Hi Everyone,

I hope to get my technician license for the first time in a month or
two, and I've been thinking of setting-up shop in the garage once I
start getting some radios and equipment.

Some questions though, the garage is on the corner of our brick house
with one smaller window (facing front of house), two walls are interior
walls with other two being exterior (one having garage door).

My thought is if I insulate the attic and the one exterior wall without
the garage door then replace my aging garage door with a better sealing
one, that should do the trick -- right? As for heating and cooling,
i'm in central texas, and our summers do get hot. I don't think our
A/C in the house could pump out enough cool air to cool an additional
430sqft, so any suggestions for that? The only window is on front of
house, so don't want to use window unit. I have a radiant heater I've
used in there for winter, and it works well.

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ... we don't park our cars in the
garage, and I hope to build a small shead in the back yard for the
mowers and such -- so that's 430sqft of space that's going to waste.

Thanks again and take care ---

Alex

I use my tornado shelter. It is small, and cozy, and doesn't need
air condx much cause it is soil temp in winter or summer.... Still
gets a little cold, tho.... And the wife NEVER goes there, so I can
put up my Elvira posters and not get any grief......
===================================
I thought you would get enough excitement from Ham Radio alone...........)

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:31:26 -0700, Alex wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I hope to get my technician license for the first time in a month or
two, and I've been thinking of setting-up shop in the garage once I
start getting some radios and equipment.

Some questions though, the garage is on the corner of our brick house
with one smaller window (facing front of house), two walls are interior
walls with other two being exterior (one having garage door).

Andy: my answer is completely lateral thinking, but if for some reason the
whole ham shcak thing at your home doesn't work out what about HF/VHF
mobile from your car (with A/C of course), or join your local ham radio
club that has its own station. I know from experience that many club
stations often get very little use!

Good luck with your solutions...
Larry VE7EA

I am in Central Oklahoma. It is a little cooler in Oklahoma but not
much.

I built a garage shack a couple years ago. I framed a 9 x 9 room and
insulated the ceiling and outside walls. I sheet rocked, texturized and
painted the inside. One side is a rib-high workbench with shelves for
parts, tools and my test gear. I was more concerned with the workspace
but left room for an operating position on an opposite wall.

Check Ace Hardware's portable air conditioners. I have a roll-around
that vents into the garage and sits in one corner on wheels. I am
considering adding the house system at some time as the main unit is 3
feet from the room. However, the portable is better than I expected.
These units can be purchased with heaters too.

I decided to make the room permanent. It is airtight and heats and
cools well. But simple plywood and insulation would provide a good
start.
Very temporary walls could be build but in my case I wanted a solid
door. Also, a couple 100W light bulbs keep the room decent the whole
winter at 60 deg or above.

I also have intake air drawn from a less unused portion of the house
with a small one way dryer vent when I used the airconditioner. Not
real efficient but I don't see the effect on my electric bill.

A little more complex but lets me use the shop during the hottest parts
of the summer days.

I had always wanted a secluded room/shop of my own and I have been real
happy with it. I build tube gear and its most enjoyable on those cold
winter nights when no heater is needed with 21 tubes blazing away.

BTW, in my old house I merely put some heavy cloth material around the
bench in the winter and used a small space heater. Totally unsafe but I
was younger, dumber.....and luckier.

K5UOS

Alex wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I hope to get my technician license for the first time in a month or
two, and I've been thinking of setting-up shop in the garage once I
start getting some radios and equipment.

Some questions though, the garage is on the corner of our brick house
with one smaller window (facing front of house), two walls are interior
walls with other two being exterior (one having garage door).

My thought is if I insulate the attic and the one exterior wall without
the garage door then replace my aging garage door with a better sealing
one, that should do the trick -- right? As for heating and cooling,
i'm in central texas, and our summers do get hot. I don't think our
A/C in the house could pump out enough cool air to cool an additional
430sqft, so any suggestions for that? The only window is on front of
house, so don't want to use window unit. I have a radiant heater I've
used in there for winter, and it works well.

