"Bob Brock" wrote:

And that was my point. If it reaches the stage where radio shack
(or Wal-Mart) has jumped on the band wagon, we may need to worry
about overpopulating the bands.

I just simply do not see it happening. Most RatShacks are too small to carry
a wide range of ham gear. Furthermore, the per-capita number of hams in most
areas is too small.

Certain RatShacks may do ok selling ham gear, but as a whole? I doubt it.

Heck, how much demand is there for RatShack's selling of FRS and CB Gear?
Not very much, I believe, based on the very limited (if any) selection I've
seen in the 4 stores I've frequented over the past few years.

73
kh6hz

robert casey wrote:

you'll find the sales people woefully short on product knowledge.

That's been the case for as long as I can remember, since the 70's. The
term "sales droid" was coined with Radio Shack in mind.

When Cincinnati had one Radio Shack store, the store manager actually
knew something about parts that he carried. The folks in the Lafayette,
Allied and Olson stores had a number of people who were knowledgeable.

A couple of the electronic distributors I worked for had product
managers who knew several lines inside and out. They also hired inside
telephone sales people and counter people who were very knowledgeable
about components. At one of them, the sales manager, two of the outside
salesmen, three of the four inside sales people and two of the counter
men were hams.

the moment, RadShack is like a cellular phone store which pushes
batteries.

"Whatever you wanted, we have a cell phone for you!"

Yep. The time before my last trip, I went in for wire wrap #30 wire.
It is great for winding impedance matching transformers on binocular
ferrite cores--much better than enamel wire. The salesman told me that
he didn't think they carried it. I went to the wall and grabbed it.
He then attempted to interest me in a cell phone. When I told him that
I wasn't interested, he began offering batteries.

This last trip was for the F connectors. Again I received a pitch on
cell phones and batteries.

When Radio Shack made a decision to push amateur radio gear ten or
fifteen years back, it did so mostly with Radio Shack branded equipment
which was short on features and rather shoddily made. It pushed a few
2m and 70cm FM HT's and mobile transceivers and a few niche market
rigs like the low power 10m transceivers. The sales people were,
again, woefully short on product knowledge.


Their 2m hand held was actually decent. I have one. Not as rugged as
an old Motorola HT220, though. User interface wasn't that great, but
the Icom IC-02AT was worse. The radio Shack rig did had an excellent
tight band receiver front end. Less intermod issues.

You're correct. The 2m mobile rigs were not as good as the one hand
held transceiver. RadShack also carried a number of brand name 2m and
70cm antennas along with Radio Shack branded antennas. The fact
remained that if one went into a Radio Shack store with questions about
any of the amateur radio equipment, it was highly unlikely to find a
single sales person who had 1) the right answer or 2) any answer other
than "I don't know". I contrast that to the guys at Circuit City stores
I've visited. The sales people seem to have had good product
knowledge training.


Dave K8MN

KH6HZ wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote:

I disagree, Mike. Radio Shack had its roots in selling amateur equipment
when it was a Boston firm decades back.
[...]
If Radio decided to sell a wide variety of amateur radio equipment of
assorted brands and it gave adequate sales training to
its staff, it'd be a big player.

I honestly doubt it.

There's a way for Radio Shack to put the "radio" back in its name.
Right now it is a company in need of a purpose. If it doesn't change,
it is going to disappear or be reincarnated as a bunch of battery and
cellular phone kiosks in malls.

Ham gear is such a niche market, it isn't cost effective for Radio Shack to
offer it at the individual store level. The per-capita number of hams simply
doesn't make it viable. There's little reason to carry a $1000+ product
(say, a decent HF radio) when you *might* sell 1 a year, if you're lucky.

Right. Read on for a way to accomplish it.

Sure, in some markets, where there is a densely populated ham concentration,
Radio Shack may do good. Or, perhaps offering products mail-order they might
do okay.

The company has the ability to do both. What it lacks is management
with the will and vision to set it up and a good training program for
salespeople. RadShack would do well to hire hams as sales people.

Would they be able to compete with Yaesu, Kenwood, et al with their own
product line? Again, I doubt it.

They don't have to. All they'd need do is offer those brands. They
could include some RadShack brand items if they chose to.

