wrote:
wrote:

Let's see, all you have to do is find a bunch of laptops with 12V
adapters,

12V power is standard power jack for laptops

a bunch of CB radios with documentation on the mic input,

The docs could be on the CD-ROM. Squad leader or designate
could read that using the laptop.

a soldering iron to make up a mic/laptop interface cable (assuming
you can use the existing mic cable connector).
Shouldn't be too hard.


The only problem left is how to get the abandoned automobile to the
top of the 3 story office building (if any are left standing in this
disaster).
The feed could start at street level and connect to a dipole on the
rooftop.

wrote:

wrote:
wrote:

Let's see, all you have to do is find a bunch of laptops with 12V
adapters,

12V power is standard power jack for laptops

Funny, the last laptop I bought doesn't include a 12V cable. As a
matter of fact, neither did the one before it. You had to ask for
it as an add-on.

a bunch of CB radios with documentation on the mic input,

The docs could be on the CD-ROM. Squad leader or designate
could read that using the laptop.

And just where do you get this CD-ROM in a deserted, destroyed building
after the catastrophe?

Oh yeah, you've got the schematics of every CB radio ever made on
CD-ROM already and you are taking it with you.

Right,

a soldering iron to make up a mic/laptop interface cable (assuming
you can use the existing mic cable connector).
Shouldn't be too hard.

Of course every squad made up of random troops from the motor pool and
the rifle squad has a portable soldering iron, knows how to solder
and has solder.

Or or all these troops going to come from the Signal School?

Oh, wait, they are going to commandeer the soldering irons and solder
from the destroyed businesses and plug the irons into the none-functioning
AC grid, and learn how to solder from a CD-ROM.

How could I have been so stupid with only 30 years in the Army?

Maybe from teaching soldering classes?


The only problem left is how to get the abandoned automobile to the
top of the 3 story office building (if any are left standing in this
disaster).
The feed could start at street level and connect to a dipole on the
rooftop.

So where do you get the custom power cable or antenna cable to go
up three stories?

Three stories worth of cable is going to weigh a lot more than most
radios these days.

Might as well bring the radios with built in antennas and battry packs.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

In article .com writes:

wrote:
wrote:

Let's see, all you have to do is find a bunch of laptops with 12V
adapters,

12V power is standard power jack for laptops


No, it isn't. Many use higher voltages.


a bunch of CB radios with documentation on the mic input,

The docs could be on the CD-ROM. Squad leader or designate
could read that using the laptop.

a soldering iron to make up a mic/laptop interface cable (assuming
you can use the existing mic cable connector).
Shouldn't be too hard.


The only problem left is how to get the abandoned automobile to the
top of the 3 story office building (if any are left standing in this
disaster).
The feed could start at street level and connect to a dipole on the
rooftop.


Carrying a 1 to 2 pound VHF radio in will provide communications all the
way in. Using it will save a lot of personnel time that can be used for
something more important that hacking together something with a CB that
would work very poorly if at all.


Conclusion: This must be a troll. I hope that nobody in our government
is *STUPID* enough to fall for such a plan.


Alan

SSB CB radios are pretty rare items in most circles, in fact the troops
trying to commandeer CB's might not be aware of the difference and will
try to use standard CB's and they won't work in the "net". Secondly, SSB
CB's have a clarifier control that has to be adjusted. This is easy
enough with voice, but with data, it is not as easy to do by "ear". You
will have to incorporate some sort of tuning scheme in your software.
You are better off with AM because of these limitations. Are you going
to have a field expedient handbook so that the troops can figure out
which mike wires are which? It is not that easy to figure out if you are
unfamiliar with radio. Your idea of a software solution reminds me of
the BAYCOM TNC modems of the 80's. You might want to research those. You
should be able to get 3 to 5 times that rate in the consulting world by
the way.

wrote:

Brian 2W0BDW wrote:


wrote in message
groups.com...


All,

I've got a brother who works for a consulting firm whose main customer
is Homeland Secrity.

