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Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
Information from within ARRL indicates that last year the ARRL VECs, whose
teams handle over 70% ov al VE sessions, per their claim (which I am not confirming nor disputing), performed over 5,000 VE sessions (with each session handling multiple applicants/testees). According to the report, the average session was 5-10 applicants/testees ... (25-50k testees) "Reservations" have now jumped to 50-75/session!!! It appears that no-code WILL result in significant growth. (as I predicted) While some who want to keep our bands "to themselves" (at least until they're reallocated for lack of/diminishing use) will bemoan this, I am elated! From what I've seen, the ARRL BoD is "Getting It" about the need to welcome new hams and strongly discourage any berating/insulting/bad treatment of them just because they didn't have to take a Morse test. BRAVO! I hope that ALL hams will "get with the program" and act like decent human beings/Elmers towards the impending, apparently significant influx of newcomers. Treat them right and they will assimilate - treat the crappy and you'll regret it in the long run. 73, Carl - wk3c |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Jan 31, 11:03�pm, "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:
Information from within ARRL indicates that last year the ARRL VECs, whose teams handle over 70% ov al VE sessions, per their claim (which I am not confirming nor disputing), performed over 5,000 VE sessions (with each session handling multiple applicants/testees). According to the report, the average session was 5-10 applicants/testees .... (25-50k testees) "Reservations" have now jumped to 50-75/session!!! That's excellent! It appears that no-code WILL result in significant growth. (as I predicted) Well, maybe. We don't know if those reservations are for new hams, or for existing hams planning to upgrade. We also don't know how long the "surge" will last. Back in 2000, when both the Morse Code and written testing were reduced, there was a surge of growth. But it only lasted a short time, and now we're more than 18,000 US hams *fewer* than we were in May 2000. (see the long-lived thread "ARS License Numbers" for exact numbers). IOW, the growth from the last license-requirements change did not last. Hopefully, that won't be the case with this change. While some who want to keep our bands "to themselves" (at least until they're reallocated for lack of/diminishing use) will bemoan this, I am elated! I don't know any who want to "keep the bands to themselves". Who would they be? There *are* folks with differing ideas as to what the requirements for a license will be. From what I've seen, the ARRL BoD is "Getting It" about the need to welcome new hams and strongly discourage any berating/insulting/bad treatment of them just because they didn't have to take a Morse test. *BRAVO! I hope that ALL hams will "get with the program" and act like decent human beings/Elmers towards the impending, apparently significant influx of newcomers. From what I read on the various reflectors, that has always been the case in most of amateur radio. Treat them right and they will assimilate - treat the crappy and you'll regret it in the long run. Remember that it's a two-way street, as well. --- We'll see about the growth in a few weeks/months/years. Good to hear from you, Carl. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ... Information from within ARRL indicates that last year the ARRL VECs, whose teams handle over 70% ov al VE sessions, per their claim (which I am not confirming nor disputing), performed over 5,000 VE sessions (with each session handling multiple applicants/testees). According to the report, the average session was 5-10 applicants/testees ... (25-50k testees) "Reservations" have now jumped to 50-75/session!!! Is that NEW applicants or merely upgraders. I've had no increase in new applicants making reservations but a significant increase in upgraders. Also it is too soon to determine if this is simply a short term phenomenon or will it sustain itself. By the way would you care to enter a guess in my pool as to the percent increase in amateur numbers in one year beginning from the date of the implementation? Here are the rules and the current pool of guesses. Rules: 1) Predict amount of change in ARS numbers between the IMPLEMENTATION date of the R&O for elimination of code testing and one year from that date. 2) Calculation of the number of licenses will be done by N2EY under the same principals that he uses now to calculate the number of licenses. 3) You must select whole numbers for your percentage. 4) You may select positive or negative percentages. 5) You may select a range but that range may not exceed a total of 4%. Note that your average will be used to determine who is closest. If the actual change is outside the range of everyone's guesses then the person whose limit is closest will be the winner. 6) You must submit your guess no later than six months after the IMPLEMENTATION date of the R&O. Anyone else? Note if your guess doesn't show up on the list within a week, it may mean that my ISP is blocking it or that you are on my blocked senders list. You may still participate but you will have to have your guess submitted by someone who is not blocked. Guesses submitted: N8UZE: 1% less to 1% more N2EY: 1% more to 2% more KH6HZ: 1% less to 0% change N3KIP: 2% more to 6% more KH6O: 6% more to 10% more KK6J: 12% more to 14% more KC2HMZ: 5% more --- Added 12/31/06 Dee, N8UZE |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ... Information from within ARRL indicates that last year the ARRL VECs, whose teams handle over 70% ov al VE sessions, per their claim (which I am not confirming nor disputing), performed over 5,000 VE sessions (with each session handling multiple applicants/testees). According to the report, the average session was 5-10 applicants/testees ... (25-50k testees) "Reservations" have now jumped to 50-75/session!!! It appears that no-code WILL result in significant growth. (as I predicted) While some who want to keep our bands "to themselves" (at least until they're reallocated for lack of/diminishing use) will bemoan this, I am elated! From what I've seen, the ARRL BoD is "Getting It" about the need to welcome new hams and strongly discourage any berating/insulting/bad treatment of them just because they didn't have to take a Morse test. BRAVO! I hope that ALL hams will "get with the program" and act like decent human beings/Elmers towards the impending, apparently significant influx of newcomers. Treat them right and they will assimilate - treat the crappy and you'll regret it in the long run. 73, Carl - wk3c comittee dear me does he wish his efforts to fail -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
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Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
