All,

I've got a brother who works for a consulting firm whose main customer
is Homeland Secrity.

What the feds want to do is to be able to communicate mil-spec digital
packets over low power links in the middle of a disaster-hit area
between squads of Guards deployed across a destroyed city.

They cannot assume that hams and ham equipment will be available, and
they do not want to carry heavy equipment into a city. They want to be
able to use equipment that they can readily commandeer from stores such
as Radio Shack.

That pretty much means CB radios. I have heard of hams working DX
using 5 watts of PSK on 10 meters using poor antennas, so that gives me
the idea that Guard units could form medium range mobile networks using
5 watts of PSK on 11 meters using wires dropped off bridges.

Eventually the hams that do get on the scene could set up a CB to HF
gateway so that the packets could make it out from the Guards to the
NGOs.

While I am more than willing to test this setup out for my brother on a
pair of CB radios, I told him I might need an STA from the FCC to
communicate data on CB channel 40. He tells me that in an emergency,
anyone can use any frequencies they want, any power, any mode. I told
him true, but that does not help me as an OEM getting fined for testing
out an emergency scenario in a nonemergency situation.

Suggestions?

The Eternal Squire

The CB band is close enough to the 10m amateur band ,such that when the
test
is done within the amateur band it would also be valid for the CB band .
Although you might have to do the test in the 10m amateur band with 300
baud ,whereas in the CB band you could use 1200 Baud.
Unless the 300 Baud limit in amateur allocated HF bands has been / can
be lifted.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

===============================================

While I am more than willing to test this setup out for my brother on a
pair of CB radios, I told him I might need an STA from the FCC to
communicate data on CB channel 40. He tells me that in an emergency,
anyone can use any frequencies they want, any power, any mode. I told
him true, but that does not help me as an OEM getting fined for testing
out an emergency scenario in a nonemergency situation.

Suggestions?

The Eternal Squire

wrote in message
oups.com...
All,

I've got a brother who works for a consulting firm whose main customer
is Homeland Secrity.

What the feds want to do is to be able to communicate mil-spec digital
packets over low power links in the middle of a disaster-hit area
between squads of Guards deployed across a destroyed city.

I can't believe they would be asking a company with such a lack of knowledge
that you have to post a message to a newsgroup!
I think you're telling a bit of a fairy tale. They wouldn't be using CB as
there is a vast array of communications equipment already in use - or did
your brother forget to tell you that.
What's the name of his company so we can all avoid what appears to be bunch
of amateurs.

In article .com,
wrote:

What the feds want to do is to be able to communicate mil-spec digital
packets over low power links in the middle of a disaster-hit area
between squads of Guards deployed across a destroyed city.

They cannot assume that hams and ham equipment will be available, and
they do not want to carry heavy equipment into a city. They want to be
able to use equipment that they can readily commandeer from stores such
as Radio Shack.

E.S.-

With all due respect to your brother, this is an extremely unlikely
scenario. While a common AM CB radio might be modified to perform the
task, you aren't going to commandeer one from Radio Shack that a Guardsman
can adapt for such data transmission.

Just how heavy do you think a data radio would be? A unit as small as the
smallest CB could be designed to perform the function (and may be
off-the-shelf). In other words, such a data system MUST be carried in to
ensure it is going to work, and it won't be so "heavy" that each unit
can't have spares handy.

Fred

wrote in message
oups.com...
All,

I've got a brother who works for a consulting firm whose main customer
is Homeland Security.

Please supply me this consulting firm name.

Is this former FEMA director Mike Brown's consulting firm by chance?

In article .com,
wrote:

While I am more than willing to test this setup out for my brother on a
pair of CB radios, I told him I might need an STA from the FCC to
communicate data on CB channel 40. He tells me that in an emergency,
anyone can use any frequencies they want, any power, any mode. I told
him true, but that does not help me as an OEM getting fined for testing
out an emergency scenario in a nonemergency situation.

I think you're correct. Part 95, section 631 (c) and (e) and (f)
make it quite clear that data transmission over CB is a no-no.

In addition, the simple act of hooking up a data transmission circuit
to a CB radio's modulator might be considered to be enough of a
modification to void the transmitter's certification.

Applying for an STA certainly seems to be the safe thing to do. And,
if you get one yourself, the end-user agency should probably also get
one, so they can run periodic tests and drills without breaking the
rules.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On 18 Jun 2006 10:41:25 -0700, wrote:

All,

I've got a brother who works for a consulting firm whose main customer
is Homeland Secrity.

What the feds want to do is to be able to communicate mil-spec digital
packets over low power links in the middle of a disaster-hit area
between squads of Guards deployed across a destroyed city.

They cannot assume that hams and ham equipment will be available, and
they do not want to carry heavy equipment into a city. They want to be
able to use equipment that they can readily commandeer from stores such
as Radio Shack.

That pretty much means CB radios. I have heard of hams working DX
using 5 watts of PSK on 10 meters using poor antennas, so that gives me
the idea that Guard units could form medium range mobile networks using
5 watts of PSK on 11 meters using wires dropped off bridges.

Eventually the hams that do get on the scene could set up a CB to HF
gateway so that the packets could make it out from the Guards to the
NGOs.

