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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
Hello all
I've been doing a fair bit of internet reading about RF construction projects. I'm still confused about something. Most authors, including those in the ARRL Handbook, seem to espouse "ugly construction" and a variant called Manhatten construction. I understand that the reason is that these techniques minimize capacitance by providing a large ground plane. Ugly construction seems to also encompass perfboard construction with wire traces or direct component-to-component connections. This seems to me to be not much better than using pre-printed boards whose traces match, in geometry, those of solderless prototyping boards. I do understand that the solderless boards are inadequate for RF work, but are the pre-printed perforated "protoboards" also inadequate. Call it an OC tendency, but ugly construction is, well, ugly. Of course, I want to use the best techniques for what I'm doing, and if UC is the way to go, then that's what I'll do. I'd appreciate your opinions on this. Thanks Basil B. |
#2
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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
Basil B. wrote:
Hello all I've been doing a fair bit of internet reading about RF construction projects. I'm still confused about something. Most authors, including those in the ARRL Handbook, seem to espouse "ugly construction" and a variant called Manhatten construction. I understand that the reason is that these techniques minimize capacitance by providing a large ground plane. Ugly construction seems to also encompass perfboard construction with wire traces or direct component-to-component connections. This seems to me to be not much better than using pre-printed boards whose traces match, in geometry, those of solderless prototyping boards. I do understand that the solderless boards are inadequate for RF work, but are the pre-printed perforated "protoboards" also inadequate. Call it an OC tendency, but ugly construction is, well, ugly. Of course, I want to use the best techniques for what I'm doing, and if UC is the way to go, then that's what I'll do. I'd appreciate your opinions on this. Thanks Basil B. I think the primary reason that folks espouse ugly construction is that it may look bad to us, but the electrons like it just fine. It can be tough to get over the aesthetics (or lack thereof) of your fine new circuit, but it'll work just as well and it'll be less work than using a PC board. You can, of course, make a PC board. Unless you know _exactly_ what you're doing you'll end up making mistakes, which will require changes, which you won't get right the first time. So if you have your new, flawed, PC board you'll modify it, and the mods will be, well, ugly. So if you're going to make something ugly anyway, why not make it ugly to start? Once it works right then you can make a nice pretty PC if you feel like it. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com |
#3
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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
Well, that is certainly a vote for UC. Do you also have an opinion of
the other idea, using pre-patterned, pre-etched boards such as Veroboard and the like? Thanks Basil Burgess |
#4
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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
Well, that is certainly a vote for UC. Do you also have an opinion of
the other idea, using pre-patterned, pre-etched boards such as Veroboard and the like? My own feeling, for what it's worth, is that these are pretty good for DC and audio-frequency projects, but can have problems at RF. A big part of the issue is one of grounding. Many of the pre-etched proto boards I've seen use most of their real estate for pads and pad-connection strips. There are usually sets of traces for supplying power and ground to the components, but these don't use more than a relatively small amount of the board's copper area and are often run as long strips coming in from the side of the board. As a result, if you have two groups of components which are physically fairly close together, and connect components in these groups to the physically-closest ground pads/strips (minimizing the lead length), you may find that there are actually quite a few inches of PC-board ground trace between one component's "grounded" lead and another. This is usually adequate at DC and audio frequency. At RF, the parasitic inductance of those long looping ground traces can have an adverse effect on the circuit's stability. You can sometimes minimize this by using a star-grounding approach, but since the connection pads are pre-etched into clusters and strips there's likely to be a limit to the number of components that you can connect to a "single point" ground, and it may not be all that good an approximation of a true single-point. One of the recipes for making stable, friendly, and reproducible designs at RF seems to be to minimize the impact of parasitic reactances. As you point out, using "ugly" construction of the Manhattan or free-air (point-to-point) variety minimizes parasitic capacitance between components, and between components and the board. It also has the benefit of minimizing parasitic _inductive_ reactance in the circuit's "ground", if you use a solid copper ground plane as the basis for your construction. "Ground" is always an approximation... a perfect ground cannot be achieved at either DC or RF... but you can get closer if you have lots of copper area to work with. Etched PC boards can be used quite successfully for RF projects, of course, and often are. It's important, when laying out such a board, to minimize unwanted parasitics... leaving large sections of un-etched copper for grounding, using wide traces, paying attention to where the actual ground currents flow, adding ground-shield traces between any signal-carrying traces that might tend to suffer from cross-coupling, and so forth. One usually does not have the luxury of being able to take advantage of these techniques (at least to their fullest) when using a pre-etched proto board, -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
#5
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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
It's much easier to make a sensitive RF circuit work with "ugly"
