On Apr 16, 2:59�pm, "Ivor Jones" wrote:

,
typed:

: Actually, gasoline prices aren't really skyrocketing.
: What's happening
: is that we've had years and years of gasoline prices
: not keeping up
: with inflation, and now they are making up for lost time (and then
: some).

Hmm. Try paying UK prices and you'll change your mind..!

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

What I should have written is that *US* gasoline prices aren't really
skyrocketing.

Not certain of
the exact conversion rates as our prices are in litres and I'm not
sure of
the size of the US gallon, I believe it's slightly smaller than the UK
one, but average prices here are around �1.07 per *litre* at the
moment,
which at current pound/dollar rates makes it around $9 per
imperial gallon.

The following were found at various sites (thanks Google):

One US gallon is 3.79 litres. So 1 gallon of gasoline at the price you
quote would cost 4.055 pounds.

Today, April 16, 1 pound exchanges to 1.9756 dollars, so 4.055 pounds
equals $8.01 for a US gallon of gasoline.

I wish we had your prices..!!

Thanks for proving my point!

The amateur radio connection in all of this is that inflation hits
different things in very different ways, which of course has its
effects on us hams. For example, here in the USA, even with the weak
dollar, amateur radio transceivers are a better deal than when I
became a ham 40 years ago, and probably any time since. Back then the
biggest bargain in new ham gear was the $250 Heath HW-101 kit. $250
then equals $1500 now, and for $1500 you can get a lot more rig! (the
westegg inflation calculator says a dollar in 1967 bought what about
$6 buys today, on average).

If you really want to get sticker shock, check out what the PCs of
10-20 years ago cost, then add in the inflation.

OTOH the cost of a house in many parts of the USA to put the ham rig
in has gone up a lot more than a factor of 6, even allowing for the
current soft RE market. (A lot of us who aren't retired have to go
where the jobs are.)

The result is that we have a lot of US hams today who have great rigs
but not houses where they can gave good antennas.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On Apr 16, 12:11pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:03 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:

175 dollars for gas

I factored in 3.40 for gas, and some riding
around during the week. The Vitara gets around 28 mpg
highway. I won't be surprised if it costs more
than that by mid-May.

I expect $4/US gallon this summer. $5 wouldn't shock me.

note that even if the price of gas was cut in half
tomorrow, the trip would still cost over $500.
IMHO the amazing thing
is that so many hams from outside the day-trip
area go to Dayton.

Very true. What happens though is that it hits a
trigger point, and a person who might have figured on
going someplace might just reconsider
it's worth.

I can get a lot of equipment for that (that total amount of)
money, and after 2 years, I can afford that IC-7000 I drool over.

Or an Elecraft K3....

It's part of human spending behavior that some
expenditures are viewed so differently than others.
A few dollars here and there adds up but
doesn't seem the same.

The trade off is that I really do enjoy the interaction with other
Hams, the seminars, flea market and ability to talk to the vendors.

I've never been to Dayton. TImonium is the big one around here. But
it's a haul!

Actually,

*US*

gasoline prices aren't really skyrocketing.

What that doesn't show is the impact of changing driving styles.

I used to put less than 10K per year on a vehicle,
now it is closer to 30K per annum.

Why so many miles/year on your vehicles?

So in anticipation of future gas prices and economic conditions, I
bought a Vitara, and she bought an Aerio. (we had to buy new
cars anyway, so the payment cost is not so relevant.

Indeed.

So while inflation adjusted prices tell one story, total dollars put in
the gas tank tell another.

Total inflation-adjusted dollars for transport is the ultimate
factor.

(still miss my old VW Rabbit Diesel - 50+ mpg highway,
no ignition noise)

Sweet.

Even my Prius doesn't get that kind of mileage. And the Diesel was
much simpler. Perhaps the compromise is to do Dayton every other year,
or every third year.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:11pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:03 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:

175 dollars for gas

I factored in 3.40 for gas, and some riding
around during the week. The Vitara gets around 28 mpg
highway. I won't be surprised if it costs more
than that by mid-May.

I expect $4/US gallon this summer. $5 wouldn't shock me.

note that even if the price of gas was cut in half
tomorrow, the trip would still cost over $500.
IMHO the amazing thing
is that so many hams from outside the day-trip
area go to Dayton.

Very true. What happens though is that it hits a
trigger point, and a person who might have figured on
going someplace might just reconsider
it's worth.

I can get a lot of equipment for that (that total amount of)
money, and after 2 years, I can afford that IC-7000 I drool over.

Or an Elecraft K3....

It's part of human spending behavior that some
expenditures are viewed so differently than others.
A few dollars here and there adds up but
doesn't seem the same.

The trade off is that I really do enjoy the interaction with other
Hams, the seminars, flea market and ability to talk to the vendors.

I've never been to Dayton. TImonium is the big one around here. But
it's a haul!

Actually,

*US*

gasoline prices aren't really skyrocketing.

What that doesn't show is the impact of changing driving styles.

I used to put less than 10K per year on a vehicle,
now it is closer to 30K per annum.

Why so many miles/year on your vehicles?

