From: "an_old_friend" on Fri, Oct 27 2006 4:15pm

wrote:
wrote:
On 27 Oct 2006 10:28:38 -0700, "
From: on Thurs, Oct 26 2006 3:36am

not if that life belong to a NoCode ham it seems

There's been NO real input on hams saving lives by "CW" lately.
"Lately" being in the last few decades. The best the pro-coders
can come up with is some small-displacement ship going down
somewhere in the UK territory on New Year's Eve...NOT doing
the "CW" comms thing ON ham bands.

I love that story that it is trotted out is just a measure of how
desperate they are

That supposedly happened several years ago. But, it's
about the only "proof" the pro-code-testers have for
"enforcement" of the code test. Too bad they can't
effectively argue their case to the United States Coast
Guard. The USCG quit monitoring the 500 KHz inter-
national maritime distress frequency about the same time.


Army field radio was already dropping radiotelegraphy comms
DURING the active phase of the Korean War (i.e., prior to 1953).
Some of it was used in southeast Asia in the following decade.

really? are you tlaking about just local stuff or long haul korea to
stateside stuff geting a better feel for the timeline I was under the
impression that army pretty weel stay with cw/code through most of
korea then switched pretty quickly

Really. The "medium-haul" radio comms (50 to 200 miles, roughly)
was handled by the more-mobile AN/GRC-26 (hut on a deuce and a
half truck towing a MG set) where the TTY was favored for its
already-written messages followed by simultaneous voice. The
bulk of land-to-land messaging was handled by the "TRCs" or
transportable radio relay sets carrying four multiplexed voice
channels. Each voice channel could handle four TTY circuits.
All of that was left-over stuff from World War II.

Short-range comms were handled almost exclusively by FM voice
from the AN/PRC-6 (2nd generation HT, introduced just before
1950) and the manpacks ranging from SCR-300 (original "walkie-
talkie" of WWII) to the AN/PRC-8 through -10 (in the three
overlapping "line" bands just introduced). Vehicular radios
were a whole series of "VRCs" now arranged in the "line"
bands at high-HF to low-VHF running voice FM. Many of those
VRCs had become known as "tank radios" of WWII under their
"SCR-" IDs.

Fans of the AN/GRC-9 would be disappointed in the LACK of use
of that WWII relic and its arm-wasting manual generator. It
operated only at low-HF. Tactically, it was a throwback to
pre-WWII days of military radio and didn't suit the rapidly-
shifting field tactics in Korea.

Long-haul radio comms in Korea (beyond 200 miles) was almost
exclusively HF TTY plus all the wireline TTY (land permitting).
Comms to FEC Hq in Tokyo was a mix of VHF radio relay, HF TTY
(direct), and wireline (including underwater cable to cross
the sea). Some of that was encrypted TTY using a second-
generation system similar to the rolling-code "SIGABA" of the
second world war times. [never cracked until the USS Pueblo
was captured nearly intact]

In the early 1960s and the heating up of the Southeast Asia
Live Fire Exercise, the AN/PRC-25 channel-tuned VHF FM voice
portable made its debut. The "Prick-25" became the radio of
choice for land field units. All solid-state except for the
final PA, a battery-filament tube. A few years later the
AN/PRC-77 was introduced with ALL-solid-state active devices.
Over 120,000 PRC-25s and PRC-77s were manufactured. The
PRC-8 to PRC-10 series was also used but the high turnover
in personnel made the PRC-25 favored due to easy operation.

VHF and UHF radio relay was the major comms carrier in SE
Asia during the Vietnam War. Multi-channel voice, each voice
channel could handle several multiplexed TTY circuits. Most
firebases were identifiable by the antenna structures for
those radio relay sets. Radio relay on VHF-UHF was a huge
operation but never well-publicized in amateur radio mags.

Vehicular comms were still done by the VRCs in Vietnam but,
the lack of terrain for effective armor limited that to the
supplies vehicles. Long-haul comms to Japan and Hawaii
Hqs were done by HF TTY, either direct or relayed through
Manila or Okinawa. [Far East Command Hq was transferred
from Tokyo to Fort Shafter, HI, about 1958 although there
were relays (HF TTY) through USAF-maintained HF radio near
Tokyo to link to the States; USAF took over the USA HF
radio facilities there in 1963]

Experiments with satellite commsats began during the Vietnam
War but those were largely just experiments. They got PR
because satcomm was new and noteworthy to news editors,
seemed exciting with big, big antenna dishes, etc. Satcomm
ops never took off until after the Vietnam War was over
in 1973. Once the satcomms' relay was possible, the use of
HF for long-haul circuits was relegated to a standby role.

