I just bought a 2-way radio that supports both GMRS and FRS:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000093IK8

I actually have no plan to use the GMRS channels at all. My question is: If
I only use FRS, do I still need to apply for a license?

When I placed the order, I was told: "GMRS channels require FCC license. ".
I assume this means FRS channels do not require FCC license, unless the
Amazon.com description is misleading.

Please help me with this issue so that I can start to use my radio!

Thanks!
Thomas

The FCC page at URL:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/personal/family/
Will answer your questions
Better to get it from the Horse's mouth rather than any guesses you may
receive.

Although you "actually have no plan to use the GMRS channels at all". Why
not get the license and make full use of your radio ??? Comes the day you
may want or need it.


"thomas" wrote in message
...
I just bought a 2-way radio that supports both GMRS and FRS:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000093IK8

I actually have no plan to use the GMRS channels at all. My question is:
If
I only use FRS, do I still need to apply for a license?

When I placed the order, I was told: "GMRS channels require FCC license.
".
I assume this means FRS channels do not require FCC license, unless the
Amazon.com description is misleading.

Please help me with this issue so that I can start to use my radio!

Thanks!
Thomas

Thank you!

I read the official FCC text carefully. But I'm now even more confused:

"If you operate a radio that has been approved exclusively under the rules
that apply to FRS, you are not required to have a license. FRS radios have a
maximum power of ? watt (500 milliwatt) effective radiated power and
integral (non-detachable) antennas. If you operate a radio under the rules
that apply to GMRS, you must have a GMRS license. GMRS radios generally
transmit at higher power levels (1 to 5 watts is typical) and may have
detachable antennas."

If my radio has been approved under both FRS and GMRS, the text above
**seems** to suggest that I may need a license. Can you or someone
clarifies for me?

The only reason I don't want to use GMRS is the license fee. The radio is
very cheap even with GMRS support.

Thomas





"AMHAM73" wrote in message
news:ysjKa.79947$Pc5.13298@fed1read01...
The FCC page at URL:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/personal/family/
Will answer your questions
Better to get it from the Horse's mouth rather than any guesses you may
receive.

Although you "actually have no plan to use the GMRS channels at all". Why
not get the license and make full use of your radio ??? Comes the day you
may want or need it.


"thomas" wrote in message
...
I just bought a 2-way radio that supports both GMRS and FRS:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000093IK8

I actually have no plan to use the GMRS channels at all. My question
is:
If
I only use FRS, do I still need to apply for a license?

When I placed the order, I was told: "GMRS channels require FCC
license.
".
I assume this means FRS channels do not require FCC license, unless the
Amazon.com description is misleading.

Please help me with this issue so that I can start to use my radio!

Thanks!
Thomas

If you operate a radio under the rules
that apply to GMRS, you must have a GMRS license

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, you better get a duck license.






"thomas" wrote in message
...
Thank you!

I read the official FCC text carefully. But I'm now even more confused:

"If you operate a radio that has been approved exclusively under the rules
that apply to FRS, you are not required to have a license. FRS radios have
a
maximum power of ? watt (500 milliwatt) effective radiated power and
integral (non-detachable) antennas. If you operate a radio under the rules
that apply to GMRS, you must have a GMRS license. GMRS radios generally
transmit at higher power levels (1 to 5 watts is typical) and may have
detachable antennas."

If my radio has been approved under both FRS and GMRS, the text above
**seems** to suggest that I may need a license. Can you or someone
clarifies for me?

The only reason I don't want to use GMRS is the license fee. The radio is
very cheap even with GMRS support.

Thomas





"AMHAM73" wrote in message
news:ysjKa.79947$Pc5.13298@fed1read01...
The FCC page at URL:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/personal/family/
Will answer your questions
Better to get it from the Horse's mouth rather than any guesses you may
receive.

Although you "actually have no plan to use the GMRS channels at all".
Why
not get the license and make full use of your radio ??? Comes the day
you
may want or need it.


"thomas" wrote in message
...
I just bought a 2-way radio that supports both GMRS and FRS:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000093IK8

I actually have no plan to use the GMRS channels at all. My question
is:
If
I only use FRS, do I still need to apply for a license?

When I placed the order, I was told: "GMRS channels require FCC
license.
".
I assume this means FRS channels do not require FCC license, unless
the
Amazon.com description is misleading.

Please help me with this issue so that I can start to use my radio!

Thanks!
Thomas

"thomas" wrote in message ...
Thank you!

I read the official FCC text carefully. But I'm now even more confused:

"If you operate a radio that has been approved exclusively under the rules
that apply to FRS, you are not required to have a license. FRS radios have a
maximum power of ? watt (500 milliwatt) effective radiated power and
integral (non-detachable) antennas. If you operate a radio under the rules
that apply to GMRS, you must have a GMRS license. GMRS radios generally
transmit at higher power levels (1 to 5 watts is typical) and may have
detachable antennas."

