In Feb 2009, all TVs will become digital. As a result, analog TV
spectrum will become available.

It will be auctioned off. Chances are it will go to big companies,
making their monopoly even bigger. These frequencies would be better
used if it went to amateur radio, public non-license radio ( like FRS
and CB is now), and small business (such as letting small business
offer commercial radio services).

Alot of innovative applications will result. And it will create jobs
and new businesses that would otherwise not exist. Also, it would
increase public interest and involvement.

If we do nothing, these frequencies will be lost. Lets lobby now.

In ,
typed, for some strange,
unexplained reason:
: In Feb 2009, all TVs will become digital. As a result, analog TV
: spectrum will become available.

Only in the US. Here in the UK it will be 2012 before all analog(ue) TV
goes off.

If your message is aimed at a specific country or group of countries,
please specify them; don't forget this is a worldwide group.

73 Ivor G6URP

wrote in message
...
In Feb 2009, all TVs will become digital. As a result, analog TV
spectrum will become available.

It will be auctioned off. Chances are it will go to big companies,
making their monopoly even bigger. These frequencies would be better
used if it went to amateur radio, public non-license radio ( like FRS
and CB is now), and small business (such as letting small business
offer commercial radio services).

Alot of innovative applications will result. And it will create jobs
and new businesses that would otherwise not exist. Also, it would
increase public interest and involvement.

If we do nothing, these frequencies will be lost. Lets lobby now.

You're about 4 years too late. The original date for the analog broadcast
TV shutdown was in 2006 - so the auctions were actually held before then.
However, Congress extended the date because few people even knew of it.

I imagine those frequencies were all spoken for long before now.

Russ W6OHM
wrote in message
...
In Feb 2009, all TVs will become digital. As a result, analog TV
spectrum will become available.

It will be auctioned off. Chances are it will go to big companies,
making their monopoly even bigger. These frequencies would be better
used if it went to amateur radio, public non-license radio ( like FRS
and CB is now), and small business (such as letting small business
offer commercial radio services).

Alot of innovative applications will result. And it will create jobs
and new businesses that would otherwise not exist. Also, it would
increase public interest and involvement.

If we do nothing, these frequencies will be lost. Lets lobby now.

wrote:

In Feb 2009, all TVs will become digital. As a result, analog TV
spectrum will become available.

It will be auctioned off. Chances are it will go to big companies,
making their monopoly even bigger.

I went looking for discussion on what is likely to happen. Ivor points
out that it will be 2012 before the change is made in the UK, yet the
first article I found is from the UK. Apparently they're actually
thinking about this, studying it, and examining what the best use would
be for the resources. (See http://preview.tinyurl.com/3p3uvo )

US organizations are, too. At
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10349.cfm I found this quote:
Advocacy groups such as Public Knowledge and Consumers Union say the
auction represents the best and last opportunity for large portions of
the U.S. to have a third broadband provider that competes with the cable
and telecom giants. These groups are asking the FCC to require that part
of the auctioned spectrum be sold with so-called open-access rules
attached, meaning the winner of the auction would have to sell wholesale
access to the network to any company that wants it.

These frequencies would be better
used if it went to amateur radio, public non-license radio ( like FRS
and CB is now), and small business (such as letting small business
offer commercial radio services).

Apparently 24 MHz of the available 84 MHz has already been earmarked for
public safety. Is the current allocation of two-way public non-license
or amateur-radio-license spectrum sufficiently saturated to justify
additional allocation? Personally I don't think so, but maybe in urban
areas things are different.

Alot of innovative applications will result. And it will create jobs
and new businesses that would otherwise not exist. Also, it would
increase public interest and involvement.

What innovative applications would you anticipate? I don't see either
commercial or amateur radio services expanding just because they have
additional spectrum. Where's the demand? Who is going to buy radio
service when they already have a cell phone in their hand?

If we do nothing, these frequencies will be lost. Lets lobby now.

It's probably too late to do any effective lobbying on this issue. But
the frequency spectrum won't be "lost"; it will be used somehow. The
question is whether it will be used in the "best way".

Problem is, different people have different ideas of what the "best way"
might be. I don't envy the FCC the policy task of walking the tightrope
between letting market forces decide and placing curbs in place to
prevent "big money" from becoming "bigger money".

