On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:41:53 UTC, "gkb" wrote:

10 wpm novice, 20 wpm general and 35 wpm for extra class.
Yes, that's the ticket, back to the past. As if enough people weren't
abandoning ham radio already. I have never thought that code was
essential. It is just another "hoop" that someone has to jump
through. Once I passed the code test, I never used it again. Get
real, this is 2006, and with all the innovations on the radio
spectrum, code is the last thing on people's minds.


--
"What do you mean there's no movie?"

On 9/26/06 2:50 PM, in article g40vCXBzNU8x-pn2-xidDCXv10dGz@localhost,
"Count Floyd" CountFloyd@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater wrote:

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:41:53 UTC, "gkb" wrote:

10 wpm novice, 20 wpm general and 35 wpm for extra class.
Yes, that's the ticket, back to the past. As if enough people weren't
abandoning ham radio already. I have never thought that code was
essential. It is just another "hoop" that someone has to jump
through. Once I passed the code test, I never used it again. Get
real, this is 2006, and with all the innovations on the radio
spectrum, code is the last thing on people's minds.


If there is ever a serious emergency, including no commercial
communications, guys like you who can't build a simple transmitter and
companion receiver, and can't do code, will be the first to scream for help.

What makes you think people are abandoning ham radio? I don't see that at
all, but I do see a reduction in new hams. But...... What goes around will
come around. Ham radio will grow again if the ARRL will quit mucking it up
with their friggin yuppy, elitist attitude.

Don

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:02:15 UTC, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/26/06 2:50 PM, in article g40vCXBzNU8x-pn2-xidDCXv10dGz@localhost,
"Count Floyd" CountFloyd@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater wrote:

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:41:53 UTC, "gkb" wrote:

10 wpm novice, 20 wpm general and 35 wpm for extra class.
Yes, that's the ticket, back to the past. As if enough people weren't
abandoning ham radio already. I have never thought that code was
essential. It is just another "hoop" that someone has to jump
through. Once I passed the code test, I never used it again. Get
real, this is 2006, and with all the innovations on the radio
spectrum, code is the last thing on people's minds.


If there is ever a serious emergency, including no commercial
communications, guys like you who can't build a simple transmitter and
companion receiver, and can't do code, will be the first to scream for help.

Where did you get the part that I cannot build a radio? I simply said
that I do not use code anymore! I have built many radios, repaired
them and use them to this day! This attitude is typical of
old-timers, and I am 54 myself! How may radios have you built pal?

What makes you think people are abandoning ham radio? I don't see
that at
all, but I do see a reduction in new hams. But...... What goes around will
come around. Ham radio will grow again if the ARRL will quit mucking it up
with their friggin yuppy, elitist attitude.

I agree with you on the ARRL! They are the ones who constantly keep
pushing for "code" requirements to be raised! Check the figures on
hams around the country. At a recent South Florida hamfest, it seemed
that I was the youngest guy there!
Don



--
"What do you mean there's no movie?"

Count Floyd CountFloyd@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater wrote:
Yes, that's the ticket, back to the past. As if enough people weren't
abandoning ham radio already. I have never thought that code was
essential. It is just another "hoop" that someone has to jump
through. Once I passed the code test, I never used it again. Get
real, this is 2006, and with all the innovations on the radio
spectrum, code is the last thing on people's minds.

Well, if that's the case, why not test them on use of the new innovations?

How about making them demonstrate competence operating five different
modes of their choice? They can choose between HF SSB, VHF/UHF FM, CW,
SSTV, fax, RTTY, packet, what have you. That way folks who want to learn
code and might use code have an advantage, but folks who can type 130 wpm
also have an advantage...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:46:20 UTC, (Scott Dorsey)
wrote:

Count Floyd CountFloyd@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater wrote:
Yes, that's the ticket, back to the past. As if enough people weren't
abandoning ham radio already. I have never thought that code was
essential. It is just another "hoop" that someone has to jump
through. Once I passed the code test, I never used it again. Get
real, this is 2006, and with all the innovations on the radio
spectrum, code is the last thing on people's minds.

Well, if that's the case, why not test them on use of the new innovations?

How about making them demonstrate competence operating five different
modes of their choice? They can choose between HF SSB, VHF/UHF FM, CW,
SSTV, fax, RTTY, packet, what have you. That way folks who want to learn
code and might use code have an advantage, but folks who can type 130 wpm
also have an advantage...
--scott
Scott,
I agree with you! It is organizations like ARRL who continue to
insist on Code! Keep up with the times and test over what is current
and actually being used. I have a restored 1940 Chrysler but I also
have a 2005 PT Cruiser with A/C and all the options. I enjoy the
1940, but I would not take it on a cross-country trip.

--
"What do you mean there's no movie?"

Count Floyd CountFloyd@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:46:20 UTC, (Scott Dorsey)
wrote:

How about making them demonstrate competence operating five different
modes of their choice? They can choose between HF SSB, VHF/UHF FM, CW,
SSTV, fax, RTTY, packet, what have you. That way folks who want to learn
code and might use code have an advantage, but folks who can type 130 wpm
also have an advantage...

I agree with you! It is organizations like ARRL who continue to
insist on Code! Keep up with the times and test over what is current
and actually being used. I have a restored 1940 Chrysler but I also
have a 2005 PT Cruiser with A/C and all the options. I enjoy the
1940, but I would not take it on a cross-country trip.

Well, the argument is that you have to do _something_ to ensure that people
licensed are competent operators and have some usable skills. I think the
code requirement is not the best way of doing that, but it's better than
nothing. The only alternative I ever seen proposed is just that, nothing.