If my radio has been approved under both FRS and GMRS, the text above
**seems** to suggest that I may need a license. Can you or someone
clarifies for me?

The only reason I don't want to use GMRS is the license fee. The radio is
very cheap even with GMRS support.

Thomas

Look - the GMRS feature on these radios is a USELESS GIMMICK. Forget
about using those frequencies or getting a license for them.

On 25 Jun 2003 18:16:28 -0700, (stewart) wrote:

Look - the GMRS feature on these radios is a USELESS GIMMICK. Forget
about using those frequencies or getting a license for them.

I just renewed my GMRS license (for the second time) so I could use my
new T4500.

With all that power super-gain antenna I don't want to take any
chances. : )

Mike

G. M. Alf writes:

With all that power super-gain antenna I don't want to take any
chances. : )

I hesitate to post this, as it's about ham radio gain antennas, but it _is_
about a super-gain antenna, so I'll yield to temptation.
````````someone else's report````````````
Subject: Antenna Design

Greetings from Tokyo and all the members of TIARA (Tokyo International
Amateur Radio Association). I know I promised you a series of articles
on Japanese amateur radio, but there is something so exciting I just
have to take a break and tell you about it.

It all started with the work that Ed Coan (AH7L/7J1AAE) did on antenna
pattern plotting using his personal computer and the A-to-D converter in
his FT-1000. The circular, and even backward antenna patterns of some
of our local TIARA club members brought home the point that what a good
station needs is a good antenna. Ed's antenna looks great and the
results verify it. He works regular schedules into Colorado and Maine,
just like sunspots don't mean anything. My mini-beam just could not
compare.

Well, I got to thinking about what we Tokyo apartment dwellers could do
and realized that space is THE problem. How do you fit a full-sized beam
on a balcony? Loading coils are the answer and the problem at the same
time -- the antenna radiation resistance drops as reactance is
substituted for length. High current loops develop and the power is
dissipated in the antenna instead of being radiated. If only the antenna
didn't dissipate the power. Hmmm....let's see, P=3DE2 /R; now if R
were 0 then...

From my work, I have some contacts in research groups over at Tokyo
University. Better yet, I knew a Japanese ham that is a graduate student
there. The thought running through my head was to build a
super-conducting antenna. This requires cryogenics, i.e. temperatures
around minus 279 degrees Centigrade. I was able get the university folks
interested in the project and we built a 10-meter dipole test silicon
wafer. They put together a lot of serial coils by "re-work" on the
wafer; they were able to connect them so we had a super-conducting yagi.
I took my TS-930 transceiver down to the lab for the first tests, but
before we could test it, actual measurements showed it was resonant on
3.126 MHz. It seems that the normal equations for inductance don't work
with super-conducting materials =97 you need a lot fewer turns to get the
same results compared to room temperature. Many measurements and trials
later, we had a ten-meter resonant wafer. This time we put a 40-element
beam on each wafer and stacked 4 wafers in the same assembly. That made
a 160-element array on 10-meters in less than a half-foot cube (15 cm3).

The first test didn't go too well. I connected my TS-930 to the
super-conducting wafer antenna and tuned it for 10 meters. At room
temperature, we couldn't hear anything. Using a heat pump, the lab
technicians started lowering the antenna's temperature toward the
super-conducting region. I was really impressed by how small the
equipment is, and started thinking it might all fit in the shack. Just
then, the TS-930 froze solid, which had a negative effect on its
operating characteristics. This wouldn't be so easy after all; the coax
connection would need some study!

We reworked the wafers to put inductive coupling on them, but I could
find no way to efficiently couple to it from the conducting array.
Fortunately the lab technicians came up with a new ceramic material that
passed RF but not heat. Probably, something that Kyocera invented just
for this use. I sent the TS-930 to the ham shop in Akihabara and asked
them to touch it up for me. My friend Suzuki-San, JH1WWC (store manager
at the ham shop), asked exactly how the paint had been peeled off around
the coax connector -- lightning maybe? No, I assured him -- just low
temperature exposure, without saying how low the temperatures were. The
project had to stay secret and besides, Suzuki-San can repair anything!

Since it looked like it might be a while before the TS-930 would be
repaired, I brought out my TS-940. I had already placed an order for a
Yaesu FT-1000 anyway. After verifying that in the super-onducting range
the antenna was resonant on 10-meters, we connected the TS-940. The
ceramic material worked and the rig operated well as we began the
cooling cycle. The band seemed dead even with the antenna at -150
degrees C. It took another 10 minutes to get to the super-conducting
range -- then the TS-940 blew up. It seems our antenna had a bit more
gain than the TS-940 front-end could take. Later measurements showed 500
volts coming out of the coax. A little hard to believe, but then what do
I know about cryogenic LSI antenna technology? The TS-940 was also
returned to Suzuki-San, but this time he frowned a bit -- the front-end
board did look like it had been hit by lightning. Not to worry,
Suzuki-San can repair anything!

The FT-1000 arrived just in time to be able to continue experiments. We
built a QSK attenuator to protect the receiver. With the LSI wafer
antenna still inside the lab, we decided to try to make a contact on
10-meters. What a shock when we got it working! The first thing we heard
was a couple of W2's talking locally on 10 meters and that was with 80
dB of attenuation. We had the antenna array on a rotatable mount; I
moved it about a half-degree and the W2's disappeared. What beam width!
We tuned them in again, and they were just about to sign off, so we
thought we would try to work them. The rig was tuned up at 50 watts on a
dummy load; we switched in the wafer antenna and gave N2BA a call. The
noise was unbelievable -- an ionized ray shot out from the antena and
hit the wall of the building. Before we knocked a hole in the band, we
took a piece out of the lab wall! Ever wonder what an antenna pattern
looks like in three dimensions? There was a oval hole in the wall of the
lab -- about 1-cm high by 2-cm wide. We cut power quickly. N2BA came
back on frequency a few minutes later and said he was using his back-up
rig; something had taken his main rig off the air. For some reason, the
station he was talking to never came back, so we decided not to transmit
again until we knew for sure what was going on.

As near as we can tell, the antenna array has 620-dB gain over a
dipole, but with a beamwidth of 0.75 degrees using the 60-dB points.
With 50 watts output, the effective radiated power is 55 quadrillion
watts at the center of the beam (5.5 with 13 zeroes). As soon as the
University realized what we had built, the entire project was taken away
from us and turned over to the Japanese Self-Defense Force. Amateur
radio "tinkering" has contributed to something, but I am not exactly
sure what. I haven't the slightest idea what was in those wafers or how
to build another set. Do you think someone may be interested in this
idea for Star Wars/SDI?? What I'd give to use a much smaller set in the
next CQ World Wide Contest!

A few months later, the University contacted all of us and asked just
how close we had been to the antenna when operating. As best as I can
figure, we were in the null behind the array. From what has been said so
far, it looks like a secondary use for our antenna may be as a mass
sterilizer, but confirmation will have to await the results of our
medical tests. If our antenna ever hits the market, it looks like remote
operation may be desirable.

As I am writing this, I have been informed that my friend Suzuki-San
can't fix everything after all. He's written off the TS-930 and TS-940,
and I just found out that before the university terminated the project,
they tried one more time with my FT-1000, but without the 100-dB
attenuator to protect the receiver. Its front-end now matches the 940's
and it looks like it will be a while before I am on the air again.
``````````end of someone else's report````````````