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Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"Bob Brock" wrote in message .. . "Bob Brock" wrote in message .. . "Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... wrote: On Jan 31, 11:03?pm, "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote: Information from within ARRL indicates that last year the ARRL VECs, whose teams handle over 70% ov al VE sessions, per their claim (which I am not confirming nor disputing), performed over 5,000 VE sessions (with each session handling multiple applicants/testees). According to the report, the average session was 5-10 applicants/testees ... (25-50k testees) "Reservations" have now jumped to 50-75/session!!! That's excellent! It appears that no-code WILL result in significant growth. (as I predicted) Well, maybe. W3GEG told me that this past week's VE session in Morgantown resulted in five fellows who took and passed Morse Code exams in obtaining their new licenses. I seem to recall that you'd commented some time ago that some people might want to take such an exam before the elimination of Morse testing. I'm still waiting...so I guess he's right. My bad. I was reading pretty quickly and posted some nonsense. My apology. Bob with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty impoving my spelling do u hav anyting cognet two say? http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Feb 1, 12:49�pm, Dave Heil wrote:
wrote: On Jan 31, 11:03?pm, "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote: Information from within ARRL indicates that last year the ARRL VECs, whose teams handle over 70% ov al VE sessions, per their claim (which I am not confirming nor disputing), performed over 5,000 VE sessions (with each session handling multiple applicants/testees). According to the report, the average session was 5-10 applicants/testees ... (25-50k testees) "Reservations" have now jumped to 50-75/session!!! That's excellent! It appears that no-code WILL result in significant growth. (as I predicted) Well, maybe. W3GEG told me that this past week's VE session in Morgantown resulted in five fellows who took and passed Morse Code exams in obtaining their new licenses. *I seem to recall that you'd commented some time ago that some people might want to take such an exam before the elimination of Morse testing. Yep, that's right. In fact Carl, WK3C, was a major contributor to a local radio club prize for the *last* person in the club to pass Element 1. (See his earlier posting at the start of a different thread for details.) --- Hopefully, the upcoming changes to the license requirements will result in a new era of long-term growth in amateur radio, as has been repeatedly predicted and promised by many of those in favor of the changes. But what if it doesn't? 73 es KC de Jim, N2EY |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
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Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message 36... wrote in oups.com: On Feb 1, 12:49�pm, Dave Heil wrote: wrote: On Jan 31, 11:03?pm, "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote: Information from within ARRL indicates that last year the ARRL VECs, w hose teams handle over 70% ov al VE sessions, per their claim (which I am n ot confirming nor disputing), performed over 5,000 VE sessions (with each session handling multiple applicants/testees). According to the report, the average session was 5-10 applicants/teste es ... (25-50k testees) "Reservations" have now jumped to 50-75/session!!! That's excellent! It appears that no-code WILL result in significant growth. (as I predi cted) Well, maybe. W3GEG told me that this past week's VE session in Morgantown resulted in five fellows who took and passed Morse Code exams in obtaining their new licenses. I seem to recall that you'd commented some time ago that some people might want to take such an exam before the elimination of Morse testing. Yep, that's right. In fact Carl, WK3C, was a major contributor to a local radio club prize for the *last* person in the club to pass Element 1. (See his earlier posting at the start of a different thread for details.) --- Hopefully, the upcoming changes to the license requirements will result in a new era of long-term growth in amateur radio, as has been repeatedly predicted and promised by many of those in favor of the changes. But what if it doesn't? A question might be "what are you going to do to insure that it doesn't? (Not you specifically) My group is already working to make sure that the new folks don't feel shunned, and in recognition that many of the new folks will be inexperienced as compared to years past, we plan on some pretty extensive Elmering. It should be great fun. One possible fly in the ointment is that just as there are Hams who wouldn't upgrade to Extra because their advanced license proved they took a higher speed code test, there are some who will probably do all they can to have their dire predictions be a self fulfilling prophecy. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Well I keep trying to spread the word on ham radio and try to get people to try the hobby. However, batting zero here. If my hypothesis is correct that we've basically "saturated the market" then the best we can hope for is a sustainable level but no long term growth. I have met many people who have heard little to nothing about ham radio until I start talking about it. I've met no one who has stayed away because of any test requirements. The ones I've talked to don't even know that we have to be licensed. Dee, N8UZE Dee, N8UZE |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
Mike Coslo wrote:
One possible fly in the ointment is that just as there are Hams who wouldn't upgrade to Extra because their advanced license proved they took a higher speed code test, there are some who will probably do all they can to have their dire predictions be a self fulfilling prophecy. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Count me as an Advanced Class licensee who plans to upgrade (and keep my 2x3 callsign). However, *before* doing so, I intend to obtain a = 20wpm Morse proficiency certificate. 73, Bryan WA7PRC |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"Dee Flint" wrote:
I have met many people who have heard little to nothing about ham radio until I start talking about it. Most non-technical people I run into, where the topic of ham radio comes up, end up saying one of two things. Either 1) "Oh, you're one of those guys with the unsightly cell tower in your yard" or 2) "Yeah my neighbor had one of you guys next door, and he couldn't watch his tv or vcr any longer cuz you you guys" 73 kh6hz |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Feb 1, 10:23 pm, "KH6HZ" wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote: I have met many people who have heard little to nothing about ham radio until I start talking about it. Most non-technical people I run into, where the topic of ham radio comes up, end up saying one of two things. Either 1) "Oh, you're one of those guys with the unsightly cell tower in your yard" or 2) "Yeah my neighbor had one of you guys next door, and he couldn't watch his tv or vcr any longer cuz you you guys" 73 kh6hz My neighbor wanted to become a ham, but I told him all the calls were used up. |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
