Bill Turner wrote:
I use the Pomona die-cast boxes, but they are expensive. If you can
improve the cost factor, I will beat a path to your doorstep, as will
others.

The Pomona die-cast boxes with card mounting slots and prefabbed for
BNC's are the glitz, man. (And it's not easy to die-cast all that stuff
on, probably explains why even the little boxes can cost $70.)

Bud/Hammond/etc. make much less glitzy die-cast boxes for a lot less $.

Maybe our eternal squire wants to use CNC machines to make boxes out of
aluminum ingot? :-). Take the scraps, melt them down, repeat!

Tim.

Tim Shoppa wrote:
Bill Turner wrote:
I use the Pomona die-cast boxes, but they are expensive. If you can
improve the cost factor, I will beat a path to your doorstep, as will
others.

The Pomona die-cast boxes with card mounting slots and prefabbed for
BNC's are the glitz, man. (And it's not easy to die-cast all that stuff
on, probably explains why even the little boxes can cost $70.)

Bud/Hammond/etc. make much less glitzy die-cast boxes for a lot less $.

Maybe our eternal squire wants to use CNC machines to make boxes out of
aluminum ingot? :-). Take the scraps, melt them down, repeat!

Tim.

Got it in one guess! That, or you've been reading more newsgroups
than homebrewers.
I'll be happy for specs.

The Eternal Squire

wrote:
Tim Shoppa wrote:
Maybe our eternal squire wants to use CNC machines to make boxes out of
aluminum ingot? :-). Take the scraps, melt them down, repeat!

Got it in one guess! That, or you've been reading more newsgroups
than homebrewers.
I'll be happy for specs.

Look at how, for example http://www.pcbexpress.com/ and
http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ do business. I could imagine a
business model not too different working for custom-machined enclosures
(and CNC'ed metal widgets in general.) Target audience would be
engineering firms that don't do this in-house and aren't set up with a
local vendor, hobbyists, etc. Maybe some customers that don't do this
at all yet (amateur jewelers? who knows!!!!?!!!)

One thing that those outfits have is free CAD software for
design/specifying. If you kept your options really straightforward
(e.g. boxes with round holes and square holes for example) maybe design
could be done over the web. (Dynamic graphic generation, or maybe SVG
with user interface.)

Tim.

Tim,

After studying this, I have a question:

It seems to me that I should basically have a standard design with
options. I could then post the drawings as a webpage for people to
look at and specify those options. It will be a while before I can
consider making one-of-a-kinds for people, but standard specs and
stackable configurations I could do on a JIT basis.

Would that be acceptable for now until I could afford greater
sophistication?

Thanks,

The Eternal Squire


Tim Shoppa wrote:
wrote:
Tim Shoppa wrote:
Maybe our eternal squire wants to use CNC machines to make boxes out of
aluminum ingot? :-). Take the scraps, melt them down, repeat!

Got it in one guess! That, or you've been reading more newsgroups
than homebrewers.
I'll be happy for specs.

Look at how, for example http://www.pcbexpress.com/ and
http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ do business. I could imagine a
business model not too different working for custom-machined enclosures
(and CNC'ed metal widgets in general.) Target audience would be
engineering firms that don't do this in-house and aren't set up with a
local vendor, hobbyists, etc. Maybe some customers that don't do this
at all yet (amateur jewelers? who knows!!!!?!!!)

One thing that those outfits have is free CAD software for
design/specifying. If you kept your options really straightforward
(e.g. boxes with round holes and square holes for example) maybe design
could be done over the web. (Dynamic graphic generation, or maybe SVG
with user interface.)

Tim.

wrote:
Tim,

After studying this, I have a question:

It seems to me that I should basically have a standard design with
options. I could then post the drawings as a webpage for people to
look at and specify those options. It will be a while before I can
consider making one-of-a-kinds for people, but standard specs and
stackable configurations I could do on a JIT basis.

Would that be acceptable for now until I could afford greater
sophistication?

I actually found your aluminum scrap thread on rec.crafts.metalworking,
and I think it's pretty much hopeless to mill "standard" boxes out of
aluminum ingots and make money.

I mean, frontpanelexpress has the advantage that they start with a
sheet of the final thickness. Even a front panel with a lot of holes is
still 50% of the original material - enough of a difference to matter
for large scale production but truly negligible for small-volume stuff.
OTOH you will be milling away 99% of the original block and you truly
have to be creating unique value to make this worthwhile. At that point
the energy cost of melting down all the scraps to start over again are
probably more than the inflated retail cost of a die-cast or extruded
box.

I think you've got to concentrate on quick-turnaround custom stuff.
Just my opinion. And think about doing more than just boxes (although
boxes with holes is probably a not-too-hard-place to start from.)