Will they be able to compete price-wise
with the large mail-order discount places? Again, I seriously doubt it, due
to the overhead requirements of each store.

That's not right, Mike. R&L Electronics started out thirty years back
in a garage full of shelving. The owners, Rita & Larry, began it as a
sideline business while Larry was working full time as a machinist.
It then moved to a small location in the middle of downtown Hamilton,
Ohio. After a number of years, R&L relocated again to an old
supermarket the size of an average IGA store. That's where it is still
located. R&L *is* one of the big players. It is stuffed with
equipment, runs full page QST and CQ ads and meets or beats the prices
of HRO or AES. It does this with the one rather small store.


It is my honest opinion that ham gear at the retail level is all but
extinct.

In my earlier comments, I mentioned the Radio Shack might designate one
store in a given market area for carrying amateur radio equipment.
That'd be the way they could become a player. It would only need folks
with product knowledge and stock at those particular stores. The
employees of other RadShack outlets would only need know enough to point
potential customers to that store.

Ham gear at the retail level is what *everybody* is doing. The stores
themselves buy at the wholesale level from the manufacturers. We radio
amateurs are the retail customers.

Dave K8MN

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:35:02 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:
On 29 Jan 2007 23:08:00 -0800, "
wrote:

From: Bob Brock on Mon, Jan 29 2007 11:10 pm

On 29 Jan 2007 16:44:02 -0800, " wrote:
On Jan 29, 3:32?pm, Dave Heil wrote:
KH6HZ wrote:
"Bob Brock" writes:
In response to "Dee Flint" :
snip

Poor Heil doesn't
realize he's been controlled every time he tries to
control others! :-) Gotta love it...! :-)

Right on. Jim and I had a long, long thread going quite some time ago
on this very subject ("Owned or free...", IIRC) whereby I attempted to
point this very fact out to him. And still, many months later, he
continues to correct, proclaim and argue, often in multiple posts
daily. Regardless of how quixiotic this pursuit is, the good fight
must be fought!

You're a selective reader, "Leo". Good old Mr. Wilson, er Len saw my
post about Tandy/Radio Shack gobbling up Allied electronics and had to
attempt to dazzle me with his expertise. A lengthy treatise including
his having been around when Allied came into existence followed.

I'd tend to agree, "Dave", if this was an isolated post that was
hijacked by mean 'ol Len.

It isn't, though - is it? See a pattern?

I'll bet you don't!


Yessir, Len's a regular puppeteer.

He sure is!


Dave K8MN

73, Leo

Leo wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:35:02 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:
On 29 Jan 2007 23:08:00 -0800, "
wrote:

From: Bob Brock on Mon, Jan 29 2007 11:10 pm

On 29 Jan 2007 16:44:02 -0800, " wrote:
On Jan 29, 3:32?pm, Dave Heil wrote:
KH6HZ wrote:
"Bob Brock" writes:
In response to "Dee Flint" :
snip
Poor Heil doesn't
realize he's been controlled every time he tries to
control others! :-) Gotta love it...! :-)
Right on. Jim and I had a long, long thread going quite some time ago
on this very subject ("Owned or free...", IIRC) whereby I attempted to
point this very fact out to him. And still, many months later, he
continues to correct, proclaim and argue, often in multiple posts
daily. Regardless of how quixiotic this pursuit is, the good fight
must be fought!
You're a selective reader, "Leo". Good old Mr. Wilson, er Len saw my
post about Tandy/Radio Shack gobbling up Allied electronics and had to
attempt to dazzle me with his expertise. A lengthy treatise including
his having been around when Allied came into existence followed.

I'd tend to agree, "Dave", if this was an isolated post that was
hijacked by mean 'ol Len.

Silly ol' Len leapt in with keyboard blazing. Silly ol' Len needed to
exhibit his expertise on matters dealing with Allied Electronics. The
only problem he had is that was short on information.

By the way, my name is Dave. We don't know that yours is Leo.

It isn't, though - is it? See a pattern?

Isolated post? It doesn't matter to Len. I have seen a pattern in his
behavior, "Leo".

I'll bet you don't!