My group is already working to make sure that the new folks don't feel shunned, and in recognition that many of the new folks will be inexperienced as compared to years past, we plan on some pretty extensive Elmering. It should be great fun. A similar situation happened back in the Spring of 2000, when 5WPM coders could become generals and extras. Lots of new hams on the HF phone bands. I was one of 'em. Aside from a few various newbie errors, we learned pretty quickly. I would expect the same to be true of the no code hams who become generals and extras in the spring of 2007. |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"robert casey" wrote in message link.net... My group is already working to make sure that the new folks don't feel shunned, and in recognition that many of the new folks will be inexperienced as compared to years past, we plan on some pretty extensive Elmering. It should be great fun. A similar situation happened back in the Spring of 2000, when 5WPM coders could become generals and extras. Lots of new hams on the HF phone bands. I was one of 'em. Aside from a few various newbie errors, we learned pretty quickly. I would expect the same to be true of the no code hams who become generals and extras in the spring of 2007. Yup and I'll do my best to welcome them (and perhaps coax them to try cw) and answer any of their questions that I am capable of or point them to someone who can answer them.. I've NEVER subscribed to the filter theory. My reason for wanting to keep code testing was that I believed it to be a basic skill that all should learn at a basic level. Nothing more and nothing less. Dee, N8UZE |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
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Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Jan 31, 11:03 pm, "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:
Information from within ARRL indicates that last year the ARRL VECs, whose teams handle over 70% ov al VE sessions, per their claim (which I am not confirming nor disputing), performed over 5,000 VE sessions (with each session handling multiple applicants/testees). According to the report, the average session was 5-10 applicants/testees ... (25-50k testees) "Reservations" have now jumped to 50-75/session!!! It appears that no-code WILL result in significant growth. (as I predicted) Carl 'ole bean you're making some some very dicey assumptions and extrapolations here. What evidence do you have which indicates that this latest lurch will result in anything beyond just another bubble of upgrades a la 1991 and 2000? The simple fact of the matter is that we're into a very mature avocation based on an ancient basic technology which lost it's sex appeal in the general population years ago. I agree with others in this thread, we'll be lucky to regain the 18,000 the hobby has already lost since the head count peaked. I do hope you're prepared to eat some crow if your predictions don't come true. While some who want to keep our bands "to themselves" (at least until they're reallocated for lack of/diminishing use) As you well know the HF ham bands are not under any threats, they're not going anywhere for a very long time. It'll be interesting to see if the upgraders actually generate a noticeable increase in HF band activity levels. Techs have been able to become licensed without a code test for 15 years, they spend say spend $175 for a 2M FM rig and a few bucks for a little easy-up 2M antenna and they're on the air. Which is good and now they can upgrade to nocode Generals and Extras. And oops, they run into the much higher costs of HF equipment and all the hassles related to putting up HF antennas. If they weren't previously interested enough in ham radio to do the work required to pass the 5WPM code test will they now be interested enough in ham radio to spend the bigger bucks and get HF antennas up in the new regime? will bemoan this, I am elated! From what I've seen, the ARRL BoD is "Getting It" about the need to welcome new hams and strongly discourage any berating/insulting/bad treatment of them just because they didn't have to take a Morse test. BRAVO! When was the last time anybody paid any attention to the ARRL's unending stream of admonitions about playing nice? 1928? I hope that ALL hams will "get with the program" and act like decent human beings/Elmers towards the impending, apparently significant influx of newcomers. Treat them right and they will assimilate - treat the crappy and you'll regret it in the long run. This whole topic area is worn out overblown nonsense. There are 600,000 licensed hams in the U.S. with maybe 150,000-200,000 actually active. Of this group there are some misfits, maladroits and nutcases whose influence on the welfare of the hobby has been hugely overrated. This BS is nothing more than an excuse, a copout, a handy rationale of covenience which blames the lack of growth of the hobby on these anti- social types. I don't believe for one minute that their behavior has any really measurable impact on the growth - or lack of growth of the total head count. Bits and pieces of anti-social behavior are everywhere we go, out on the streets, at meetings, in this NG, on the job and yes on the ham bands too. That's life and we deal with it in other sectors without whining about it like too many do when ham radio is involved. Adapt or find another hobby because thee, the ARRL and I are not going to "fix" them. As far as elmering and "assimilation" of newbies is concerned one of the first points I'd make to a newbie is to simply spin the big knob in the panel and go somewhere else when they run into a jerk. How difficult is that?? And by the way Carl the volume of misbehavior in the hobby today is no worse than it was a half century ago. Back when ham radio grew every year . . . 73, Carl - wk3c w3rv |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Feb 2, 7:10?am, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote: But what if it doesn't? Ham radio still has a lot to offer but not nearly as much as it once did. What can we do to make it more attractive? -- 73, Cecil,http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Sell diet plans and make-up kits at hamfests? :-) Get Jenny Craig to sponsor a ham gathering? LA |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message 36... wrote in oups.com: On Feb 1, 12:49�pm, Dave Heil wrote: wrote: On Jan 31, 11:03?pm, "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote: Information from within ARRL indicates that last year the ARRL VECs, w hose teams handle over 70% ov al VE sessions, per their claim (which I am n ot confirming nor disputing), performed over 5,000 VE sessions (with each session handling multiple applicants/testees). According to the report, the average session was 5-10 applicants/teste es ... (25-50k testees) "Reservations" have now jumped to 50-75/session!!! That's excellent! It appears that no-code WILL result in significant growth. (as I predi cted) Well, maybe. W3GEG told me that this past week's VE session in Morgantown resulted in five fellows who took and passed Morse Code exams in obtaining their new licenses. I seem to recall that you'd commented some time ago that some people might want to take such an exam before the elimination of Morse testing. Yep, that's right. In fact Carl, WK3C, was a major contributor to a local radio club prize for the *last* person in the club to pass Element 1. (See his earlier posting at the start of a different thread for details.) --- Hopefully, the upcoming changes to the license requirements will result in a new era of long-term growth in amateur radio, as has been repeatedly predicted and promised by many of those in favor of the changes. But what if it doesn't? A question might be "what are you going to do to insure that it doesn't? (Not you specifically) My group is already working to make sure that the new folks don't feel shunned, and in recognition that many of the new folks will be inexperienced as compared to years past, we plan on some pretty extensive Elmering. It should be great fun. One possible fly in the ointment is that just as there are Hams who wouldn't upgrade to Extra because their advanced license proved they took a higher speed code test, there are some who will probably do all they can to have their dire predictions be a self fulfilling prophecy. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Not really. I was advanced, thus proving 13 wpm, and I upgraded to extra last year to a 5 wpm call sign. All you need to do is keep your old call sign if you want to prove you passed a higher speed. I would like to see a special format of vanity call signs that require you to have an ARRL certificate of proficiency for 20 wpm, which is quite a good achievement. Like all vanity signs, you would have to pay and it would not give you any special priviledges. It might be useful for reciprocal licenses in certain countries like China (pop. 1.2 billion) that still require code. |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
" wrote in
oups.com: On Feb 2, 7:10?am, Cecil Moore wrote: wrote: But what if it doesn't? Ham radio still has a lot to offer but not nearly as much as it once did. What can we do to make it more attractive? -- 73, Cecil,http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Sell diet plans and make-up kits at hamfests? :-) Get Jenny Craig to sponsor a ham gathering? Might help! Thing one - there never will be a huge number of hams. Thing two - I've seen firsthand the damage that the grouchy olde tymers can do. They chase people away. Old timers with an attitude are now the greatest danger to Ham radio. Putting together a station is fun. Talking around the world without a structure is fun. Learning about all that Radio encompasses is fun. Talking with friends old and new about radio is fun Fun, fun, fun, fun for everyone! Listening to someone bemoan CB'ers, nickle extras, and how their prowess in CW makes them superior, how Hams really had it hard in the old days, any idiot can become a ham nowadays, next thing yaknow, they will be giving licenses away on boxes of cereal type hams, and onandon is not fun. That type would be helping the ARS best by turning in their license. Or at least having the decency to keep their hate to themselves. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message .. . wrote: But what if it doesn't? Ham radio still has a lot to offer but not nearly as much as it once did. What can we do to make it more attractive? Very good question. In future centuries it may become very popular again in some form if we ever colonize planets or moons in our solar system. However, not being there yet, I sure would like to improve our situation on this planet, especially during sunspot minima. It would REALLY be helpful if we could have a full 40m band that is free of commerical broadcasting interference...that would be a significant improvement. Also, the ability to communicate on a full 60 m band at full power would help. A decent chunk of 30m with voice would be very helpful. Much of the segments I mentioned are not used that much anymore by the commericals and it is going to waste. 75-80m and 160m are great at certain times except that, although they tend to favor the rural demographic, they are uselss to the younger people who tend to live in the cities and suburbs. I think the spectrum provided to us is basically unusable much of the time (with the exception of 20m). We are told to use the bands or lose them but much of what we have cannot be used, reliably, much of the time. |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
It depends. Some years ago, I went to a hamfest/convention, and there were some ARRL bigwigs in the room. Must have been the early 90s. There had been suggestions that amateur radio didn't have the general exposure it should have had. There are huge county fairs, state fairs, and how often do you see amateur radio shown and demonstrated there? Indeed, the Smithsonian Institution had a station = NN3SI, that was on public display and in daily operation, and it disappeared!!! So finally one of the senior citizens running the event said "We put up an amateur station at (a major fair)". I'm thinking --- GREAT! "And we held demonstrations for the youngsters - like the 4-H group." GREAT AGAIN! "And we had a message fair!" Groan. The ARRL guy reads some text from a parent to his kid at home "and if you don't do your homework, you're grounded.", grasping a wrinkled "radiogram". I asked a question. When I asked it, I thought the guy was gonna die. "Well, I can understand, that a message fair may be of interest to you, and may have gotten you interested in this. But in this day of cheap long-distance and international telephone calling, and now we're in the cellular age, and online computer chatting, do you really think this is going to turn kids' heads? I mean, a MESSAGE FAIR???" He didn't know how to answer. He stumbled. Then he said , "well we weren't really trying to convince the kids to join up" or something like that. A noted media personality was in the audience and suggested that ham radio be tied into technologies that kids understand -- like, for instance, satellite tracking and communication. Show the horizon tracking and when the satellite gets to this point here, you're gonna hear voices on the radio. Fuse computer technology with ham radio technology and you'll turn the kids heads. How do you attract the new folks? Kids, adults, whatever? Forget about what turned you on to amateur radio 20, 30, 50 , 60 years ago. Try to think of something that will turn the kids' heads today, if you can. Morse code won't do it. Neither will 2 meter hand helds, not in the era of cellular technology. Packet? Who needs it, we got e-mail. Experimentation? Maybe! SOMETHING ... I'm surprised amateur television hasn't jumped up. ATV via balloon? Satellite signals? But clear your head of message fairs, or technology that got you buzzed in 1955. Don't blame the audience if they're not interested in code. Don't blame society. They want to know -- what FUN can they have? |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message 36... " wrote in oups.com: On Feb 2, 7:10?am, Cecil Moore wrote: wrote: But what if it doesn't? Ham radio still has a lot to offer but not nearly as much as it once did. What can we do to make it more attractive? -- 73, Cecil,http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Sell diet plans and make-up kits at hamfests? :-) Get Jenny Craig to sponsor a ham gathering? Might help! Thing one - there never will be a huge number of hams. Thing two - I've seen firsthand the damage that the grouchy olde tymers can do. They chase people away. Old timers with an attitude are now the greatest danger to Ham radio. Putting together a station is fun. Talking around the world without a structure is fun. Learning about all that Radio encompasses is fun. Talking with friends old and new about radio is fun Fun, fun, fun, fun for everyone! Listening to someone bemoan CB'ers, nickle extras, and how their prowess in CW makes them superior, how Hams really had it hard in the old days, any idiot can become a ham nowadays, next thing yaknow, they will be giving licenses away on boxes of cereal type hams, and onandon is not fun. That type would be helping the ARS best by turning in their license. Or at least having the decency to keep their hate to themselves. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Yup. I've said many times that the greatest harm came not from the debates but the outright hatred and lies that some in both groups perpetuated. Dee, N8UZE |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Feb 2, 10:10?am, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote: But what if it doesn't? Ham radio still has a lot to offer but not nearly as much as it once did. What does amateur radio not offer now that it once did? It seems to me that amateur radio today offers even more than it did when I first got started 40 years ago. For example, in 1967: - Almost all HF/MF amateur operation was CW, SSB voice, or AM voice. There was some SSTV and 45.45 baud Baudot RTTY, but those modes required a considerable amount of additional equipment that was bulky, complex, and expensive. - Almost all VHF/UHF amateur operation was AM voice or CW. There was some SSB voice, some FM voice, some RC, some RTTY and some ATV. RTTY and ATV required a considerable amount of additional equipment that was bulky, complex, and expensive. There were only a few repeaters on the amateur bands, and amateur satellite communications was only a few years old (OSCAR 1 was launched in 1961). - 30, 17 and 12 meters weren't ham bands. 160 was full of LORAN, and amateur use of 160 was severely restricted. - Adjusted for inflation, most new ham gear was much more expensive then than it is now. Look up the price of, say, a Swan 350 and power supply, or a Drake 4 line, and then adjust the prices for inflation. - Computers had almost no presence in amateur radio. A few people with connections, usually at universities, did neat things like very early forms of computer logging and circuit simulation, but that was the exception. - Most not-in-person communication between amateurs was by the ham bands, the telephone, the US mail and publications. There were no websites full of free-for-the-download information, no eBay or online sellers, no email, etc. Elmering was limited to the hams in your area, the ones you could find on the air, and possibly a few by-mail. - The only permitted digital mode was 45.45 baud RTTY using the 5 level Baudot code. It would be a decade more before any other digital modes were allowed for US hams. The list goes on and on. Many of the things that are commonplace in amateur radio today were far in the future back then. Many other things in amateur radio were far more expensive and difficult in those days than they are today. It seems to me that a ham today can do almost everything that a ham could do in 1967. What can we do to make it more attractive? I think the major thing to do is to simply portray all the things amateurs are doing - today, in 2007 - to as wide an audience as possible. Then let people decide what they are interested in. For example, don't assume that today's young people will only be interested in how to use a computer with a radio, or that older folks aren't going to be interested in new technology. Just show the "Ham's Wide World" of 2007, and let the folks who are interested decide what they like about it. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
wrote:
What does amateur radio not offer now that it once did? One example: First on the scene with emergency mobile communications. In the 1950's, I was the fifth person to arrive upon the scene of a severe auto accident and the first one with mobile communications with which to call for help. Nowadays, the first four people would have cell phones. Even if I were the first on the scene, I would use my cell phone, not my mobile ham rig. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
"Greg and Joan" wrote in
hlink.net: It depends. Some years ago, I went to a hamfest/convention, and there were some ARRL bigwigs in the room. Must have been the early 90s. There had been suggestions that amateur radio didn't have the general exposure it should have had. There are huge county fairs, state fairs, and how often do you see amateur radio shown and demonstrated there? Indeed, the Smithsonian Institution had a station = NN3SI, that was on public display and in daily operation, and it disappeared!!! So finally one of the senior citizens running the event said "We put up an amateur station at (a major fair)". I'm thinking --- GREAT! "And we held demonstrations for the youngsters - like the 4-H group." GREAT AGAIN! "And we had a message fair!" Groan. The ARRL guy reads some text from a parent to his kid at home "and if you don't do your homework, you're grounded.", grasping a wrinkled "radiogram". I asked a question. When I asked it, I thought the guy was gonna die. "Well, I can understand, that a message fair may be of interest to you, and may have gotten you interested in this. But in this day of cheap long-distance and international telephone calling, and now we're in the cellular age, and online computer chatting, do you really think this is going to turn kids' heads? I mean, a MESSAGE FAIR???" He didn't know how to answer. He stumbled. Then he said , "well we weren't really trying to convince the kids to join up" or something like that. A noted media personality was in the audience and suggested that ham radio be tied into technologies that kids understand -- like, for instance, satellite tracking and communication. Show the horizon tracking and when the satellite gets to this point here, you're gonna hear voices on the radio. Fuse computer technology with ham radio technology and you'll turn the kids heads. How do you attract the new folks? Kids, adults, whatever? Forget about what turned you on to amateur radio 20, 30, 50 , 60 years ago. Try to think of something that will turn the kids' heads today, if you can. Morse code won't do it. Neither will 2 meter hand helds, not in the era of cellular technology. Packet? Who needs it, we got e-mail. Experimentation? Maybe! SOMETHING ... I'm surprised amateur television hasn't jumped up. ATV via balloon? Satellite signals? But clear your head of message fairs, or technology that got you buzzed in 1955. Don't blame the audience if they're not interested in code. Don't blame society. They want to know -- what FUN can they have? Well put. A message fair is about as exciting as watching the trucks unload at the grocery store. First we need to evaluate what amateur radio is. It's a hobby/service that is aimed at more or less technically inclined people. It is not Kewl. It is very cool though. It is a chance to send signals agross the world without the aid of wires or infrastructure. You can build antennas, build radios, write software, communicate via voice, keyboard or OOK Morse. You can contest, you can contact as many countries and make friends all over the world. You can explore a lifetime worth of activity. It is not much of an an activity for children anymore, although the young can take part in it. But times have changed. Not as much equipment is easily bought or built by the young'uns, and club activities are usually not set up for a mix of adults and youngsters. The demographic of new hams is similar to other technical hobbies such as Amateur astronomy, in that as a person gains more free time after the children are in college, they pursue interests that they have put off. This puts the new Ham in the 40's or older. My own experience and what I have seen since I became a ham bears