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas ... we don't park our cars in the
garage, and I hope to build a small shead in the back yard for the
mowers and such -- so that's 430sqft of space that's going to waste.

Thanks again and take care ---

Alex

Garage doors lack insulation, but you can do something about that.
I live in South Florida, and while it doesn't get as hot as in Texas,
it does get hot. We added insulation to our metal garage door in the
form of Styrofoam insulating panels slipped into the inside of the door
ducktaped in place. Fiberglass insulation with the cardboard backing
would work as well. (Which has the better R value??). You might have
to re-balance the door after adding the insulation, but in our case
the garage door opener didn't seem to care and isn't straining. The
insulation lowered the temperature in the garage during the summer by
at least 10 degrees F.

Garage doors lack insulation, but you can do something about that.
I live in South Florida, and while it doesn't get as hot as in Texas,
it does get hot. We added insulation to our metal garage door in the
form of Styrofoam insulating panels slipped into the inside of the door
ducktaped in place. Fiberglass insulation with the cardboard backing
would work as well. (Which has the better R value??). You might have
to re-balance the door after adding the insulation, but in our case
the garage door opener didn't seem to care and isn't straining. The
insulation lowered the temperature in the garage during the summer by
at least 10 degrees F.
================================
Normally this would be OT in this NG ,but mentioning styrofoam =
polystyrene , it is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery flammable and if used in an
enclosed environment ,people inside would be in real trouble when a fire
broke out. Insulating material should be fireproof or at least flame
retardent while not emitting toxic/suffocating fumes.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Highland Ham wrote:
Garage doors lack insulation, but you can do something about that.
I live in South Florida, and while it doesn't get as hot as in Texas,
it does get hot. We added insulation to our metal garage door in the
form of Styrofoam insulating panels slipped into the inside of the door
ducktaped in place. Fiberglass insulation with the cardboard backing
would work as well. (Which has the better R value??). You might have
to re-balance the door after adding the insulation, but in our case
the garage door opener didn't seem to care and isn't straining. The
insulation lowered the temperature in the garage during the summer by
at least 10 degrees F.
================================
Normally this would be OT in this NG ,but mentioning styrofoam =
polystyrene , it is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery flammable and if used in an
enclosed environment ,people inside would be in real trouble when a fire
broke out. Insulating material should be fireproof or at least flame
retardent while not emitting toxic/suffocating fumes.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH


Andy comments:
My garage door is of the insulated type. It has some sort of
fiberglass stuff
like you get in those 4x2 ceiling tiles.... It is redundant and I
think more of a
sales gimmick than any real barrier to heat transfer.....

Regarding roll around air conditioners..... I like the idea a lot,
but they
are very very very expensive compared to a vanilla window unit....
Home Depot sells a window unit here for about $80 USD while the
cheapest
roll around I have seen is over $300 USD for about the same size....
A crafty ham would buy a window unit and then build a little roll
around
cabinet with some dryer vent hoses to make his own. After all, most of

the fun is building stuff, even if it doesn't look like a "finished"
product.....

( I am a big fan of The Red Green Show :)))) )

I am doing something like that in my attic ---- running the intake
duct
from the cooler garage below and the air exits into the attic, which is
already
hot so a little more heat won't matter..... Not a roll around, but a
ducted
cabinet....... But then I have nothing better to do all day except to
mess
around with this stuff .... probly not a great idea for everybody, tho.
I go thru a lot of duct tape..........

Just my dos centavos.....

Andy in Eureka, Texas W4OAH

On 30 Jun 2006 17:20:16 -0700, "AndyS" wrote:



Here is a suggestion that you might consider.... Wall off a closet
sized part of your garage, either with cheap panelling or maybe
plastic curtains, and get a Home Depot $70 air conditioner to use
just for that part..... Also good for space heater in winter....

Isolating a small volume from the garage makes sense since now the
thermal resistance of the external wall and the closet walls are in
series, thus reducing the heat leakage from the outside to the
operating position and hence, reducing the heat that needs to be
removed by the air conditioner.