Yessir, Len's a regular puppeteer.

He sure is!

Not.

Dave K8MN

On 29 Jan 2007 23:08:00 -0800, " wrote:
From: Bob Brock on Mon, Jan 29 2007 11:10 pm
On 29 Jan 2007 16:44:02 -0800, " wrote:
On Jan 29, 3:32?pm, Dave Heil wrote:
KH6HZ wrote:
"Bob Brock" writes:

Poor Heil doesn't
realize he's been controlled every time he tries to
control others! :-) Gotta love it...! :-)

Right on. Jim and I had a long, long thread going quite some time ago
on this very subject ("Owned or free...", IIRC) whereby I attempted to
point this very fact out to him. And still, many months later, he
continues to correct, proclaim and argue, often in multiple posts
daily. Regardless of how quixiotic this pursuit is, the good fight
must be fought!

Think "Rocky Balboa" as their "role-model" in their heads.

[note the geographic nearness of Philadelphia... :-) ]

The fanstasy syndrome is, unfortunately, endemic to the
human psyche. PR folks earn their living capitalizing
on that. CELEBRITES become paragons of just about anything
due to PR work. The "audience" confuses the CHARACTER
(on-screen) with the real person portraying the character.
I am waiting for the first HAM-ACTOR to be featured in
QST...how will the League portray him or her? :-)

On computer screens the fantasy syndrome can easily "take
over" and the God of Radio (in here) is formed, complete
with cliques of like-minded "gods" proclaiming "their"
greatness, expertise, and "better than the 'inferiors'
(not of their clique)." The problem for the group as a
whole is that once "IN" that fantasy, their egos refuse
to let them admit any wrong-doing...they were "always
right" and everyone else disagreeing with them "always
wrong." Case in point is Cranky Spanky and his constant
"corrections" on minutae, word play (everything "must" be
"factual" and "absolutely standard"), history of radio
(that he could never have experienced personaly).

Ya know (almost paraphrasing 'John Smith I'), after almost
two dozen years of computer-modem communications, I'm
beginning to wonder if I have seen all the possible
basic types...all I see is small variations, sub-sub-
genres of basic conditions. The variations vary with the
general topic (supposedly) but it all boils down to EGO
and "credentialism" and something akin to "the divine
right of kings" (to RULE). In a hobby activity. ?

For some reason, these guys just don't get it. This personality type
seems to be compelled to respond to every 'poke and jab', quite
predictably, time after time. It is a classic response to stimulus,
right out of your old Psych 101 textbook......If there is, as the old
adage goes, "a sucker born every minute", they seem to have a long
lifespan.

Not always that long. Two regulars in here, high code-
rate tested and Titled as "amateur extras" have passed
on. Haven't heard of any no-code-test advocates going
beyond the ionosphere. They were adamant to their end
on the "necessary skills" etc., etc., etc.

Some of the gods-of-radio clique have gotten clever in
what they consider dialogue. Cranky is really good at
the IMPLIED expertise question-challenge: "Len, you
don't know all of my education" or "Len, you don't know
all the experience I've had with other modes" for two
examples. Yes, I don't and Yes, I don't give a ****.
What one writes and HOW they write it are the "tell" if
anyone has the experience or desire to do something...
which lets me know whether anyone really cares to talk
about a project or activity. I could care less if their
"friends and neighbors" come over to applaud and praise
their hobby things. :-) Even a "frankenbox" kluge will
look high-tech and mysterious to someone not involved
with electronics. shrug I've known that for a long
time and don't make it a point to point to "wondrous
works" out of my workshop. I do that stuff because I
like to to it for me, not "my friends and neighbors" or
to earn "credentials" or to tack a (misused) "honours"
label of a callsign after my name.

Back a while ago we had a friendly little discussion on
the old Icom R-70 communications receiver. Cranky and
der Robust Oberst had to butt in and attempt to change
the subject, apparently on their ever-present need to
show me I'm such a newbie, a "nothing" in "radio." :-)
I've never claimed that R-70 to be "best in the world"
or anything else but reliable. Did a full work-up on it
last year and it still meets Icom's stated specs for
performance. shrug Those specs were state-of-the-
art two decades ago and still are. Heh heh heh...I can
turn them on just by mentioning I "paid cash" for it.
I did. I earned every penny of that "cash" by working
for a living (in regular hours then). I'm still trying
to decipher WHY earning a living is such a "moral flaw"
to them in regards to radio. :-)

It is a lot of fun to crank them up and watch them go, though - must
say, I've done it a time or two myself!