this out. Age is not important. Enthusiasm is. The technical aspect of it will sell at a fairly low level until the chinese put a man on the moon, then the politico's will scream about how the US is being eclipsed technically, and we start having sputnik flashbacks. then parents may encourage their children to look at technical pursuits. I agree that the ATV ballooning aspect is a good approach for generating interest. I was heading up a ballooning effort when other ARS related activities made it take a back seat. But it has the potential for some really interesting work that amateurs can participate in. Emergency Ops? I fear that in the post Katrina world, Amateur radio emergency operations will become *******ized into people who will undergo background investigations so that they can unload trucks, take out the trash and serve coffee to the professionals. At one point I was interested in EO, but seeing the recent "how amateur radio has to change" articles that espouse the above, I'll pass. I'm pretty certain that emergency ops will eventually be handled by professionals who get amateur radio licenses. Remember that the ARS got high marks during the Katrina debacle. The pros won't forget that. No good deed goes unpunished. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
Cecil Moore wrote in news:z8Twh.51868$QU1.17938
@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net: wrote: What does amateur radio not offer now that it once did? One example: First on the scene with emergency mobile communications. In the 1950's, I was the fifth person to arrive upon the scene of a severe auto accident and the first one with mobile communications with which to call for help. Nowadays, the first four people would have cell phones. Even if I were the first on the scene, I would use my cell phone, not my mobile ham rig. I tried calling 911 once, but couldn't find the 11 key. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Feb 2, 10:16?pm, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote: What does amateur radio not offer now that it once did? One example: First on the scene with emergency mobile communications. In the 1950's, I was the fifth person to arrive upon the scene of a severe auto accident and the first one with mobile communications with which to call for help. Nowadays, the first four people would have cell phones. Even if I were the first on the scene, I would use my cell phone, not my mobile ham rig. I've been in that situation too, Cecil, and a lot more recently than the 1950s. And yes, if it were to happen today, my first reaction would be 911 on the cell phone. Only if that didn't work would I consider ham radio. But consider this: How many hams got their license so they could be the first on the scene with mobile emergency communications, compared with those who got their license because they thought "radio for its own sake" is fun? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
wrote:
How many hams got their license so they could be the first on the scene with mobile emergency communications, compared with those who got their license because they thought "radio for its own sake" is fun? As a member of Intel's iEARS, the majority of people within Intel that I recruited to be new hams were primarily interested in emergency communications. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Feb 3, 8:36?am, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote: How many hams got their license so they could be the first on the scene with mobile emergency communications, compared with those who got their license because they thought "radio for its own sake" is fun? As a member of Intel's iEARS, the majority of people within Intel that I recruited to be new hams were primarily interested in emergency communications. -- But were they primarily interested in being first on the scene with mobile emergency communications, for things like auto accidents? Or were they primarily interested in emergency communications between fixed points, in situations where the normal communications infrastucture was unavailable? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
wrote:
But were they primarily interested in being first on the scene with mobile emergency communications, for things like auto accidents? Or were they primarily interested in emergency communications between fixed points, in situations where the normal communications infrastucture was unavailable? The latter. The point is that Intel probably doesn't rely on hams for emergency communications anymore. I would guess they use commercial satellites now. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Feb 2, 8:09?pm, wrote:
On Feb 2, 10:16?pm, Cecil Moore wrote: wrote: What does amateur radio not offer now that it once did? One example: First on the scene with emergency mobile communications. In the 1950's, I was the fifth person to arrive upon the scene of a severe auto accident and the first one with mobile communications with which to call for help. Nowadays, the first four people would have cell phones. Even if I were the first on the scene, I would use my cell phone, not my mobile ham rig. I've been in that situation too, Cecil, and a lot more recently than the 1950s. Oh? Was that when you served the country in your "other ways?" Or was that when you shot bears for naval intellgence? No, that couldn't be you...was another who also served his country in "other ways." Or maybe you were the military hero "in a country at war?" No, that was your buddie wearing the little red hat of a morse monkey, a former REMF who implies all those things without being specific. You couldn't have been a "resident of Hawaii" scarfing up "club" calls for non-existant "radio clubs." No, that's another poster entirely, the captain of the "Hornblower" and the "Effluvia" motorboat (on that "three-hour tour"). And yes, if it were to happen today, my first reaction would be 911 on the cell phone. Only if that didn't work would I consider ham radio. But consider this: How many hams got their license so they could be the first on the scene with mobile emergency communications, compared with those who got their license because they thought "radio for its own sake" is fun? So, how many DID get their hobby radio license "just for being an 'emergency communicator?'" Aren't you the one with their pulse on the numbers and KNOWING what everyone's "intent and purpose" is? Of course you are! C'mon out with the "real reasons." Gotta love all those code-tested knowitalls. :-) beep beep, LA |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
On Feb 2, 7:24�pm, Mike Coslo wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote in news:z8Twh.51868$QU1.17938 @newssvr22.news.prodigy.net: wrote: I tried calling 911 once, but couldn't find the 11 key. * * * * - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Heh heh heh heh...that's a "keeper!" :-) LA |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
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Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
From: Mike Coslo on Fri, Feb 2 2007 6:53 pm