I'm sorry to say the reporter never specifies if he's using dBi.
--
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | civex.com is read daily.

Do they perform as well as the FRS only radio's? They do look small enough.

"G. M. Alf" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jun 2003 18:16:28 -0700, (stewart) wrote:

Look - the GMRS feature on these radios is a USELESS GIMMICK. Forget
about using those frequencies or getting a license for them.

I just renewed my GMRS license (for the second time) so I could use my
new T4500.

With all that power super-gain antenna I don't want to take any
chances. : )

Mike

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:34:10 -0400, "thomas"
wrote:

Thank you!

I read the official FCC text carefully. But I'm now even more confused:

"If you operate a radio that has been approved exclusively under the rules
that apply to FRS, you are not required to have a license. FRS radios have a
maximum power of ? watt (500 milliwatt) effective radiated power and
integral (non-detachable) antennas. If you operate a radio under the rules
that apply to GMRS, you must have a GMRS license. GMRS radios generally
transmit at higher power levels (1 to 5 watts is typical) and may have
detachable antennas."

If my radio has been approved under both FRS and GMRS, the text above
**seems** to suggest that I may need a license. Can you or someone
clarifies for me?

The only reason I don't want to use GMRS is the license fee. The radio is
very cheap even with GMRS support.

Thomas

On FRS channels 8 - 14 the radio IS an FRS radio. You do not need a
license to operate it on those channels.

Mike

"thomas" wrote in message ...
Thank you!

I read the official FCC text carefully. But I'm now even more confused:

"If you operate a radio that has been approved exclusively under the rules
that apply to FRS, you are not required to have a license. FRS radios have a
maximum power of ? watt (500 milliwatt) effective radiated power and
integral (non-detachable) antennas. If you operate a radio under the rules
that apply to GMRS, you must have a GMRS license. GMRS radios generally
transmit at higher power levels (1 to 5 watts is typical) and may have
detachable antennas."

The "FRS" channels were interstitial frequencies of the GMRS in
the first place. That's why GMRS can still use them.

Only a radio specifically designed for FRS applications may be
used license free. Any other radio is GMRS and must be licensed.

If my radio has been approved under both FRS and GMRS, the text above
**seems** to suggest that I may need a license. Can you or someone
clarifies for me?

The only reason I don't want to use GMRS is the license fee. The radio is
very cheap even with GMRS support.

I agree with Phil...Pop for the GMRS license...One day you'll
need it and it will save your bacon...Or at least save you from an FCC
NAL!

73

Steve, K4CAP