So, I am in favor of dropping the code requirement, IF it can be replaced
with something else that helps ensure licensed operators are competent and
skilled.
--scott

But then, I _would_ take a 1940 Chrysler cross-country.
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:34:17 UTC, (Scott Dorsey)
wrote:

Count Floyd CountFloyd@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:46:20 UTC, (Scott Dorsey)
wrote:

How about making them demonstrate competence operating five different
modes of their choice? They can choose between HF SSB, VHF/UHF FM, CW,
SSTV, fax, RTTY, packet, what have you. That way folks who want to learn
code and might use code have an advantage, but folks who can type 130 wpm
also have an advantage...

I agree with you! It is organizations like ARRL who continue to
insist on Code! Keep up with the times and test over what is current
and actually being used. I have a restored 1940 Chrysler but I also
have a 2005 PT Cruiser with A/C and all the options. I enjoy the
1940, but I would not take it on a cross-country trip.

Well, the argument is that you have to do _something_ to ensure that people
licensed are competent operators and have some usable skills. I think the
code requirement is not the best way of doing that, but it's better than
nothing. The only alternative I ever seen proposed is just that, nothing.

So, I am in favor of dropping the code requirement, IF it can be replaced
with something else that helps ensure licensed operators are competent and
skilled.
--scott

But then, I _would_ take a 1940 Chrysler cross-country.

Scott,
I took the 1940 Royal Coupe on a mini-cross country trip here in
Florida, managed 60-65 with the overdrive, the original factory AM
radio pulling in at least 10 states, remember those days! Got about
19-21mpg with the old flathead 6, but the 2/60 A/C wasn't really up to
snuff. Once I opened the cowl vent and the vent windows turned all
the way in on us, it became tolerable. Waiting for the winter months
here in Florida to really enjoy the old car.
"What do you mean there's no movie?"

"Count Floyd" CountFloyd@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater wrote in
news:g40vCXBzNU8x-pn2-xidDCXv10dGz@localhost:

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:41:53 UTC, "gkb" wrote:

10 wpm novice, 20 wpm general and 35 wpm for extra class.
Yes, that's the ticket, back to the past. As if enough people weren't
abandoning ham radio already. I have never thought that code was
essential. It is just another "hoop" that someone has to jump
through. Once I passed the code test, I never used it again. Get
real, this is 2006, and with all the innovations on the radio
spectrum, code is the last thing on people's minds.


Dumbing it down cheapened the license, making being a radio amateur
nothing special. No wonder they leaving.

SC

Slow Code wrote:
Dumbing it down cheapened the license, making being a radio amateur
nothing special. No wonder they leaving.


I'll bet that most of the folks "leaving" are simply not renewing being
SK. Code is in a way a dying art quite literally. Which is a shame.

We have to face it, this hobby doesn't attract a lot of new blood and
the existing stock is rapidly growing older. The advantage to me is
that I can find old ham equipment at estate sales for next to nothing
but that's not what I'm posting about..

I don't think things are all that "unfair" with the maximum code speed
we currently test being 5 WPM. Of course that's what I got tested at
so you can charge bias if you want. I currently don't operate CW (heck,
I don't operate at all right now) but all that spectrum space in the
lower part of the bands is starting to beckon. I've got a code
practice program and I work on my code from time to time so maybe
someday...

So where do I fall in this debate? I certainly don't favor the removal
of the code requirement for all license classes. Extra's surely need
to be tested at the current 5 WPM. But the fact remains that the
interest in this hobby as shown by the decline in the number of
licenses needs some attention.

We don't need to "dumb" down the hobby to get more folks in it, but we
do need to bring the requirements into the current age. Before the
advent of the personal computer 20 years ago, it would have been very
expensive to set up an automated CW send and receive station, but now
you can do it for next to nothing. One can actually send and receive
CW without ever learning it and get transmission rates much faster than
just about anybody can copy by ear, just hook up your PC to the rig
load the software and voila, the no code licensee is sending and
receiving at 25 WPM the day after he failed the 5 WPM test.

On the other hand, you guys that struggled to get their code speed up
to 20 WPM so they could get their Extra have my respect. I understand
that lowering that requirement seems like we are dumbing down the
hobby, but I hope you can understand that like AM, CW is being replaced
by other modes that you and your generation have pioneered.

My greatest fear is that the FCC will totally do away with code in it's
testing requirements, which will logically lead to a mass spectrum
reassignment to make more room for voice and we will likely loose our
valuable spectrum space in the process. But once the last license goes
to SK what's to stop the FCC from giving it all away?

May code never die, there are times it's the only option, but we have
to keep the hobby relevant or it will all go away when the hobby dies.

-= Bob =-
KC4UAI

wrote in message
oups.com...
I don't think things are all that "unfair" with the maximum code speed
we currently test being 5 WPM.

I don't think the code require is necessarily "unfair" somehow, but it does
seem awfully "arbitrary" these days. In *today's* world, it's just one mode
of many, and a rather unpopular one at that.

So where do I fall in this debate? I certainly don't favor the removal
of the code requirement for all license classes. Extra's surely need
to be tested at the current 5 WPM.

If we're going to make people show a certain commitment to amateur radio
before giving them advance privileges -- reasonable enough --, to me it seems
that the study should be of something more people are likely to use... say,
error correction coding theory, or modulator design or something. Or maybe
something even more practical such as demonstrating the ability to perform
link planning (antenna selection, power selection, etc.). I imagine one of
the reasons CW testing remains is because it is so easy to test compared to
those options.

I think I'm pretty much in agreement with you... 5 WPM is not an unreasonable
barrier to entry, and I don't particular oppose keeping it around, but I do
think it seems awfully arbitrary, and this refelcts somewhat poorly on hams as
a group trying to present themselves as modern and professional.

---Joel Kolstad