OK, OK, more than two....

No sweat to me. :-) Been there, done that, got so
many T-shirts...etc.

I'm still expressing (internal) wonder at Herr Oberst
and his moral felony charges of NOT GETTING A HAM
LICENSE *FIRST*. And, AFTER ALL THIS TIME! Wow! It's
practically a charge of "treason!" This "Joe McCarthy"
of the newsgroup is really Captain Oblivious to what I've
said about my actual interest in RADIO. Not amateur
radio but ALL radio. I think it marvelous and got INTO
my career because of a fortuitous exposure to big time
HF comms when I was young and serving my country in the
Army. NO! NOT CORRECT! NOT PROPER! MORAL FLAW OF
CHARACTER NOT TO WORSHIP, LOVE, HONOR MORSE CODE!

Sigh. Between Cranky and der Oberst they must have
denuded whole forests to collect wood in attempting
to burn me at the stake for such RELIGIOUS HERESY! :-)
[not "environmentally conscious" are they?]

Ahem, on 23 Feb 07 comes the beginning of the Great
USA Radio Depression, the END OF THE WORLD their
imagined little world of morsemanship! I can't wait
to hear what these paragons of pompous propriety
(amateur style) are going to say afterwards! Already
they've been "warning" me to GET A LICENSE! :-)
What, to sanctify my US First 'Phone that morphed
into a 'GROL' two decades ago and is still ON RECORD
at the FCC? [it is lifetime duration now] To
sanctify my work experience that began professionally
55 years ago? To sanctify my (short) 33-year
professional membership (now a Free Lifetime
membership) in the IEEE? Of course! To these
"extraordinary gentlemen" (of comic book fame), my
terrible treasonous moral impropriety was NOT
GETTING A HAM LICENSE *FIRST*!

Quick, call US HOMELAND SECURITY! Have me picked
up, arrested straightaway as an ENEMY OF THE STATE!

Gotta love it. They are more fun than a barrel of
red-hatted morse monkeys!

Come to think about it, they ARE the little red-hatted
morse monkeys dancing to the ARRL organ tunes! :-)

Stay warm up there and best regards,

On 30 Jan 2007 02:14:40 -0800, wrote:
On Jan 29, 1:02?pm, Bob Brock wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:52:16 -0500, "KH6HZ" wrote:
"Bob Brock" writes:

The economy of scale situation in ham radio today is mail order/
internet sales, plus hamfest/conventions. because they're the most
competitive for most things. Some manufacturers sell don't sell
through dealers at all - Ten Tec and Elecraft are two examples.

Don't confuse lack of customers with economy of scale. Those little
guys can't compete with the big boys any better than the local shops
can compete with Wal-Mart.

True enough. But, in contrast, my wife could have
bought her iRobot set from Sears. [Sears began in
Chicago, too...:-) ] But, iRobot sold a package of
Roomba and Scooba DIRECT for slightly less than what
Sears was charging.

Note: The iRobot products owe their workability to
solid-state ELECTRONICS, especially microprocessors.
Modern-day HF transceivers owe their workability to
solid-state ELECTRONICS, especially microprocessors.

Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, Sears, J.C.Penney all sell
direct through the Internet. Nobody (except John
Smith I) seems to recognize the truly HUGE market
revolution brought on by the Internet. Amazon.com
did...[push, push]


I see that, in certain instances, you do understand economy of scale.
Why you reject other identical instances is a mystery to me.

We shall now pause while Cranky thinks up a proper
rationalization of how he is "always correct"... :-)


How many of us first became aware of the existence of local amateurs
by seeing their antennas?

I wouldn't know since that doesn't apply to me. I became interested
in ham radio and SWL when I met the guy who came out to replace some
tubes in my Grandfather's TV. Back then most commercial radio was AM
and you could listen to stations from all over late at night on a
regular radio. The guy gave me a used short wave radio and I've been
hooked ever since.