Since the closet walls are much smaller than the garage wall inside
dimensions, for a specific amount of isolation material (and cost)
much better isolation can be obtained by isolating the closet than
isolating the whole garage.

Perhaps you can make sliding curtains like they do around hospital
beds..... A little 5000 BTU unit will cool the hell out of a small
closet-like
area, even if it is poorly insulated and leaks like hell.... The air
condx
can be mounted on a little dolly or something......venting into the
rest
of the garage. And slid off on the side when not in use...

Venting into the rest of the garage does not make sense, especially
with light closet walls, since this would be equivalent to an electric
or acoustic short circuit.

If you look at the situation from the rest of the garage, the heat
from the closet will enter the larger garage space, as well as the
power required to run the air conditioner, as well as the leakage from
the outside world through the garage walls.

The rest of the garage will get very hot and if the closet walls are
light, leak back into the closet, requiring more air conditioner power
to remove it etc. The temperature of the rest of the garage will
continue to rise, until the temperature is sufficiently _above_ the
outside temperature and sufficient amount of thermal energy will flow
_out_ through the garage external walls.

Two ways to avoid this problem, one is to let the closet air
conditioner pump the heat to the outside air or if the heat is pumped
into the rest of the garage, at least open the garage door and use
sufficiently good isolation in the closet walls to keep the air
conditional power requirements at a reasonable level.

After all, air conditioning is a similar problem as thermal management
in any semiconductor systems, which use the analogies with
resistances/conductances (thermal isolation/conduction) and
capacitances (specific heat x mass).

Paul OH3LWR

Highland Ham wrote:
Garage doors lack insulation, but you can do something about that.
I live in South Florida, and while it doesn't get as hot as in Texas,
it does get hot. We added insulation to our metal garage door in the
form of Styrofoam insulating panels slipped into the inside of the door
ducktaped in place. Fiberglass insulation with the cardboard backing
would work as well. (Which has the better R value??). You might have
to re-balance the door after adding the insulation, but in our case
the garage door opener didn't seem to care and isn't straining. The
insulation lowered the temperature in the garage during the summer by
at least 10 degrees F.
================================
Normally this would be OT in this NG ,but mentioning styrofoam =
polystyrene , it is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery flammable and if used in an
enclosed environment ,people inside would be in real trouble when a fire
broke out. Insulating material should be fireproof or at least flame
retardent while not emitting toxic/suffocating fumes.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH
Styrofoam type insulating material that is designed for the purpose is
made in a fire-retardant form. You have to buy the material made for
the purpose!!!

Paul Keinanen wrote:
The rest of the garage will get very hot and if the closet walls are
light, leak back into the closet, requiring more air conditioner power
to remove it etc. The temperature of the rest of the garage will
continue to rise, until the temperature is sufficiently _above_ the
outside temperature and sufficient amount of thermal energy will flow
_out_ through the garage external walls.

******* I am assuming the operator will put the garage door up
in the summer and down in the winter..... This ain't rocket
surgery....


Two ways to avoid this problem, one is to let the closet air
conditioner pump the heat to the outside air or if the heat is pumped
into the rest of the garage, at least open the garage door and use
sufficiently good isolation in the closet walls to keep the air
conditional power requirements at a reasonable level.

*** Ahhh,... I see the idea occurred to you, also........ I know that
the
OP doesn't want to knock holes in his garage wall for a vent,
otherwise he would have just put it in a window or access door and
not bothered to post here for our whacko solutions ... :))))


After all, air conditioning is a similar problem as thermal management
in any semiconductor systems, which use the analogies with
resistances/conductances (thermal isolation/conduction) and
capacitances (specific heat x mass).

***** Wow !! I am still reeling from the concept of a $80 air
conditioner
being used in the same sentence as : " the analogies with
resistances/conductances (thermal isolation/conduction) "
Whew !! Maybe this IS rocket surgery !!! :))))))

Andy W40AH ( LPE ( licensed professional engineer ) )