Or think about a way to do custom sheet-metal operations (shearing,
bending, curving, punching, etc.) in a semi-custom way, taking orders
over the web. I know that locally, most of the "sheet metal" shops
really do almost nothing but HVAC ducts. I know that you already got
your milling machine and don't want to sink money into sheet-metal
stuff, but I think there would be a real market for custom sheet metal
stuff in the same style as frontpanelexpress and expresspcb. You'd
definitely have to sink several thousand dollars in tools and
(particularly) punches/dies but at least to me this would be far more
satisfying than spending hours milling boxes out of ingots. (How many
have you done? Gotta be dull. Of course if you're doing this on ingots
that you melted scrap into, you'd hit the occasional hard chunk and
void just to liven things up!)

Tim.

Haven't done any yet.

I mean, right now I am still exploring ideas of what I can do with a
combined milling/electronics/embedded capability as a one person mail
order business.

I think there's plenty, so long as I do sufficient market research
while asking stupid questions on homebrew or metalworking.

I am learning that it wouldn't make sense to forge my own ingots. I
have thought of
a custom chassis system made of interlocking standard parts milled out
of reliable ingots made by someone else. I can elaborate privately.

Ironically, I have a potentially infinite source of cheap AL
sheetmetal, that wrecker I mentioned that people mentioned wasn't worth
donkey dung for making ingots of. I could explore things there. But I
really want to keep the few remaining $ that I have in reserve for elex
parts and software tools.

The Eternal Squire

Tim,

Would the following cover most of my entry level needs for sheet metal
fab, for getting sheet metal in small enough shapes for my taig? I'll
'punch' holes by using the mill.

The Eternal Squire
----------------------

18'' SHEET METAL FABRICATION TOOL KIT CUTTER ROLLER

Description

Cut, form, roll beads, and make perfect flanges with one bench top
tool. Saves money and shop space. Comes with 1/4'', 3/8'', and 1/2''
bead mandrels; 1/16'', 1/8'', and 1/4'' flange mandrels; and one
18-1/4'' shearing mandrel.

Perfect for auto body workers: make your own wheel tubs, battery trays,
dashboards, fire walls, floor pans, and other sheet metal parts and
accessories. (Vise sold separately.)

Sheet metal capacity: 18 gauge

Throat depth: 18-1/4"

Andrew

Tim Shoppa wrote:
wrote:
Tim,

After studying this, I have a question:

It seems to me that I should basically have a standard design with
options. I could then post the drawings as a webpage for people to
look at and specify those options. It will be a while before I can
consider making one-of-a-kinds for people, but standard specs and
stackable configurations I could do on a JIT basis.

Would that be acceptable for now until I could afford greater
sophistication?

I actually found your aluminum scrap thread on rec.crafts.metalworking,
and I think it's pretty much hopeless to mill "standard" boxes out of
aluminum ingots and make money.

I mean, frontpanelexpress has the advantage that they start with a
sheet of the final thickness. Even a front panel with a lot of holes is
still 50% of the original material - enough of a difference to matter
for large scale production but truly negligible for small-volume stuff.
OTOH you will be milling away 99% of the original block and you truly
have to be creating unique value to make this worthwhile. At that point
the energy cost of melting down all the scraps to start over again are
probably more than the inflated retail cost of a die-cast or extruded
box.

I think you've got to concentrate on quick-turnaround custom stuff.
Just my opinion. And think about doing more than just boxes (although
boxes with holes is probably a not-too-hard-place to start from.)

Or think about a way to do custom sheet-metal operations (shearing,
bending, curving, punching, etc.) in a semi-custom way, taking orders
over the web. I know that locally, most of the "sheet metal" shops
really do almost nothing but HVAC ducts. I know that you already got
your milling machine and don't want to sink money into sheet-metal
stuff, but I think there would be a real market for custom sheet metal
stuff in the same style as frontpanelexpress and expresspcb. You'd
definitely have to sink several thousand dollars in tools and
(particularly) punches/dies but at least to me this would be far more
satisfying than spending hours milling boxes out of ingots. (How many
have you done? Gotta be dull. Of course if you're doing this on ingots
that you melted scrap into, you'd hit the occasional hard chunk and
void just to liven things up!)

Tim.

wrote:
Tim,

Would the following cover most of my entry level needs for sheet metal
fab, for getting sheet metal in small enough shapes for my taig? I'll
'punch' holes by using the mill.

The Eternal Squire
----------------------

18'' SHEET METAL FABRICATION TOOL KIT CUTTER ROLLER

That tools claims 18gauge capacity, and probably is thinking of steel
and could do some operations on thicker aluminum.

Not sure what kind of aluminum sheet you have, but 18gauge aluminum is
a bit wimpy for many electronic enclosures. It's OK for a small
mini-box, but very much less than ideal for anything larger.

That tool you point out is OK for a lot of work, but IMHO you'd also
need a "real" shear and a brake to do any sort of box fabrication. Some
of the bending can be done with a homebrew brake made out of 2x4's and
hinges but you'll get tired of this real quick.

If you think you can cut arbitrary shaped holes in large sheet metal
boxes with a milling machine, you have skills I do not have. But I
think it's more likely that you've never done much sheet metal
fabrication. A mill is not the best tool for cutting holes in sheet
metal (although clamping to sacrificial flat pieces of wood does help.)

Tim.