My first "interest" in radio was as a young teen-ager
building and flying model aircraft. I read about "radio
control" of them and thought that would be neat. One
of the adult model flyers in the club was a pre-WW2
amateur as well as a pro licensee in radio working for
the CAA. [was so long ago that it wouldn't be NASA
for a while and 'NOAA' didn't exist then...:-) ]

My $98 (retail) National NC-57 receiver was bought via
a $100 prize earned in competitive free-flight model
flying in Detroit, MI, in 1948. Still have the trophy
but the NC-57 has aged more than me...:-)

Everyone has a different episode of first-discovery but
it is proclaimed that only 'certain kinds' of discovery
are the 'only right-and-proper' ones. Ptui.

That was a long time ago though and the new generations have different
motivators. I think that one of the biggest [de]motivators is the stigma
of current CB operations and that a lot of people don't recognize the
difference between the two.

There I agree totally. "CB" came into being in 1958.
I was then a calibration technician at the Ramo-
Wooldridge Corporation Standards Lab in El Segundo, CA.
The lab supervisor was Ed Dodds (not sure of his call-
sign but could have been W6AFU or close to it, anyway
he was a pre-WW2 amateur and had a full Collins station).
Ed didn't think much of this "11-meter Charley Brown"
thing but he didn't despise it either. A lot of the
other olde-tymers at RW denounced it all over the place.
"HOW DARE THE FCC TAKE AWAY *OUR* 11-METER BAND?"
"HOW DARE THE FCC LET CIVILIANS ON HF RADIO WITHOUT A
CODE TEST or even a license test?!?" Blah, blah, blah,
etc. Oh, such a terrible thing!!! That was, as I see
it a time of the birthing of bigotry against CB that
remains in the later-generation amateur community.

No sweat to me. I put a Viking Messenger CB in my
aluminum-body '53 Austin-Healey in 1959 and had a lot
of fun with it. A lot of folks around here in LA did
similar, mobile or fixed. Fabulous "ground plane"
for a base-loaded short whip. Wasn't interested in
"DX." I liked the mobile communications thing, to be
able to talk to PEOPLE, not stations or callsigns.
That was the original intent of "CB," not the olde-
tyme hammature activity of "work DX on HF with CW."

Forty-nine years later the CB users outnumber hams
by at least six to one [I think the EIA quit trying
to take a measure of the number years ago]. It's a
standard item in the cab for highway truckers now.

I look to the right of my computer and see one of the
pair of Motorola FRS-GMRS handy-talkies that was
purchased at Fry's Electronics for less than $50 the
pair. My wife and I use it in and around the house.
I can close my hand around it. Rechargeable NiMH
batteries, AC dual charger part of the sales pack.
According to the 2003 FCC Panel on Unlicensed Radio
there were 15 million FRS radios sold back then.

I don't use "CB" mobile now, haven't since 1981.
A cell phone works just dandy for us on highways
now on one- and two-thousand mile drives cross-
country in the USA. But, according to the morse
mavens still flapping their worn wings prior to
15 Dec 06, I could ONLY be LEGALLY and MORALLY
"CORRECT" by passing a morse code test for an
amateur radio license!!! :-)

Regards,
LA

PS: The new Mouser Feb-Apr 2007 catalog 629 arrived
in today's (30 Jan 07) mail. 1,838 pages. 2 3/16"
thick at the spine. Good to know they are still
"discovering themselves." :-)

"Bob Brock" wrote in message
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
"Bob Brock" wrote in message
On 28 Jan 2007 13:11:46 -0800, " wrote:

So, to bring this back on topic. I wonder if the intent of the average ham
is to make ham radio grow or to maintain a stale status quo? The way I
see it, a steady increase in qualified hams is a good thing. Ham radio
needs a good infusion of new blood and the no-code tech license as a good
start. However, it was only the beginning.