What the feds want to do is to be able to communicate mil-spec digital
packets over low power links in the middle of a disaster-hit area
between squads of Guards deployed across a destroyed city.

They cannot assume that hams and ham equipment will be available, and
they do not want to carry heavy equipment into a city. They want to be
able to use equipment that they can readily commandeer from stores such
as Radio Shack.

That pretty much means CB radios. I have heard of hams working DX
using 5 watts of PSK on 10 meters using poor antennas, so that gives me
the idea that Guard units could form medium range mobile networks using
5 watts of PSK on 11 meters using wires dropped off bridges.

Eventually the hams that do get on the scene could set up a CB to HF
gateway so that the packets could make it out from the Guards to the
NGOs.

While I am more than willing to test this setup out for my brother on a
pair of CB radios, I told him I might need an STA from the FCC to
communicate data on CB channel 40. He tells me that in an emergency,
anyone can use any frequencies they want, any power, any mode. I told
him true, but that does not help me as an OEM getting fined for testing
out an emergency scenario in a nonemergency situation.

Suggestions?

The Eternal Squire



IMHO The feds have plenty of radio equipment with comms operators that could
be shipped to disaster hit area faster than your average guards unit could
adapt/setup a purloined unit.




Thank you all for your suggestions.

This is not a hoax. But I too find the need sufficiently implausible
that I feel a little bit queasy taking R&D fees for a cause like this
at $50 per hour. The only reason that I'm not mentioning the
consulting firm is that I could stand to get paid... and any money is
better than no money. And if I'm the king's coin then I ought to make
it work.

I agree, Truck stops are a very good idea for commandeering CB's, but
you only find those in the exurbs.. Yes, other commercial radio
services could and maybe even should be drafted into this. The squad
lead could then determine the tradeoffs based on the availability of
foraged equipment.

Allison, your idea of using the dummy loads to simulate fading over
distance is OUTSTANDING. I'll do it!

Using dummy loads as a demo, I could then get the consulting firm to
ask the FCC for an STA for field tests.

For my test rigs, I'm intending to plug in a laptop sound card I/O into
the SSB mic and headphone jacks. Therefore no type acceptance needed
because no mods.

My brother says ideally in the scenario, each squad leader should only
need to carry a mini-CDROM in his or her pocket. The squad lead could
then commandeer a laptop, an SSB CB radio, and then use an abandoned
automobile as an electric generator for the laptop and radio. Antenna
would be flung over a 3 story office building.

One of the reasons for this scenario is to lighten the overall squad
load and thereby increase the speed of response. That way each squad
could break into an abandoned store and then set up a first responder
posts.




--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:10:14 GMT, **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
wrote:

SSB CB radios are pretty rare items in most circles, in fact the troops
trying to commandeer CB's might not be aware of the difference and will
try to use standard CB's and they won't work in the "net". Secondly, SSB
CB's have a clarifier control that has to be adjusted. This is easy
enough with voice, but with data, it is not as easy to do by "ear". You
will have to incorporate some sort of tuning scheme in your software.
You are better off with AM because of these limitations. Are you going
to have a field expedient handbook so that the troops can figure out
which mike wires are which? It is not that easy to figure out if you are

Thats funny! Actually CB radios are very diverse with their mic
wiring and switching schemes as in if not done correctly they will
not transmit _or_ recieve.

It's a bad idea and deserves to die an expedient death.

It would be far easier to mass produce a UHF FM radio based on
GMRS chipsets with a digital interface. Then give everyone
a box of them and a box of batteries.

Allison

unfamiliar with radio. Your idea of a software solution reminds me of
the BAYCOM TNC modems of the 80's. You might want to research those. You
should be able to get 3 to 5 times that rate in the consulting world by
the way.

wrote:

Brian 2W0BDW wrote:


wrote in message
egroups.com...


All,

I've got a brother who works for a consulting firm whose main customer
is Homeland Secrity.

