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Scotty, I need more power
Why not just do it right to start with? My gas appliances (furnace, stove,
hot water) are fueled with propane in an underground tank. Yes, propane is expensive. When I moved to this house my first major purchase was a 10kw Guardian standby generator hooked to the propane tank. Within 5 days after the thing was installed, the power went out.... The generator has been a Godsend out here. Howard N7SO upstate NY |
Scotty, I need more power
Howard Lester wrote:
Why not just do it right to start with? My gas appliances (furnace, stove, hot water) are fueled with propane in an underground tank. Yes, propane is expensive. When I moved to this house my first major purchase was a 10kw Guardian standby generator hooked to the propane tank. Within 5 days after the thing was installed, the power went out.... The generator has been a Godsend out here. You should be able to run heating and a diesel generator from the same tank if you choose a boiler which runs on diesel grade rather than kerosene.. g4jci |
Scotty, I need more power
On 11/11/2011 20 04, Phil Kane wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:12:31 EST, Jeffrey wrote: Both propane, gasoline and diesel require electrical service to run the pumps. And tanks that need to be refilled. And good luck getting a permit for any decent-sized tank for those fuels in any residential area. I'm talking about 96-hour capacity, not a five-gallon Jerry can. If one is lucky enough to live in an area which is served by natural gas, a generator powered by that fuel would be an economical alternative without the necessity of have a fuel dump as part of the yard. The outfit found at the url below can show you how to inexpensively convert a gasoline generator to natural gas or, if you aren't in an area where that fuel is available, to propane. http://www.propane-generators.com/ 73, Dave Heil K8MN |
Scotty, I need more power
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:51:26 EST, Dave Heil
wrote: If one is lucky enough to live in an area which is served by natural gas, a generator powered by that fuel would be an economical alternative without the necessity of have a fuel dump as part of the yard. Not only that, natural gas is lighter-than-air so if there is a leak, there's less of a problem than LPG which is heavier than air and would accumulate until it finds a source of ignition and blooie! A friend of mine learned that the hard way when a leaky BBQ bottle caused a fire that burned down half his house including a library of special books and writings that he had inherited from his scholar father. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net |
Scotty, I need more power
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Scotty, I need more power
On 11/12/2011 7:23 PM, Bill Horne wrote:
Since my furnace and hot water heater both use natural gas, I'm interested in using*that* to fuel a generator, but (as I wrote before), I'm looking for cost figures that will help me to make an informed decision about the most cost-effective fuel. This is, of course, a complicated calculation: natural gas is more convenient, but limits the genset to one location. Diesel is (so I've heard) less expensive than gas, but the genset will cost more initially. If you are reading this, and*YOU* have bought or used any of the options I've listed, please make your opinion known. I converted a 1967 Dodge 1/2 ton pick up truck with a slant 6 cylinder engine to run dual fuel. Propane and Gasoline. It came in quite handy while dealing with the manufactured gas crisis. "No gasoline? No problem, I'll fill it with propane." I currently own a Honda 4500 watt genset. That's my "portable". I'll keep it running on gasoline as designed. It runs for about 4 hours with a full tank and an 80% load. For the record, I run premium grade gasoline and add Stabil to it. The Empire 12 KW genset with the Wisconsin VF4D engine runs on gas, but I've decided to convert it to natural gas as the standby set for the house. (Looks like the conversion setup for that will cost $277.) But it will run continuously and I don't have to deal with fuel storage. At my previous location, fuel storage was an issue, I had to maintain about 10 each 5 gallon cans. Which included dumping them into the car periodically and refilling them with fresh gasoline. My question would be "In the event of a widespread failure, what is going to go away first? Gasoline supplies, piped natural gas or trucked Propane." And decide which fuel to use based on that. For what it's worth, the AT&T sites I used to go to (Which were sold to American Tower) used diesel generator sets. And one other tidbit. I refuse to use Arco Gasoline. It tends to dissolve rubber bits and gaskets in generator engines. Jeff-1.0 wa6fwi -- "Everything from Crackers to Coffins" |
Scotty, I need more power
"Bill Horne" wrote
