In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes:

So, it's your blatant disregard for the possibility that "future hams" will
be quite interested in CW and will learn the mode just because they *WANTED*
to and not because it was required? You didn't learn CW because you wanted
to but because you had to. So, what're you gonna say to those who will
obviously be a better ham than you because they learned CW out of wanting
to, not needing to?

Kim W5TIT

Well, Kim, if any show up, I'll be the first to congratulate them! However,
I hope you'll forgive me for not holding my breath in the meantime! You
see, I've become somewhat accustomed to the occasional whiff of oxygen!

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , "Bill Sohl"
writes:

Bill:

Nice try, but not quite the same thing. A prospective ham not wanting to
learn and/or use the Morse code is like a prospective golfer not wanting
to learn how to putt, because all he wants to do is drive golf balls for
distance. Well, even I can drive a bucket balls at the range to kill an
afternoon, but I'd never call myself a "golfer."

Morse/CW is an essential communications skill for anyone who is going
to consider him/herself to be an effective amateur radio operator.

So you will claim tillhell freezes over I assume. Only
problem is, your claim failed at the only place that
counts...the FCC.

Bill:

Of course it did. The FCC is a government bureaucracy that serves
mainly commercial interests. Amateur Radio just isn't important enough
to them to be bothered to expend the resources necessary to maintain
high licensing standards as the had in the past. No mystery there.

This
is the one skill which gives them the ability to keep on communicating
under adverse conditions that put an end to communication using less
robust or more equipment and electrical capacity-dependent modes. It
gives us the ultimate in emergency backup communications capability,
which is ever-so important and politically-correct for hams these days.

So how come the other services abondoned morse as such a
valuable back-up?

Again, follow the money and you'll learn the truth. The cost of hiring,
training, and providing pay and benefits to CW-proficient radio operators
is the key factor in play here. But you already knew that. Moreover,
these "other services" you're talking about use high-powered satellite-
based technology which is designed for their specific purposes. But
you already knew that, as well. When you make apples-to-oranges
comparisons between the all-volunteer Amateur Radio Service and
publicly- or commercially-funded communications services, your argument
falls flat on it's face. And if you didn't already know that, you're just as
deluded as any other NCTA.

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:

The only reason I learned code was that it was required to upgrade
beyond Technician class. Passing the code test would have made me a
Tech Plus and earned me some phone privileges on 10m and CW on several
other bands...except that I took the General class written at the same
VE session, and passed it, walking out with General class privileges.

At that point, I could communicate using CW at 5 WPM. At the same
point, I could also communicate using phone at a significantly faster
rate than 5 WPM since I can speak a lot faster than that. I could
also communicate using PSK31 at a significantly faster rate than 5 WPM
since I can type a lot faster than that. Thus, for me the use of
another mode is more efficient for me than to use CW. I would actually
be a less capable communicator if I used CW than I am using another
mode. My facing the code testing requirement did not affect my ability
to speak or to type.

John:

I agree that Morse code proficiency has nothing to do with speaking or
typing -- but the ability to effectively employ the Morse/CW mode -- at
speeds greater than 5 WPM -- will keep you communicating when conditions
prevent you from communicating by voice or digital modes. You have done
nothing but provide personal, anecdotal proof that reducing code testing
requirements down to a mere 5 WPM maximum was NOT a good thing!

Well, everyone's estimate of their "enjoyment" of ham radio is a subjective
thing. However, in this age where we're trying to justify our hold on
literally
billions of dollars worth of commercially viable spectrum, we place a great
emphasis on our capabilities as "emergency" communicators. Unfortunately,
the least reliable modes we employ are those that depend on voice
communication -- and these modes are the first to "go South" when
atmospheric conditions and man-made interference do not operate in our
favor.

These days, the vast majority of emergency communications is done on a
local basis, primarily on 2m using FM repeaters and simplex. 70cm is
probably the next most widely used band for this purpose. Neither is
subject to the propagation difficulties often encountered on HF.