It's a much-ballyhooed MYTH that "CW" was essential to
radio comms even during WWII. [maybe it was due to
Hollywood liking the mystique of morsemen at their keys
with headphones on and doing the thousand-yard stare?]
The major long-haul comms circuits were TTY even then.
In the electronics trade shows of the early 1970s, the
Teletype Corporation was displaying a gold-plated TTY
terminal as the half-millionth! The already-WRITTEN
messages were always preferred by field commanders for
accuracy and reliability. An added plus was that TTY
could be encrypted ON-LINE when needs be, even for the
USN as far back as 1940. The famous Command Sets of
WWII aircraft were used primarily in voice mode, by the
pilots; was very little time to have the radio op write
down messages and bring them up to the cockpit; radio
ops on B-17s and B-24s were basically gunners first,
radiomen second. Liason Sets were seldom used and then
only when the air was "peaceful" over friendly territory.


Then explain the prevailing attitude in *here* (and you
are one of them) about "only" licensed amateurs "should"
comment about amateur radio regulations? :-)

and why Dee and dave and Steve even go so far as to claim I a ham
should not be allowed to coment on the CW rules

Sigh...well they've "denied" doing so, keep asking "where did I
[they] write such words?" They didn't say so outright but the
INTENT was plain as day at noontime.

funy how if they don't really mean that and Morse Code makes them such
great comicating that they are so consistantly misunderstood

The morsemen in here have RANK, STATUS, PRIVILEGE and
Vanity (note the 1x2 calls seen in here)...lobbied for
by the much-older hams who were after rank, status,
privilege due to morsemanship. These morsemen are the
"best" and they don't hesitate to tell everyone so.
They demand obediance to their wishes...which is to
maintain their rank, status, privilege due to morseman-
ship...and their perceived ability ('nobility?') to
look down on all the no-code-test advocates as if they
are somehow "better." AS IF... :-(

Funny how operating abilities of the 1930s isn't
"appreciated" in the 2000s. [morsemen are quaintly out
of date]



Feel free to "correct me." :-) The olde-tymers try to do
that a LOT in here... :-)

The dam recreation area in the L.A. San Fernando Valley has
a very large turn-out most every weekend here. At Apollo Field
there can be (easy) 50 R-C flyers there. [it is the major location
for flying in the huge Los Angeles area] MOST R-C flyers are
a considerate bunch and TRY to avoid interference. But, not all
R-C units are frequency-mobile. The emphasis is on the
MODELS not the radios...the FLYING (for model aircraft) rather
than the "operating."

that they try but it is secondary the abilty of the RC gruop is largely
depneant In my expernce on just how the local frequecny coordinators
are able to get people on to lots of freqs in fringe area where the
shop are feww and large college is around somed ay you do have 50
plane trying to operate on 4 or 5 frq
in larger area the hobby shop and tend in placing orders for stuff to
spread the new folks around an advantage yYOU get in your area or would
around SF but out between hobby shop things get weird

(right now trying to duck being given the job of trying to coordinate
the freqs round here Indeed I often spend a lot helping recrytal and
tune the units

Frequency coordination is ALWAYS a problem in ANY radio service.
It gets worse when there are thousands of users in a relatively
small locale. The FCC long ago gave up on trying to coordinate
the PLMRS users and delegated that to the individual private
user groups...public safety, railroad, businesses, etc.

It didn't help the model hobby industry to come out with fixed-
frequency R-C Tx and Rx in order to sell them at lower cost...
and makes them lighter (important for flying models). The trend
now is to have frequency-synthesis techniques on receivers; it
is easier to that in transmitter boxes (plenty of room, not a
weight problem). Considerate modelers will be aware of who is
using what channel, do the "flag" display thing (if appropriate)
and try not to cause another model any catastrophy. [a model
helo can cost up to $500, hardly a toy...anyone who deliberately
interferes with one causing a crash will have the helo owner
physically confronting the interferer...not so usual with an
amateur radio interferer]

One problem with frequency coordination is the territoriality
of thinking that a coordinate frequency is ONLY for the intended
use and those not WITH a coordinator shouldn't be there. In
model flying that would be the casual "park flyer" who is not a
local club member. In amateur radio it is some casual user
unaware of the "authorized" nature of coordinate frequencies;
yet the FCC allows all the OPTION of using any allocated mode
in any allocated band. The FCC catches that with the "do not
interfere with another user" requirement common to every radio
service. Problem is, interference still happens. :-)

wrote:

It's a much-ballyhooed MYTH that "CW" was essential to
radio comms even during WWII.