This is, of course, a complicated calculation: natural gas is more convenient, but limits the genset to one location. Diesel is (so I've heard) less expensive than gas, but the genset will cost more initially. If you are reading this, and *YOU* have bought or used any of the options I've listed, please make your opinion known. Bill, in my case I am forced to use propane because there are no natural-gas lines where I live. Supposedly natural gas is far cheaper, but as Jeff said, its supply to your house can be cut off in a disaster. For the record, my 10kw Guardian generator and transfer box cost $4.1K installed. This was done 2 years ago. It connects to the line of the existing 500 gallon underground propane tank. When the electricity goes out, the generator comes on automatically in about 20 seconds. No flashlights are required, and you don't have to get out of a warm bed to find any switches or matches. Howard N7SO |
Scotty, I need more power
On 11/11/2011 10:12 AM, Jeffrey Angus wrote:
The biggest problem is the exhaust. If you can get a larger muffler in addition to the one that it comes with, that's a step in the right direction. The next problem is mechanical noise. Most open frame generators sound like a blender full of rocks. With the Honda "I" series generators (Like the ef3000i) you are correct that the largest noise is exhaust. With many "Contractor" type generators, like the 300 dollar 3500 watt job down at pep boys, it's mechanical noise plus exhaust. I saw a demo of a Yahama EU-2400i one day (This is a true 2,000 watt inverter generator 2000 continous and 2400 peak) This was at a rally so there was rather a lot of crowd noise to deal with but. Though I could hear the thing at idle... the salesman could not (The 1200-i I could not hear at idle) as you might safely assume, Many Ham radio operators are used to "listening through noise" add to that 25 years on the police dispatch desk. At half load we did not have to raise our voices At full load, With one foot literally on top of the generator, it got loud enough that we had to speak up. Think about this "noise" level.. And recall we were close enough to FEEL the exhaust.. I've not done this kind of test with the HONDA but the spec sheet puts them ONE DB louder.... Just one. -- Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business. ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4614 - Release Date: 11/13/11 |
Scotty, I need more power
On 11/11/2011 3:04 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:12:31 EST, Jeffrey wrote: Both propane, gasoline and diesel require electrical service to run the pumps. And tanks that need to be refilled. And good luck getting a permit for any decent-sized tank for those fuels in any residential area. I'm talking about 96-hour capacity, not a five-gallon Jerry can. My class A holds 70 gallons of gasoline, Some Diesel Pushers hold 2 or 3 hundred gallons. In both cases a 5,000 watt generator burns less than 1 per hour at normal loads. Plus, unless the roads are blocked, if you have smaller containers (I don't recommend jerry cans but Eagle Gas cans are good) you can travel to where the pumps pump.. The first time I went out for a Generator and fuel that was only about a one hour drive at freeway speeds (60 miles) That was blackout 2003 as I recall. I would love to get that generator back too.. It grew legs amd walked off on me. If anyone sees a GENRAC 1000 (1KW fully enclosed traditional generator,, by the way this one compares both in weight, size, fuel consumption and sound with the Honda EF-2000i) with my call on it.... Let me (And the Redford Michigan Police) know please. -- Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business. ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4614 - Release Date: 11/13/11 |
Scotty, I need more power
On 11/14/2011 1:27 AM, John Davis wrote:
I saw a demo of a Yahama EU-2400i one day (This is a true 2,000 watt inverter generator 2000 continous and 2400 peak) This was at a rally so there was rather a lot of crowd noise to deal with but. Though I could hear the thing at idle... the salesman could not (The 1200-i I could not hear at idle) as you might safely assume, Many Ham radio operators are used to "listening through noise" add to that 25 years on the police dispatch desk. At half load we did not have to raise our voices At full load, With one foot literally on top of the generator, it got loud enough that we had to speak up. Think about this "noise" level.. And recall we were close enough to FEEL the exhaust.. I've not done this kind of test with the HONDA but the spec sheet puts them ONE DB louder.... Just one. Please pass along any URL's that show side-by-side comparisons of the sound output of the various generators in the "5KW" class. I'd also like to see a chart that compares sound levels with common sources: "quiet as a church mouse" up to "Chain saw", and four or five steps in between. For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if my perceptions match reality. TIA. Bill, W1AC -- Bill Horne (Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly) |
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