Wouldn't the charging circuit be current limited? TMT |
Uses for Old UPSes
How would one verify it in a UPS?
TMT |
Uses for Old UPSes
Yes, one could call if the company is still around and they want to
tell you. What if the UPS is propietary or if the company is long gone? Any test setup one can rig to measure rated charging capability? TMT |
Uses for Old UPSes
"Highland Ham" wrote in message ... Bob , Interesting info ; can you confirm that the 18 pcs 12V battery were in fact 9 strings of 2 batts in series (each string having a fuse ) providing 24 V ? or were all the 18 batts in parallel ? Actually they were all in series, making it a bit nerve-wracking to replace a battery in the string. - Bob W7OV |
Uses for Old UPSes
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:29:37 -0000, "Highland Ham"
wrote: I have about 25 UPS' I picked up at a local university sale for $30 total. The largest was a 2KW unit with 18 12V batteries, one of which was dead :-). Metalworking content - after replacing the one bad battery I tested it using my bandsaw.... - Bob Headrick ========================== Bob , Interesting info ; can you confirm that the 18 pcs 12V battery were in fact 9 strings of 2 batts in series (each string having a fuse ) providing 24 V ? or were all the 18 batts in parallel ? Frank GMØCSZ / KN6WH Most likely six strings of 3, for a 36 volt system, or 3 strings of 6 for 72. a 2KW 110 volt system on 12 volts would draw close to 200 volts, on 24 close to 100, on 36 close to 60, and on 72 less tan 30 amps for 18 amps out and85% +/- efficiency. |
Uses for Old UPSes
This one interests me. Wonder how many small UPSs you could run from a
truck battery (assuming using heavy enough cables between each UPS and each battery [when needed for the 24 volt input]). I am sure you would have to leave the vehicle running if running the UPSs for any length of time or heavy load... Probably pretty basic questions but I am kind of interested because I have a couple laying around and never thought of using them as an inverter (powered by a vehicle). That would make a neat addition to a garden tractor or something too... -- Brent Atkerson Anrod Screen Cylinder Co. www.anrodscreen.com "Ignoramus1487" wrote in message ... On 22 Nov 2005 10:51:01 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote: How would one verify it in a UPS? Try calling APC and ask them (with your particular model) if you can hook up an extra or external battery to it. See what they say. I blew a charging circuit on one UPS once. It was a ferrups that I picked up from trash. I wanted to use it as a powerful inverter for powering my home from my pickup, so its charging capabilities did not interest me. For a few years, it was my house power backup. It worked great, producing power from truck's battery. i |
Uses for Old UPSes
Ignoramus14135 wrote: On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:53:33 -0800, Bob Headrick wrote: I almost bought a 15 kva UPS for $49, but decided that I had too much on my hands already... i /| /| _____________________ ||__|| | | / O O\__ | PLEASE DO NOT | / \ | FEED THE TROLLS | / \ \|_____________________| / _ \ \ || / |\____\ \ || / | | | |\____/ || / \|_|_|/ | _|| / / \ |____| || / | | | --| | | | |____ --| * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/ *-- _--\ _ \ | || / _ \\ | / ` * / \_ /- | | | * ___ C_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________ |
Uses for Old UPSes
There are 2 types of UPS. One, the load actually runs off the battery (the
UPS just keeps the battery charged and inverts the DC power to AC) and the other the load actually runs on line voltage and switches to battery when line voltage disappears (this is probably the type you are speaking of but I have not tested that). Also, should not need any heavier cables (except to account for the longer length that may occur between truck battery and UPS) as long as using the UPS within the design specifications. I think it is generally about 12 Ga. wire between the battery and UPS (at least in the PC world, servers might be a little bigger since the batteries are often in series). -- Brent Atkerson Anrod Screen Cylinder Co. www.anrodscreen.com "Ignoramus1487" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:05:54 -0500, Brent Atkerson wrote: This one interests me. Wonder how many small UPSs you could run from a truck battery (assuming using heavy enough cables between each UPS and each battery [when needed for the 24 volt input]). I am sure you would have to leave the vehicle running if running the UPSs for any length of time or heavy load... Probably pretty basic questions but I am kind of interested because I have a couple laying around and never thought of using them as an inverter (powered by a vehicle). That would make a neat addition to a garden tractor or something too... Beware that some UPSes refuse to start without A/C voltage present. Kind of stupid, but it's reality. That could hinder their use for emergency. 12V is a very low voltage and you need big cables. Your battery can produce a lot of amps intermittently, so with it, you could run loads that are not too high on average. For example, on 70 amps, you could run about 700 watts of power (after considering all losses). That's enough to power up the furnace and a few fluorescent lights or the TV. Maybe even a refrigerator. Since your truck recharges the battery as it runs, the battery acts as a buffer/smoother of your alternator's output and can help produce power without frying the alternator. i |
Uses for Old UPSes
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Yes, one could call if the company is still around and they want to tell you. What if the UPS is propietary or if the company is long gone? Assume the UPS was designed to properly charge the batteries. Look up the battery manufacturer's recommended charge rate. As a practical matter, that's probably the best most people can do when the UPS specs are not available. Any test setup one can rig to measure rated charging capability? Well, if you happen to have a high wattage fully adjustable load (not very damn likely) and the wherewithal to fool the UPS into "thinking" that a battery is connected (with a variable supply and a diode or maybe a big 'lytic), you could plot a charge curve by measuring the current through the load and the voltage across it. Ed TMT |
Uses for Old UPSes
18 x 12v = 216v with plenty current...since you are with us I assume
everything went well? ;) TMT |
Uses for Old UPSes
Most are APCs but I have others (Best, Minuteman, etc.) and have access
to several others I have yet to see. My questions are an attempt to learn so I can evaluate all them properly. I appreciate the information from those who have gone before and still are around to tell about. ;) TMT |
Uses for Old UPSes
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Most are APCs but I have others (Best, Minuteman, etc.) and have access to several others I have yet to see. My questions are an attempt to learn so I can evaluate all them properly. I appreciate the information from those who have gone before and still are around to tell about. ;) TMT If you have any Best Fortress 1420s of the older model with the 4 digit display, I might be interested in purchasing them sans batteries to save on shipping if the price it right. Pete C. |
Uses for Old UPSes
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com... Most are APCs but I have others (Best, Minuteman, etc.) and have access to several others I have yet to see. My questions are an attempt to learn so I can evaluate all them properly. I appreciate the information from those who have gone before and still are around to tell about. ;) TMT I have two Minuteman units I rescued from work. Both just needed batteries. I opened them up so I could get to the battery while they were plugged in and checked the charging voltage. It was something over what the battery was rated, 13 volts and a 12 volt battery, so I figured that the charging circuit was ok. The UPS worked as far as running a load when unplugged, but they had no reserve capacity so I took a chance and put batteries in them. Greg |
Uses for Old UPSes
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:06:11 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote: Too_Many_Tools wrote: Most are APCs but I have others (Best, Minuteman, etc.) and have access to several others I have yet to see. My questions are an attempt to learn so I can evaluate all them properly. I appreciate the information from those who have gone before and still are around to tell about. ;) TMT If you have any Best Fortress 1420s of the older model with the 4 digit display, I might be interested in purchasing them sans batteries to save on shipping if the price it right. Pete C. Those older Fortress units are EXCELLENT |
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