Was this a myth, Len?


http://www.eham.net/articles/15064

wrote:
wrote:

It's a much-ballyhooed MYTH that "CW" was essential to
radio comms even during WWII.

Was this a myth, Len?

Naw, Jim. Len's just made another of his numerous factual errors.


http://www.eham.net/articles/15064

Dave K8MN

wrote:
wrote:

It's a much-ballyhooed MYTH that "CW" was essential to
radio comms even during WWII.

Was this a myth, Len?

http://www.eham.net/articles/15064

Oh my, a nice emotional tribute to a father by his son, son
reprinting his dad's poem.

Tell us, Mighty Macho Morseman Miccolis, what YOU did in
World War II in the service of your country?

Tell us what you did in ANY military branch. Tell us what
you did as a civilian for the government.

Can you? I don't think so.

All you can do is crib from OTHERS' websites.

The MAJOR communications modes of World War II were RTTY and
VOICE. RTTY on HF for the brunt of messaging...and to handle
encrypted traffic. Voice between aircraft, between ground
vehicles, between foot soldiers, between all three of those
with the other two.

OOK CW was used, yes, but it was mainly by the USN. You
seem oblivious to the fact that cruiser class and heavier
used RTTY for command traffic and voice 'TBS' since 1940.
Destroyer class and submarines used RTTY later in World
War II (see a display of the 'SIGABA' at the USS Pompanito
floating museum in the Bay Area...a TTY terminal modified
for on-line encryption-decryption...the Pompanito is a
submarine). SOME OOK CW was used in the Pacific Theater
by the AAF during bombing raids over Japan...but the major
comms were still VOICE between formation aircraft, plus
the comms between them and "little friends" (P-51 escorts)
all the way to and from Japan. SOME OOK CW was used on
aircraft ferry missions, handled by specialist radiomen,
but the single-engine aircraft made do with just voice.

If you are going to babble about little portable 'QRP' rigs
(like the mishandled 'Pogo Stick' and the "Angry-Nine"), I'll
just toss in the first handie-talkie (available in early
1940) and the famous SCR-300 walkie-talkie, the backpack
VHF radio used first in Italy then in Europe since 1943.
VOICE, Jimmie, the instant stuff not hampered by having to
write on message forms for the local ground commander to
see...who has to compose a message to send back in reply.
You just don't have ANY training in foot soldiering so quit
trying to sound off like you "know" stuff in an era where
you didn't exist.

In the history of "Magic," the breaking of the Japanese
high-level codes of 1940 to 1945, how did you think the
intercepts got to Op-20-GY in DC? How do you think the
decrypted intercepts were disseminated? By TTY, encrypted
TTY for security. The Navy and the Army did that, the USN
for HF radio relay, USA for wireline and terminal equipment.

Do you really believe a rolling tank is a good place to
send-receive morse code? Try it some time. Ride a tank.
Ride a Bradley. Ride a true OFF-ROAD SUV and do it. In
World War II the armor units used VOICE. Wasn't no time to
futz around playing morseman when some enemy in another tank
is out to destroy you. You just don't have time for retries
in such situations.

Did you think fighter pilots in a furball were going to
do air-air comms in morse? At 200 to 300 Knots airspeed?
You'd be nuts to think so. The medium and heavy bombers had
gunners-first, specialties-second. The radio ops on B-17s
and B-24s were mainly gunners, sometimes having to replace
regular gunners in other positions. Bombardiers and
navigators (both commissioned officers) had to do double-
duty as gunners. The pilots relied on VOICE over their
Command Sets to keep a formation intact.

You can go over to the Army Center for Military History
website and read a bunch of documents on land signals
operations, find out that TTY was still a mainstay for
written comms after 1942, VOICE for the field telephones,
VHF-UHF radio relay for both (even DURING the famous
Battle of the Bulge)...check out the land war in the
Pacific and find out much the same.

Even DURING World War II the days of manual morse code
were beginning to diminish. It went completely out for
comms in less than a half century afterwards. But, not to
worry, for radio history you can always go to the ARRL and
get THEIR version, the one glamorizing beeping during
World War II. Was the ARRL *IN* WW II? Too long ago for
just about all the Newington staff and Directors. YOU
were never in the military service so you just don't know
squat about the time you didn't exist.

As always to you, ByteBrothers famous phrase invoked.