While I am more than willing to test this setup out for my brother on a
pair of CB radios, I told him I might need an STA from the FCC to
communicate data on CB channel 40. He tells me that in an emergency,
anyone can use any frequencies they want, any power, any mode. I told
him true, but that does not help me as an OEM getting fined for testing
out an emergency scenario in a nonemergency situation.

Suggestions?

The Eternal Squire

I for one think this is a bit hairbrained. But here goes...

Actually you can break the task down two several larger problems.

Is AM modulation suitable?

What connectors? The average CB uses one of ten different mic
connectors and of those the same type none are wired the same!

Forget internal mods, they are very different from unit and
some are surface mount construction. Also type acceptance
and operating rules) prohibit most data, image and modifications.

How will they power the CB radio? A 5W radio under full TX
modulation want about 15-20W of power (1.5-2A) SSB versions are
far more power hungry (2-4A on TX for legal radios and the import
illegals can run far higher.).

Radios vary widely from real junk to near decent so you need to find
examples of the worst to be sure your not encouraging an interference
generator.

At this time RS is closing stores and I think at most they carry only
a few (if any instock) different CB sets. You'd have better luck at a
truck stop!

What do thy expect to use for an antenna? The average CB set will
fry the finals if the antenna isn't tuned reasonably well.

You can test the basics using dummy loads before you get into
the STA.

FYI: GMRS radios present a better choice and are more widely sold.
GMRS being higher power thn FRS and often better radios for short
range (UHF FM) ops.



Allison

) writes:

While I am more than willing to test this setup out for my brother on a
pair of CB radios, I told him I might need an STA from the FCC to
communicate data on CB channel 40. He tells me that in an emergency,
anyone can use any frequencies they want, any power, any mode.

I think this is a misreading of the rules.

Yes, if someone's ship is sinking, or someone is lost in the mountains,
it is far better to use what's available than die. But, I seem to
recall some cases in the US where someone just blasted away, and it
was deemed later that the emergency was not serious enough.

But, the scenario you are talking about is not the same thing. You
aren't talking about someone trying anything to save themselves, you
are talking about organized emergency work. And once that starts happening,
you can't have anything goes, for the same reasons that there are
rules to regulate radio under non-emergency conditions.

If you blast away at any frequency or any power, then you could
so easily interfere with some other legitimate emergency communication.
Your communication may not be more important than someone else's, and
hence frequency coordination is just as important.

It has been long argued that one reason to keep amateur radio around
is that in the case of a big emergency, it's relatively easy to put
amateur radio to rest, and then you get some big chunks of spectrum
that won't be used for necessary or emergency communication. IN other
words, using amateur radio frequencies is one scenario that is already
planned if the emergency is important enough (aside from it being
used as auxiliary communication with hams using their existing
equipment.

But, life goes on, and you can't superimpose a lot of communication
onto frequencies that are needed for existing communication needs
which won't go away when an emergency comes along.

And on a completely other note, as others have pointed out, even
if an existing communication band is the only choice, there are far
better choices than the 27MHz band. A big problem of that band
is that when the skip is in, it's made fairly useless because
distant stations come in nice and strong. And likewise, you
want a band that's good for local communication, and the fact
that you can get great range under good conditions on 10meters
is not the same as getting good reliable local communication.


Michael VE2BVW

wrote:
All,

I've got a brother who works for a consulting firm whose main customer
is Homeland Secrity.

What the feds want to do is to be able to communicate mil-spec digital
packets over low power links in the middle of a disaster-hit area
between squads of Guards deployed across a destroyed city.



Wow, looks like consultants are the same the world over - come up with
lunatic schemes, and get paid lots of money for them.

Tell him to get a real job - it will pay less, but he wont be held
responsible after the next major stuff up.

And tell him to buy a text book on - well, just about anything except
self-promotion - he doesnt seem to know very much. Probably why hes a
consultant. Is he an accountant?

And dont the National Guard units already have radios - they have been
issued to military units since, lets say, 1918 or therabouts.....

What a wonderful scenario - due to basic functional stupidity, the
disaster plan is contingent on being able to commandeer radios from
stores, and , with a swiss army knife, modify them for data
communications. There is, of course, a team of trained technicians
with the advancing relief workers who can do this.The data comms gear
is already with the people trying to get it to work on the commandeered
radios.......

Get real people - this is either a post from someone taking the mickey
out of you guys, or, if it is a real, serous idea - make sure you dont
need any external help if a disaster does happen in your area.....
sounds like organising a frozen chicken raffle would be straining their
ability..

Andrew VK3BFA.

On 18 Jun 2006 10:41:25 -0700,
wrote:
What the feds want to do is to be able to communicate mil-spec digital
packets over low power links in the middle of a disaster-hit area
between squads of Guards deployed across a destroyed city.
[...]
Suggestions?

I suggest that you consider using the unlicensed MURS band for this.
Unfortunately you cannot just walk in to a walmart or radioshack and
grab a MURS radio. Rather visit rkleef.com and look at the MURS22
units, or google for the "dakota alert" MURS radios.

Good luck,
--John