My wife does a lot of local travel for her job. Visiting job sites,
doing inspections. Or at least she did. The housing market dried up
around here and she's working one day a week now, so that has decreased.

for myself, I do a bit of travel for work also. It's all on my dime.

So in anticipation of future gas prices and economic conditions, I
bought a Vitara, and she bought an Aerio. (we had to buy new
cars anyway, so the payment cost is not so relevant.

Indeed.

So while inflation adjusted prices tell one story, total dollars put in
the gas tank tell another.

Total inflation-adjusted dollars for transport is the ultimate
factor.

Well, yes and no. The total cost of living has increased significantly.
I'm not talking about the official inflation figures, they aren't
reliable any more. This is just the amount of dollar outlay per month.
Health insurance doubling in a years time, Gas doubling over a few years
time, House escrow account increases of 100 dollars per month.

So while the statistics say we're getting a bargain, ground truth tells
me that I have to reel in costs somewhere. Bargain or not, one has
significantly less money these days after the bills are paid. And
gasoline is one area that I can at least start to control.

(still miss my old VW Rabbit Diesel - 50+ mpg highway,
no ignition noise)
Sweet.

Even my Prius doesn't get that kind of mileage. And the Diesel was
much simpler. Perhaps the compromise is to do Dayton every other year,
or every third year.

Ahh, the Priuii are very cool vehicles. I shoulda known you'd be an
owner of one. On a Ham related topic, have you noticed much electrical
noise from it? I've heard some scuttle that they make some RFI. Don't
know what that is in comparison to a regular gas vehicle, as they can be
noisy also.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:12:21 EDT, wrote:

(still miss my old VW Rabbit Diesel - 50+ mpg highway,
no ignition noise)

Sweet.

Even my Prius doesn't get that kind of mileage. And the Diesel was
much simpler. Perhaps the compromise is to do Dayton every other year,
or every third year.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Luckily diesels are starting to come back to the USA I believe. I (not in the US) have a
VW 1.9 diesel engine using abt 4.5liters/100km average per tank (local roads, traffic
jams, 60miles one way to work every day). That is 52 miles to the gallon. My car is a
bit bigger than the old Rabbit and has over 200.000 miles on it and is over 9 years old.

iwouldntknow wrote:
Luckily diesels are starting to come back to the USA I believe.

Unfortunately, diesel fuel is no longer cheap
compared to gasoline. I saw diesel fuel for $4.20
a gallon today, almost a dollar more than gasoline.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Apr 17, 1:53�pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:11pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:03 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:

I've never been to Dayton. TImonium is the big one around
here. But
it's a haul!

Biggest hamfest I evewr encountered was in Rochester NY - 1978.

Why so many miles/year on your vehicles?

Total inflation-adjusted dollars for transport is the ultimate
factor.

Well, yes and no. The total cost of living has increased
significantly.
I'm not talking about the official inflation figures, they aren't
reliable any more. This is just the amount of dollar outlay per
month.

Remember the 1970s?

Health insurance doubling in a years time, Gas doubling over
a few years
time, House escrow account increases of 100 dollars per month.

So while the statistics say we're getting a bargain, ground truth
tells
me that I have to reel in costs somewhere. Bargain or not, one has
significantly less money these days after the bills are paid. And
gasoline is one area that I can at least start to control.

I would say that what's happening is this: The necessities (house,
medical, transport) are getting more expensive while the luxuries
(computing power, flat-screen TV, plane tickets where you have a lot
of leeway as to destination and time) are getting cheaper. Put
them all together and inflation *seems to be* low. But the mix is
different than it was years ago.

On top of that is the fact that the number of "necessities" keeps
rising. To give an Amateur Radio example, there was a time when
putting up a moderate-sized tower in most areas did not require a
variance or a building permit. A ham-homeowner simply put it up, or at
most went down to the township building, filled out a form and paid a
small fee.

Nowadays in many areas there are much more stringent engineering and
insurance requirements for an Amateur Radio tower. The local
ordinances often consider it a "structure" and the process is much
more complex and costly. So while the price of the tower itself isn't
much more than it used to be, adjusted for inflation, the total price
of owning an *installed* tower has greatly increased.

One more issue: LIfespan of certain items, such as ham rigs. Compared
to most electronic items, it seems to me that ham rigs have a very
long useful lifespan compared to other electronics. Decades rather
than years. Just look at the stuff for sale at Dayton or elsewhere.
What do others think?

Ahh, the Priuii are very cool vehicles. I shoulda known
you'd be an owner of one.

TNX. It's a different sort of vehicle! They are common around here;
summer 2006 there was a long wait for one. Like many cars, a lot
depends on what kind of driving you do and how you drive.

On a Ham related topic, have you noticed much electrical
noise from it? I've heard some scuttle that they make some RFI.
Don't
know what that is in comparison to a regular gas vehicle, as they can be
noisy also.

Can't say; never been mobile on the ham bands in it! But I suspect
that the inverters would make a least some noise.

Still miss the diesel, though. 17 years with the same car; only owner
from showroom to crusher.

73 de Jim, N2EY