It will be very tough to grow ham radio. We've "saturated the market" so to
speak. If you check around the internet (for example, Speroni's site is
one), you can find the statistics on a few of the other countries. We have
2 hams per thousand people while Europe is running more like 1 ham per
thousand people. While we need to actively recruit, there just aren't a lot
of people out there that are inclined to amateur radio as a part of their
leisure pursuits. We will have to recruit hard just to stay at the current
level. It would not surprise me if our numbers dropped in half over the
next decade or so before leveling out.

Dee, I give you a standing ovation for admitting that!

At last, an amateur extra licensee besides Hans Brakob
who admits what has been visible for years.

The old paradigms are no longer worth a pair of pennies.
"Ham radio" needs to look at itself and its standards
very, very carefully.

The ARRL just doesn't have it to REALLY promote the hobby.
It hasn't had it for years. The ONLY promotion comes from
relatively-isolated (from League hierarchy) groups who have
actively pursued promotion themselves. ARRL's main
"interest" is promoting its (de facto) business of selling
publications. It IS a multi-million-annual-income
corporation despite what Believers say is "non-profit."

The League must CHANGE its political position. Radically.
Singing to the chorus of other amateurs about how good they
are is what the League leaders may want...but it is off-
putting to the majority. Either they show REAL leader-
ship as a membership organization and get with the
mainstream or just be a publisher of niche activities.

There really isn't much choice for them. They've resisted
and resisted and resisted BASIC changes to amateur radio
activity for years. As a result they've NOT increased
their membership by any worthwhile amount for years. The
largest amateur radio licensee class is Technician. It's
been that way for years...yet the League just shines off
that easily-observable fact.

Those who really and truly LIKE amateur radio MUST resist
the very-strong temptation to act as all-around extra
"superiors" and demand "respect" for credentials earned
in amateurism at the same time they are looking down their
noses at others. Despite how much they think of themselves
and other olde-tymers, their personal standards are NOT
shared by others, the mainstream. They MUST learn that
not all "newbies" MUST get into amateur radio as teen-
agers. They MUST learn that teen-agers have many MORE
diversions of very interesting activities AVAILABLE.
Not the latest fad interest or popular entertainment but
very real electronic activities that don't touch on
radio...or, if it does touch on radio, that radio is very
much more and farther from the traditional HF "short-
wave" in the real world. It is what IS, not what
individual olde-tymers want to preserve, that intangible
wonder of something shown to them long, long ago.

I don't have the answers, don't pretend to. But, I can
SEE what has happened, SEE cause-and-effect, and do not
PRETEND that "radio" has remained static since the first
olde-tymers "discovered" it.

I'm not an amateur. I'm a professinal in electronics.
Yet, I've been a hobbyist in electronics since before
most of you readers existed. I've seen the whole of
electronics ("radio" is a subset of that) CHANGE radically
in my lifetime. I've also seen that younger olde-tymers
bitterly resist change, change that they cannot control.
Those who resist change can alter the course of future
amateur radio by simply causing its stagnation and
eventual demise.

Too bad I'm on your "kill list." We might have had a
real conversation here on this. But, no, I have been
categorized as "inferior" or "unworthy" or, as one
put it in the past, "just horrid!" :-)

Regards,

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
. ..

"Bob Brock" wrote in message
news:_Eovh.2876$ch1.1567@bigfe9...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
. ..

"Bob Brock" wrote in message
...
On 28 Jan 2007 13:11:46 -0800, "
wrote:


Not at all, John, you be wrong there. ARRL has periodical and
publication racks on the floors of HRO and Radio Shack and
other stores to catch all eyes.

Not really trying to change the subject, but I went to the local
bookstore and two Radio Shacks trying to get a copy of the General
Class Study manual. Both Radio Shacks said that they no longer carry
the study guides. So, I opted to download the questions and answers
from the net for free and give that a shot.

Did two Radio Shack managers lie to me? Has anyone seen the ARRL
study guides? I didn't even see any of the "Now Your's Talking" books
at the local stores.

Radio Shack has basically gotten out of amateur radio. I haven't seen
any study guides there for a couple of years. Sometimes you can get
them at Barnes & Noble but you have to special order. In that case one
might as well order directly off the ARRL website.

The Technician license manual is no longer called "Now You're Talking".
I don't recall the new name.