73, Steve KB9X

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:13:43 -0400, vshah1010 wrote:

In Feb 2009, all TVs will become digital. As a result, analog TV
spectrum will become available.

It will be auctioned off. Chances are it will go to big companies,
making their monopoly even bigger. These frequencies would be better

This spectrum has already been sold. Except for the 24MHz worth that's
being reserved for public-safety communications.

Some of the new uses have already been implemented. For example,
Verizon's "V-Cast" (video broadcasts to mobile phones) uses the spectrum
formerly occupied by TV channel 55. A number of TV stations have already
closed their analog operations on this channel and adjacent channel 56.

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:13:43 -0400, vshah1010 wrote:

In Feb 2009, all TVs will become digital. As a result, analog TV
spectrum will become available.

It will be auctioned off. Chances are it will go to big companies,
making their monopoly even bigger. These frequencies would be better

This spectrum has already been sold. Except for the 24MHz worth that's
being reserved for public-safety communications.

Some of the new uses have already been implemented. For example,
Verizon's "V-Cast" (video broadcasts to mobile phones) uses the spectrum
formerly occupied by TV channel 55. A number of TV stations have already
closed their analog operations on this channel and adjacent channel 56.


The 50s and 60s channels have already been auctioned. (The
36 MHz of 60s auctioned recently brought about $650M/MHz)
However, the analog turn-off will vacate most of TV Ch 2-6,
and most of 7-13. This is the truly valuable channel space,
and will be fought over tenaciously. (174-216 MHz) There
is also a proposal to allow devices to selectively "seek"
out vacant channels in any given locality to use for low
power applications, without interfering with television.
This works OK with digital TV channels which may be
adjacent, but the problem is that analog LPTV and translator
stations are being allowed to stay on the air indefinitely,
which means that adjacent channels with strange digital
signals filling the bandwidth could spill over causing
interference to an analog TV signal.

The odds of the FCC "giving" any of this spectrum to hams,
or other so-called "citizens" uses are slim since the FCC is
mandated by Congress to auction off all non-public-safety
spectrum recovered from other services.

Rick T. - W7RT

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:24:59 -0400, Rick T wrote:
However, the analog turn-off will vacate most of TV Ch 2-6,
and most of 7-13. This is the truly valuable channel space,
and will be fought over tenaciously. (174-216 MHz)

There will be 40 full-power digital TV stations remaining in channels 2-6
,
not to mention low-power and Class A stations. There has been some talk
of expanding FM radio broadcasting into this band but I don't think it's
very likely.

This band isn't very appealing to other services, because of the large
antennas necessary for effective operation and the prevalence of noise an
d
interference.

Channels 7-13 are solidly TV territory and will not be going to other
services. There will be 452 full-power digital TV stations on these
channels post-transition, and again some number of low-power and Class A
stations. Most TV stations that had the option of running their permanen
t
digital operation in channels 7-13 chose to do so, even if it meant
obsoleting a perfectly good UHF transmitter/antenna. Coverage is better
for a given amount of power than on UHF, and transmitters are more
efficient. (i.e., lower utility bills)

is also a proposal to allow devices to selectively "seek"
out vacant channels in any given locality to use for low
power applications, without interfering with television.
This works OK with digital TV channels which may be
adjacent, but the problem is that analog LPTV and translator
stations are being allowed to stay on the air indefinitely,
which means that adjacent channels with strange digital
signals filling the bandwidth could spill over causing
interference to an analog TV signal.

"...works OK with digital TV channels which may be adjacent..." is under
dispute, with some engineers arguing otherwise. Especially given the
potentially high U/D (undesirable-to-desirable) signal strength ratios.
In an FCC test earlier this year, they also found the devices did a
*really poor* job of detecting which channels were vacant!
(understandable as these devices are likely to have far poorer antennas
than are commonly used on TV sets, especially in the more rural areas
where the TV signals are weaker and larger antennas are more likely to be
in use)

Analog low-power stations do not have a current deadline for digital
conversion. However, the FCC has announced that there *will be* a
deadline. I doubt it will be more than two years into the future. (and
even if it they do get a lot more time, I think many are going to find
themselves forced to convert as fewer viewers are willing to deal with
analog signals)

The odds of the FCC "giving" any of this spectrum to hams, or other
so-called "citizens" uses are slim since the FCC is mandated by Congres
s
to auction off all non-public-safety spectrum recovered from other
services.