" wrote in On Feb 2, 7:10?am, Cecil Moore wrote: wrote: But what if it doesn't? Ham radio still has a lot to offer but not nearly as much as it once did. What can we do to make it more attractive? Sell diet plans and make-up kits at hamfests? :-) Get Jenny Craig to sponsor a ham gathering? Might help! Hmmm...some shows on HGTV cable channel are shot just a mile-plus from here over in Burbank. Maybe I'll make a few local calls and see if anyone wants to make some noise about that. Sorry, the FOOD channel is already doing shows about ham for Easter. :-) Thing one - there never will be a huge number of hams. True. "The FEW, the Proud, the United States Hams!" Well, the lack of sales-marketing efforts to buy ad space in amateur radio periodicals caused at least 2 1/2 ham magazines to quit in the USA in the last two decades. That was happening even as the numbers of licensees were peaking about three years ago. Thing two - I've seen firsthand the damage that the grouchy olde tymers can do. They chase people away. Old timers with an attitude are now the greatest danger to Ham radio. I agree with you there. As an admitted "old timer" I know what my chronological contemporaries are like and do NOT like some of it. Putting together a station is fun. Talking around the world without a structure is fun. Learning about all that Radio encompasses is fun. Talking with friends old and new about radio is fun Sure. It's an excellent hobby with great learning-of-new-technology capability on top of it. Fun, fun, fun, fun for everyone! No, I disagree. There are lots of controlled-mind pedants (some with black uniforms) in here who DEMAND Perfect Professionalism in an amateur activity. One MUST do as they say..."or else." They are the Masters and disrespect of them is Forbidden! Listening to someone bemoan CB'ers, nickle extras, and how their prowess in CW makes them superior, how Hams really had it hard in the old days, any idiot can become a ham nowadays, next thing yaknow, they will be giving licenses away on boxes of cereal type hams, and onandon is not fun. It is Great FUN for Them. They LIKE putting on their "superior" act. That type would be helping the ARS best by turning in their license. Or at least having the decency to keep their hate to themselves. Masters need not heed the "inferior" beings. They are immortal and rule all, know all. Tsk, FCC 06-178 is going to become LEGAL FACT in a few days. The Masters still can't come to grips with that, not even if they pile on the nice-nice hypocrisy now as compared to their self-centered, subjective BS of the recent past. Little people. Amateur professionals. LA |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
From: Dave Heil on Sat, 03 Feb
2007 19:32:42 GMT wrote: On Feb 2, 8:09?pm, wrote: On Feb 2, 10:16?pm, Cecil Moore wrote: wrote: What does amateur radio not offer now that it once did? One example: First on the scene with emergency mobile communications. In the 1950's, I was the fifth person to arrive upon the scene of a severe auto accident and the first one with mobile communications with which to call for help. Nowadays, the first four people would have cell phones. Even if I were the first on the scene, I would use my cell phone, not my mobile ham rig. I've been in that situation too, Cecil, and a lot more recently than the 1950s. Oh? Was that when you served the country in your "other ways?" You are so intimate with Miccolis that you speak for him? Miccolis, as usual, INFERRED something but never supplied any details. Inference is NOT fact. That fine example of the modern American amateur extra, Steven James Robeson was doing that for years. Never supplied ANY true, references of HIS involvement. That is like another who INFERRED combat experience "in a country at war," yet never supplied any references to same. I've never been very specific with you about my Vietnam service because I've seen the kind of things you have done to others. Bull****. Rhymes with bluffing. You never did much in Vietnam therefore you don't have any details to supply. You were never in combat against the Viet Cong and at best, got into barracks brawls. It's the Robesin syndrome. You are just a clone of Robesin. I know exactly what I did in Japan, have even made available a publicly-accessible photo essay on it...plus made a publicly-available digital copy of what my Signal Battalion produced a few years after I was returned to the States. I am still in contact with both civilian and military personnel who worked at the same signal facilities I did and at the same time. That's not INFERRING anydamnthing. It is history. It is FACT. It has been reviewed by people that were there and no "faults" or "mistakes" were found. I've done no boasting about my service in Southeast Asia and have not gotten into specifics. You said you were "in a country at war." So were millions of other military NON-combatants. You were a REMF. I've never claimed any heroics nor have I described any artillery barrages. USAF enlisted personnel seldom trained for artillery spotting and only commissioned officers were forward observers for air strikes. I was given training as an artillery spotter in addition to doing regular Signal Corps duties. "Provisional Infantry Platoon" training in basic fighting skills was standard practice in the US Army during the 1950s, involving all those NOT in the "line" outfits (infantry, artillery, armor). How much military training has Miccolis received? Answer: NONE. He's never even served his government as a civilian. He wants to "lecture me" on how I treat REAL military veterans? He thinks he is "better" than those who served in the military. Maybe your romance with him is going sour? You are the individual who made the now famous sphincter post about what it was like to undergo an artillery barrage, except that you were never in an artillery barrage. It is "famous" only in that you choose to highlight it. But, you should have used the proper word - INFAMOUS. Factual error, minus one point for Heil. I was learning how to DIRECT artillery fall as an artillery forward observer. Training. When one battery goofs and a six rounds fall mistakenly within a couple hundred yards of an observer team, one KNOWS what it must feel like to enemies. That includes the cadre who were regular artillerymen. They were definitely NOT happy with what happened. Another factual error of Heil's, now at two negative points. That ties in nicely with your posts over a ten year period here. You don't believe my PDF on Hal Hallikainen's website is factual? Have you any proof that it is false? Can you testify to that in a court of law? Or are you just testy? I've stated in the beginning in here, and continuously up to now that my purpose was the advocacy of elimination of the code test for a license. No more, no less. You and other bluffmanship extras kept inferring it was otherwise. FCC 06-178 is a "go for launch." It WILL HAPPEN. Code test go bye-bye. Very, very soon. Big 5-point Bonus Factual Error on Heil's part, score now at -7. You rant about getting into amateur radio but you've never gotten into amateur radio or even tried to do so. "Rant?!?" :-) Ooooo! Ooooo! BIG 25-POINT FACTUAL ERROR! [Heil now at -32!] Tsk, tsk, tsk...WTF do you think my GETTING INTO big time HF comms was? Three years worth of 24/7 comms, long-haul stuff...*NO* "license" or morse code skill required. Did you think a single test sitting for a First Radiotelephone (Commercial) license was an easy thing that one could just waltz through?!? In 1956. 