Right. Radio Shack pimps the hot products for the moment. The way I see
it, them not even carrying license manuals speaks volumes about demand
for them. Now, when you walk into a Radio Shack and see loads of HF
antennas, HF rigs, and a shelf of study guides; then you can say that Ham
radio is back in demand.

So, to bring this back on topic. I wonder if the intent of the average
ham is to make ham radio grow or to maintain a stale status quo? The way
I see it, a steady increase in qualified hams is a good thing. Ham radio
needs a good infusion of new blood and the no-code tech license as a good
start. However, it was only the beginning.


It will be very tough to grow ham radio. We've "saturated the market" so
to speak. If you check around the internet (for example, Speroni's site
is one), you can find the statistics on a few of the other countries. We
have 2 hams per thousand people while Europe is running more like 1 ham
per thousand people. While we need to actively recruit, there just aren't
a lot of people out there that are inclined to amateur radio as a part of
their leisure pursuits. We will have to recruit hard just to stay at the
current level. It would not surprise me if our numbers dropped in half
over the next decade or so before leveling out.

You could be right. However, there wouldn't be anything wrong with looking
at the potential base of good people who could be interested in ham radio
and trying to figure out what aspects might motivate them in joining in the
hobby. Well, except that we are in the wrong ng to do that right here and
would need to start another thread in the appropriate ng instead. I guess
I'm questioning whether we should recruit hard or recruit smart? Perhaps
both wouldn't hurt anything.

However, to be honest with you and the others here, I've got a crisis going
on here right now. My wife had a brain tumor removed a little over a week
ago and we just found out tonight that the tumor was malignant. She lost
use of her left arm and leg during the operation and will require radiation
therapy after the physical therapy. I'll leave it up to those who are
already here to decide among yourselves if a discussion of the potential
base and what motivates them would be beneficial in the appropriate ng or
not.

Hey, it's better than holding on to old vendettas and it could give everyone
a chance to provide some thoughtful input since it should be pretty non
controversial. Give it a thought and do what you will. I'll post as time
permits, but things are going to get really busy here for the next few
months. I was wanting to study and take the General exam, but that too will
take a back burner right now.

Take care all and I'll post when time permits.

Bob

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:35:49 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:35:02 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:
On 29 Jan 2007 23:08:00 -0800, "
wrote:

From: Bob Brock on Mon, Jan 29 2007 11:10 pm

On 29 Jan 2007 16:44:02 -0800, " wrote:
On Jan 29, 3:32?pm, Dave Heil wrote:
KH6HZ wrote:
"Bob Brock" writes:
In response to "Dee Flint" :
snip
Poor Heil doesn't
realize he's been controlled every time he tries to
control others! :-) Gotta love it...! :-)
Right on. Jim and I had a long, long thread going quite some time ago
on this very subject ("Owned or free...", IIRC) whereby I attempted to
point this very fact out to him. And still, many months later, he
continues to correct, proclaim and argue, often in multiple posts
daily. Regardless of how quixiotic this pursuit is, the good fight
must be fought!
You're a selective reader, "Leo". Good old Mr. Wilson, er Len saw my
post about Tandy/Radio Shack gobbling up Allied electronics and had to
attempt to dazzle me with his expertise. A lengthy treatise including
his having been around when Allied came into existence followed.

I'd tend to agree, "Dave", if this was an isolated post that was
hijacked by mean 'ol Len.

Silly ol' Len leapt in with keyboard blazing. Silly ol' Len needed to
exhibit his expertise on matters dealing with Allied Electronics. The
only problem he had is that was short on information.

That was of paramount importance - many future generations of usenet
Googlers will pay homage to you for pointing that out to all with such
elegance and aplomb!

Hear, hear!


By the way, my name is Dave. We don't know that yours is Leo.

"We"? The OCD was a bit obvious - there aren't multiple personalities
in there too, are there? ("Daves"?)

It isn't, though - is it? See a pattern?

Isolated post? It doesn't matter to Len. I have seen a pattern in his
behavior, "Leo".

You certainly have - every time you post a follow up to one of Len's
posts!


I'll bet you don't!

Yessir, Len's a regular puppeteer.

He sure is!

Not.

Whatever you think, "Daves"!


Dave K8MN

73, Leo