construction than on a typical PC board. There are a couple of reasons. One is that leads can generally be kept shorter. The second, and chief reason, is the solid, continuous ground plane. The advantage of the ground plane isn't capacitance reduction as you say, but much lower ground inductance. In a typical PC board layout, currents from various parts of a circuit have to flow through ground traces which can have considerable impedance at RF. This causes voltage drops which are related to each of the currents. The voltages are applied to the connected circuits, resulting in crosstalk and feedback. It's usually possible to get by with a fairly abbreviated ground system, but it can take an awful lot of care and knowledge to do it -- I haven't even run across a lot of otherwise skilled engineers who are good at it. The average home constructor is much more likely to succeed on the solid plane provided by "ugly" construction. It's not uncommon for an "ugly" prototype to work well and a PC board version fail -- unless you have the luxury of using a multiple-layer PC board where you can devote one layer to being a solid ground plane. The chances of succeeding with a PC depends heavily, of course, on the nature of the circuit -- some are vastly more tolerant than others. I personally like "ugly" construction also because it's much faster than making a PC board and, if done right, can be as rugged. Of course the advantages of a PC board are obvious when making multiple copies of a project. I know of what I speak -- I've spent a career designing electronic test equipment, and do consulting in the EMC field (electromagnetic compatibility, dealing with such issues as crosstalk and RFI). And I've done a considerable amount of RF homebrewing. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Basil B. wrote: Hello all I've been doing a fair bit of internet reading about RF construction projects. I'm still confused about something. Most authors, including those in the ARRL Handbook, seem to espouse "ugly construction" and a variant called Manhatten construction. I understand that the reason is that these techniques minimize capacitance by providing a large ground plane. Ugly construction seems to also encompass perfboard construction with wire traces or direct component-to-component connections. This seems to me to be not much better than using pre-printed boards whose traces match, in geometry, those of solderless prototyping boards. I do understand that the solderless boards are inadequate for RF work, but are the pre-printed perforated "protoboards" also inadequate. Call it an OC tendency, but ugly construction is, well, ugly. Of course, I want to use the best techniques for what I'm doing, and if UC is the way to go, then that's what I'll do. I'd appreciate your opinions on this. Thanks Basil B. |
#6
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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
"Basil B." wrote in message
oups.com... Call it an OC tendency, but ugly construction is, well, ugly. Of Take a peek at the work of K8IQY who really made Manhattan construction popular, or K7QO, who has some tutorials on the subject. Their work is anything but ugly. Mine on the other hand ... ... |
#7
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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
I'd like to thank you all for your input. Obviously, a process that
works and has high quality of results is much better than one that merely looks good. I did research the sites of the people you mention. I just wanted to be sure I understood the issues, and you've all helped. Thank you. Regards Basil B. |
#8
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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
On 30 Dec 2005 09:32:25 -0800, "Basil B." wrote:
Hello all I've been doing a fair bit of internet reading about RF construction projects. I'm still confused about something. Most authors, including those in the ARRL Handbook, seem to espouse "ugly construction" and a variant called Manhatten construction. I understand that the reason is that these techniques minimize capacitance by providing a large ground plane. Ugly construction seems to also encompass perfboard construction with wire traces or direct component-to-component connections. This seems to me to be not much better than using pre-printed boards whose traces match, in geometry, those of solderless prototyping boards. I do understand that the solderless boards are inadequate for RF work, but are the pre-printed perforated "protoboards" also inadequate. Call it an OC tendency, but ugly construction is, well, ugly. Of course, I want to use the best techniques for what I'm doing, and if UC is the way to go, then that's what I'll do. I'd appreciate your opinions on this. Thanks Basil B. I've done carfully constructed dead bug (ugly) RF hardware that works well at 2.4ghz and is not ugly It's a very effective techniques and with modest care it's difficult to do better with etched circuits at VHF or higher. Some of my best radios and test gear have been built this way and some test items are now several decades old. It can be very rugged as well. Allison KB!gmx |
#9
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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
I've done carefully constructed dead bug (ugly) RF hardware that works
well at 2.4ghz and is not ugly It's a very effective techniques and with modest care it's difficult to do better with etched circuits at VHF or higher. Some of my best radios and test gear have been built this way and some test items are now several decades old. It can be very rugged as well. ============================ Ugly construction can in fact be very neat. I normally use double sided PCB and drill holes to suit such that components to be grounded can be fitted perpendicular directly to the board without wire ends. These then also serve as support for non-grounded components. If non-grounded components are on their own I fit 10 MOhm resistors as 'practical stand-off insulators'. Where inductance is a critical element I use metal film resistors for this duty ,but normally carbon film resistors are fine. All board mounted components are soldered to board on both sides such that both copper sides are bonded at various places. Integrated circuit are glued 'dead bug style' with ample opportunity to connect other components. For VHF and higher I line the board edges with folded very thin copper strip. I am fortunate having found a roll with 6mm wide strip with a total length sufficient 'for life', at a flea market. Frank KN6WH / GM0CSZ |
#10
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Ground Plane construction vs pre-printed "protoboards"
In article .com,
says... I'd like to thank you all for your input. Obviously, a process that works and has high quality of results is much better than one that merely looks good. I did research the sites of the people you mention. I just wanted to be sure I understood the issues, and you've all helped. Thank you. Regards Basil B. Ugly is definitely in the eye of the beholder. If it bugs you, then you might consider enclosing your modules in neat-looking Hammond boxes, connecting them with exotic gold-plated SMA/SMB/SMC hardware. When the lid is screwed down on the box, nobody can see the ugly stuff. I've built (almost) an entire receiver this way: http://www.speakeasy.net/~jmiles1/ke...x/equinox.html Only the 1st LO synthesizer(s) are built on PC boards, and it wasn't strictly necessary even in those cases. The prototype LO was built ugly-style, and works just fine. Perfboard can best be thought of as equivalent to conventional single- sided PC boards, with no ground plane. As Roy pointed out, you often don't care about stray capacitance as much as you care about having ubiquitous access to a low-inductance ground. You don't get that with either single-sided PC boards or perfboard. Personally, I don't think much of the idea of fabbing a PC board for a one-off project, unless it involves newfangled chips with more pins than you can see. And perfboard, for me, is not the method of choice for anything but digital work -- although people have certainly used it to build some very nice gear. -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ |
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