90-mile train trip to Chicago (no snow, no hills, kept shoes on during that March trip). Riiiight...you consider a whole working career in electronics (including "radio"), relying on a paycheck for food and shelter to be a NOTHING compared to the almighty high-rate-morse-tested amateur extra rank- status-privilege you puff out your chest about? Wow, all that from an EX-federally-employed State Department "veteran" who got to be Mr. DX complete with living accomodations. Riiiight...we real workers in the electronics industry are all pikers in your pointy little mind, couldn't possibly be as saintly as you pensioners. To you the real Pros must seem less than ****, worse than river-bottom slime, right? Sweaty, my 1951 high school yearbook has a mention of "work done towards amateur radio." In real ink on real paper. Wanna see? Wanna shove it up yer bum? After the ignorance of adolescence I got into the REAL world. Realized that AMATEUR radio was a HOBBY, not the "profession" that so many want to imagine in their own fantasies. Now, a HOBBY is a fine thing. I am still fascinated by "radio" (a subset of the larger, miraculous technology of ELECTRONICS). I stay aware and informed about as much as I can and, once in a while, do some work for actual money! That limits what I've been doing for a hobby for over a half century (the last 42 years in my center-of-the-house workshop, rebuilt to that by me). No sweat. It's all enjoyable. Why do you think you are so double-damned "important" that you can act so arrogant, bossy, and self-righteous in here? Amateur radio is basically a HOBBY. "Radio" technology is neither a secret to nor separate from all other radio services in the USA. The FCC doesn't restrict communications from ONLY amateurs about the amateur radio service. It doesn't restrict ANY citizen from commenting on ANY US civil radio service. Got that, pale rider? After 23 Feb 07 there will be NO requirements for morse code skill to obtain ANY amateur radio license. Yet you just can't get it, can you? Your years of posturing and preening as the mighty macho morseman "masters" are of NO value except to you and other pale riders of the Four Morsemen of the Apolcalypse. Do you have your finger on the pulse of amateur radio, Leonard? No, only what the ARRL and a handful of other ham radio websites show. The ARRL is, or very shortly will be, in a crisis condition on memberships. They need the members to sustain their proof-of-readership so that they can sell ad space in QST to keep it alive. Their large publication and re-sell business side of the house is making all the cash that sustains their "free" services for members. If I want fairy stories all I need to do is tickle one of the self-righteous, self-defined "experts in radio" (morsemen all) to hear fairy stories about the "service to the nation" of hamateur radio. Lord knows they want to spout that **** often enough in here without provocation. If I want REAL information on US amateur radio, I can go to dozens of friends and acquaintences, people I KNOW, have worked with, are friends in-person, not the pseudo-friendship of on-line-only familiarity. They will level with me. YOU will NOT. You never have. Of course you are! C'mon out with the "real reasons." Gotta love all those code-tested knowitalls. :-) One who has passed a Morse Code exam or an amateur radio written exam has done one more thing than you've done. Ooooo! Oooooo! I guess you think you "really told me" dintcha? :-) I've never gotten a Masters degree, never gotten a PhD, never breast-fed an infant, never put on women's clothing, never done a cylinder replacement on a car engine, never cured cancer, never climbed Mt. Everest, never tried out to be an astronaut, never flew an ultra-light, never "pioneered the (radio) airwaves" in the 1930s, never did hang-gliding, never ran a marathon, never stood watch on 500 KHz as a coastie, never "slept with" a man, never got divorced, never ran away from a good fight. Wanna call me a "failure?!?" Wanna pick up those teeth of yours littering the floor? :-) You're still sitting on the sidelines, telling us which play the coach *should* have sent in. "Telling YOU something?" IMPOSSIBLE! Nobody can tell YOU what you don't want to hear. "Sidelines:" Attempt at a metaphor. A typical football (American version) is a hundred yards long, narrow. But, it is bordered by THE REST OF THE WORLD! 99+ percent of all the rest of the world ARE on the "sidelines!" I live in the real world. Not some closed, private little enclave of dreamers thinking They are some kind of masters of radio. Little men. Pretenders at being professional as amateurs. Oxymoronic. Brain damage from lack of honest oxygen, turning into moronic mumblers about "superiority." Keep your mighty Rank-Status-Titles as long as you can. It seems to be all you have...besides bigotry and sociopathy rampant in your clan and sept. Little man. FU, LA |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
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Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
The technical aspect of it will sell at a fairly low level until the chinese put a man on the moon, then the politico's will scream about how the US is being eclipsed technically, and we start having sputnik flashbacks. then parents may encourage their children to look at technical pursuits. I agree that the ATV ballooning aspect is a good approach for generating interest. I was heading up a ballooning effort when other ARS related activities made it take a back seat. But it has the potential for some really interesting work that amateurs can participate in. Amateur TV on a balloon or maybe by a ham in a Cesna airplane would be interesting. Also, along with the NTSC link, do a digital TV one as well (the encoder and modulator side of things can be bought at not outrageous cost, and the receive end can be a consumer digital TV tuned to a "cable" channel that happens to be the ham band). "Yeah, but a cell phone does that", but not at this level of picture quality. |
Will "no code" license result in meaningful growth?
Thing one - there never will be a huge number of hams. Thing two - I've seen firsthand the damage that the grouchy olde tymers can do. They chase people away. Old timers with an attitude are now the greatest danger to Ham radio. Putting together a station is fun. Talking around the world without a structure is fun. Most people don't realize how much infrastructure it takes to have flame wars on newsgroups via the Internet. :-) They need to understand that before they can appreciate that hams can talk to other hams worldwide without any infrastructure other than their own radios and antennas. Learning about all that Radio encompasses is fun. Talking with friends old and new about radio is fun Fun, fun, fun, fun for everyone! Listening to someone bemoan CB'ers, nickle extras, and how their prowess in CW makes them superior, how Hams really had it hard in the old days, any idiot can become a ham nowadays, next thing yaknow, they will be giving licenses away on boxes of cereal type hams, and on and on is not fun. "No kids, no lids, and no space cadets!".... The ARRL should place a few ads in CB magazines to announce the no code HF licenses. Not that we would want "freebander" style activity to leak into the ham bands, but some "freebanders" may want to "repent" and get into legal radio (sure, it sounds hokey, but what the hell...). But it needs to be clear that they must quit the "freeband" once they become hams. And maybe some elmers can help them convert that "lynaear" into a clean and proper linear for 10m.... |
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