Very true.

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:24:59 -0400, Rick T wrote:
However, the analog turn-off will vacate most of TV Ch 2-6,
and most of 7-13. This is the truly valuable channel space,
and will be fought over tenaciously. (174-216 MHz)

There will be 40 full-power digital TV stations remaining in channels 2-6
,
not to mention low-power and Class A stations. There has been some talk
of expanding FM radio broadcasting into this band but I don't think it's
very likely.

This band isn't very appealing to other services, because of the large
antennas necessary for effective operation and the prevalence of noise an
d
interference.

Channels 7-13 are solidly TV territory and will not be going to other
services. There will be 452 full-power digital TV stations on these
channels post-transition, and again some number of low-power and Class A
stations. Most TV stations that had the option of running their permanen
t
digital operation in channels 7-13 chose to do so, even if it meant
obsoleting a perfectly good UHF transmitter/antenna. Coverage is better
for a given amount of power than on UHF, and transmitters are more
efficient. (i.e., lower utility bills)

is also a proposal to allow devices to selectively "seek"
out vacant channels in any given locality to use for low
power applications, without interfering with television.
This works OK with digital TV channels which may be
adjacent, but the problem is that analog LPTV and translator
stations are being allowed to stay on the air indefinitely,
which means that adjacent channels with strange digital
signals filling the bandwidth could spill over causing
interference to an analog TV signal.

"...works OK with digital TV channels which may be adjacent..." is under
dispute, with some engineers arguing otherwise. Especially given the
potentially high U/D (undesirable-to-desirable) signal strength ratios.
In an FCC test earlier this year, they also found the devices did a
*really poor* job of detecting which channels were vacant!
(understandable as these devices are likely to have far poorer antennas
than are commonly used on TV sets, especially in the more rural areas
where the TV signals are weaker and larger antennas are more likely to be
in use)

Analog low-power stations do not have a current deadline for digital
conversion. However, the FCC has announced that there *will be* a
deadline. I doubt it will be more than two years into the future. (and
even if it they do get a lot more time, I think many are going to find
themselves forced to convert as fewer viewers are willing to deal with
analog signals)

The odds of the FCC "giving" any of this spectrum to hams, or other
so-called "citizens" uses are slim since the FCC is mandated by Congres
s
to auction off all non-public-safety spectrum recovered from other
services.

Very true.


Hi Doug.....thanks for your comments.

Well, I count about 60 stations licensed for high-power
digital TV operations nationwide on 7-13.....not a huge
number by any means. Here in Arizona, there are very few
remaining after the transition. The public safety folks,
having failed to take any of the 138-174 spectrum from the
military here (Mainly because of the Army base at Ft.
Huachuca) are now looking at the possibility of getting some
of that 174-216. I doubt that it will happen though.

Yes, there is no deadline yet, and the Commission hasn't
indicated if they will eventually set a firm deadline for
LPTV and Translators. There are a huge number of
translators in northwest Arizona.....at a cost of over
$3,000 each to convert the translators times about 50, plus
the LPTV stuff in the Phoenix and Tucson metro areas. I
think the FCC will allow at least 5 years, if not more,
unless they're in the 60's spectrum. However, they're
mostly already chased out of that area.

Because of the reasons you mentioned, I don't support
allowing other services to access the "white space" between
channels....just too many things that can go wrong and mess
up a signal.....particularly a weak rural signal, and
especially an analog translator channel.

I think the best we hams can hope for is some additional HF
spectrum as shortwave broadcasting slowly dies. Sure would
like to see 30M expanded, as well as a full band at 5 MHz,
and an expanded 20 and 17 M bands. Of course, we still need
to clear 7200-7300 worldwide. Good Luck :)


73,
Rick T. - W7RT

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:35:34 EDT, Rick T wrote:

The public safety folks,
having failed to take any of the 138-174 spectrum from the
military here (Mainly because of the Army base at Ft.
Huachuca) are now looking at the possibility of getting some
of that 174-216. I doubt that it will happen though.

You and I both know, Rick, that one of the main reasons will be that
"The Big M" (ham content: owner of Yaesu) will not be interested in
producing two-way radio equipment in that band because of the
relatively small sales volume as compared to their new whiz-bang 700
MHz systems that will require ten times as many sites for the same
coverage.

Another rant expelled....
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net