What the feds want to do is to be able to communicate mil-spec digital
packets over low power links in the middle of a disaster-hit area
between squads of Guards deployed across a destroyed city.

They cannot assume that hams and ham equipment will be available, and
they do not want to carry heavy equipment into a city. They want to be
able to use equipment that they can readily commandeer from stores such
as Radio Shack.

That pretty much means CB radios. I have heard of hams working DX
using 5 watts of PSK on 10 meters using poor antennas, so that gives me
the idea that Guard units could form medium range mobile networks using
5 watts of PSK on 11 meters using wires dropped off bridges.

Eventually the hams that do get on the scene could set up a CB to HF
gateway so that the packets could make it out from the Guards to the
NGOs.

While I am more than willing to test this setup out for my brother on a
pair of CB radios, I told him I might need an STA from the FCC to
communicate data on CB channel 40. He tells me that in an emergency,
anyone can use any frequencies they want, any power, any mode. I told
him true, but that does not help me as an OEM getting fined for testing
out an emergency scenario in a nonemergency situation.

Suggestions?

The Eternal Squire



IMHO The feds have plenty of radio equipment with comms operators that could
be shipped to disaster hit area faster than your average guards unit could
adapt/setup a purloined unit.




Thank you all for your suggestions.

This is not a hoax. But I too find the need sufficiently implausible
that I feel a little bit queasy taking R&D fees for a cause like this
at $50 per hour. The only reason that I'm not mentioning the
consulting firm is that I could stand to get paid... and any money is
better than no money. And if I'm the king's coin then I ought to make
it work.

I agree, Truck stops are a very good idea for commandeering CB's, but
you only find those in the exurbs.. Yes, other commercial radio
services could and maybe even should be drafted into this. The squad
lead could then determine the tradeoffs based on the availability of
foraged equipment.

Allison, your idea of using the dummy loads to simulate fading over
distance is OUTSTANDING. I'll do it!

Using dummy loads as a demo, I could then get the consulting firm to
ask the FCC for an STA for field tests.

For my test rigs, I'm intending to plug in a laptop sound card I/O into
the SSB mic and headphone jacks. Therefore no type acceptance needed
because no mods.

My brother says ideally in the scenario, each squad leader should only
need to carry a mini-CDROM in his or her pocket. The squad lead could
then commandeer a laptop, an SSB CB radio, and then use an abandoned
automobile as an electric generator for the laptop and radio. Antenna
would be flung over a 3 story office building.

One of the reasons for this scenario is to lighten the overall squad
load and thereby increase the speed of response. That way each squad
could break into an abandoned store and then set up a first responder
posts.

In article .com writes:

Thank you all for your suggestions.

This is not a hoax. But I too find the need sufficiently implausible
that I feel a little bit queasy taking R&D fees for a cause like this
at $50 per hour. The only reason that I'm not mentioning the
consulting firm is that I could stand to get paid... and any money is
better than no money. And if I'm the king's coin then I ought to make
it work.

I agree, Truck stops are a very good idea for commandeering CB's, but
you only find those in the exurbs.. Yes, other commercial radio
services could and maybe even should be drafted into this. The squad
lead could then determine the tradeoffs based on the availability of
foraged equipment.

Allison, your idea of using the dummy loads to simulate fading over
distance is OUTSTANDING. I'll do it!

Using dummy loads as a demo, I could then get the consulting firm to
ask the FCC for an STA for field tests.

For my test rigs, I'm intending to plug in a laptop sound card I/O into
the SSB mic and headphone jacks. Therefore no type acceptance needed
because no mods.


As soon as you plug in something other than the approved mike, you have
probably broken type acceptance.


My brother says ideally in the scenario, each squad leader should only
need to carry a mini-CDROM in his or her pocket. The squad lead could
then commandeer a laptop, an SSB CB radio, and then use an abandoned
automobile as an electric generator for the laptop and radio. Antenna
would be flung over a 3 story office building.


SSB CB radios are fairly rare nowdays.

The microphone connection is non-standard, and won't directly wire to
a sound card.


A wire flung over a 3 story office building won't be matched. It will
likely work poorly, or it may even fry the transmitter.


One of the reasons for this scenario is to lighten the overall squad
load and thereby increase the speed of response. That way each squad
could break into an abandoned store and then set up a first responder
posts.

A 1 to 2 pound VHF radio will give better coverage, will function as
they are going in, and will free up personnel labor for more important
tasks.

Wasting a person's time setting something like this up is more serious
than carrying a small hand-held radio.


Alan

wrote:
All,

While I am more than willing to test this setup out for my brother on a
pair of CB radios, I told him I might need an STA from the FCC to
communicate data on CB channel 40. He tells me that in an emergency,
anyone can use any frequencies they want, any power, any mode. I told
him true, but that does not help me as an OEM getting fined for testing
out an emergency scenario in a nonemergency situation.
STA are temproary and not supposed to be granted for perment possible
ops the people ask in this case would the FCC iself but I an STA would
allow protype testing and such but deployment authoity would need some
mondo rulling to be legal

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:41:25 -0700, eternalsquire wrote:

All,

I've got a brother who works for a consulting firm whose main customer is
Homeland Secrity.

snip

It's against the law for feds to use freqs not assigned to them. At least
by design.

In article .com,
wrote:
All,

I've got a brother who works for a consulting firm whose main customer
is Homeland Secrity.

What the feds want to do is to be able to communicate mil-spec digital
packets over low power links in the middle of a disaster-hit area
between squads of Guards deployed across a destroyed city.

They cannot assume that hams and ham equipment will be available, and
they do not want to carry heavy equipment into a city. They want to be
able to use equipment that they can readily commandeer from stores such
as Radio Shack.

That pretty much means CB radios. I have heard of hams working DX
using 5 watts of PSK on 10 meters using poor antennas, so that gives me
the idea that Guard units could form medium range mobile networks using
5 watts of PSK on 11 meters using wires dropped off bridges.

Eventually the hams that do get on the scene could set up a CB to HF
gateway so that the packets could make it out from the Guards to the
NGOs.

While I am more than willing to test this setup out for my brother on a
pair of CB radios, I told him I might need an STA from the FCC to
communicate data on CB channel 40. He tells me that in an emergency,
anyone can use any frequencies they want, any power, any mode. I told
him true, but that does not help me as an OEM getting fined for testing
out an emergency scenario in a nonemergency situation.

Suggestions?

The CB band is also listed under the license free regulations, Part 15
so if you run low enough power, you don't need a license, and there are
no particular restrictions on mode.

15.227 Operation within the band 26.96-27.28 MHz.

(a) The field strength of any emission within this band shall not
exceed 10,000 microvolts/meter at 3 meters. The emission limit in this
paragraph is based on measurement instrumenta-tion employing an average
detector. The provisions in § 15.35 for limiting peak emissions apply.

(b) The field strength of any emissions which appear outside of this
band shall not exceed the general radiated emission limits in § 15.209.

Channel 40 is above 27.28 MHz, about channel 27 as near as I can tell
(channels are not sequential frequencies).

Contrary to popular opinion, I think that a packet radio relay made with
a portable computer with a sound card, a CB transceiver, and a patch cable
all made from stuff that you could "liberate" from the local Radio Shack
is possible. Some sort of PTT control (VOX?) would be the hardest part.

Given my opinion of the average CBer's conception of "The Public Good",
I don't expect that a system could run without getting the hell jammed
out of it, even if the military is exempt from FCC regs.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

Mark Zenier wrote:


snip

Contrary to popular opinion, I think that a packet radio relay made with
a portable computer with a sound card, a CB transceiver, and a patch cable
all made from stuff that you could "liberate" from the local Radio Shack
is possible. Some sort of PTT control (VOX?) would be the hardest part.

It is not a matter of being possible to do by someone who knows what
they are doing.

It is a matter of being practical to do by random, untrained people,
and doing it many times.

snip remaining

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.