True -- when the "emergency" is confined to a small locality and the VHF/
UHF repeater infrastructure remains intact. However, what if there is a
widespread disaster -- such as the "Big One" striking the San Andreas fault
line in California? That will not be a "local" disaster -- it will affect the
entire country. Vast regions hundreds of miles in radius will be affected,
and the commercial communications and existing Amateur Radio
infrastructures and the power grids they depend on will be disrupted for
God only knows how long. At that point, we could be talking about areas
with populations of hundreds of thousands of people being out of
communication with the area "outside" the disaster zone. Communications
nets spanning many times the normal operational range of terresterial
VHF/UHF systems will be necessary -- and don't look now, but we're
coming to the downside of the solar cycle -- meaning poor propagation.
I guarantee you that there will be lots of opportunities for No-Code HF
Ham Heroes to help out, but when conditions dictate the use of CW, in
order to be able to communicate when voice and data modes fail due to
lack of available electrical power or poor atmospherics, that capability
will not be available because it will not have been learned. That's when
some guy like me will enter the picture, and say, "Step aside, Sonny,
and take your toy microphone with you." Then he'll plug in his key and
re-establish contact with the outside world. Of course, you will never
be convinced that that could happen -- so you'll just have to hope it doesn't.
In the meantime, I'll be ready!

In my own estimation, the biggest problem with emergency
communications in the ARS right now isn't the people who don't know
CW, it's the people who think their 5-watt (or 2-watt, or 150
mkilliwatt) HT and its 650mAh battery pack is all they need to
function as an emergency communicator when the proverbial merde hits
the proverbial ventillateur.

Well, unfortunately, there are lots of new Ham Heroes who believe
precisely that, and they belive that their possession of the HT and
650 mAh battery pack makes them a "real" ham radio operator!

Morse/CW allows us to overcome the majority of those obstacles,
but only those who know how to effectively employ this mode are qualified
to make that judgment.

Actually, it's the agencies served by our ARES and RACES and other
emergency communications groups who are best qualified to judge the
effectiveness of our contributions. The ones I've worked with so far
have expressed high praise for the efforts of our team of hams, and we
have yet to use CW during an activation.

That is the usual case. However, I did impress the begeebers out of one
certain county EOC Director by using CW during a practice exercise.
Then he asked me, "Why can all the other hams do that? I can see where
Morse code could be very effective. You were copying that other guy (who
was in Indiana -- I was in Delaware) perfectly even though I could hardly
hear him!"

Therefore, your argument about "enjoyment" is,
as are most NCTA arguments, self-serving at best.

Apples and oranges, perhaps. Only the most masochistic among us would
claim to actually enjoy pulling a 12- or 14-hour shift in a chilly EOC
or standing in a street in the middle of an ice storm. Emergency
communications isn't done for enjoyment. DX'ing, contesting, and
casual ragchewing are done for enjoyment, and if one enjoys using CW
for such activities, there's nothing stopping anyone from doing so.
For those who do not enjoy using CW, the same activities can also be
enjoyed using other modes.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

I don't think anyone's going to confuse emergency communications with
anything enjoyable. However, in order to have total communications
capability, leaving out Morse/CW capability just doesn't make sense to me.
We're going the wrong way on that, and the only reason for it is because
people these days are just too damn LAZY to learn a useful communications
skill. End of story.

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , Alun Palmer
writes:


What about me? I passed 20wpm and choose not to use it atall? No doubt I
will be told I'm missing out, but I'm doing exactly what I want to.

Alun:

Feel free to do as you please, but you're right -- you're missing
out on a lot of fun if you don't use CW on-the-air!

73 de Larry, K3LT

"JJ" wrote in part ...

John, you have to realize that Larry and his huge ego are just waiting for
the above scenario to happen so he can "save the world" with his CW skills.
He is in complete denial that when this big disaster happens, he and his CW
skills will mean nothing. I can just see him waving his code key shouting "I
can save the day with my CW" at the officials who will laugh their ass off
at him.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

This EMA Director won't. I have already incorporated CW in my Emergency
Management Plans. It's a great tool to have (in conjunction with the other
available communications modes). I actually feel sorry for those in EMA,
and Amateur Radio, that discount it. We put it to great use during
Hurricane Floyd in 1999, and I'm sure we'll use it again in the future.
Your 40 years as a Ham apparently haven't taught you very much. It's always
better to leave Emergency Management Planning to the professionals. You
just proved it.

Arnie -
KT4ST

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


I never said I was "the original expert" ... but I have logged many hundreds
of
hours of emergency comms service in my over 25 years as a ham ... and never
had to use CW (not that anyone else in the ARES or RACES teams would have
suggested it either ...)

Since the beginning of the use of phone in ham radio, I would be
interested to know of any disaster where ham radio was used for
communications and CW was the only means of communications that
could get through. I don't mean CW was used just because someone
wanted to or because they only had CW capabilities, but because
it was the ONLY mode that could get through.

"JJ" wrote ...

BS, the services realized that with modern technology CW is an outdated,
antiquated mode, no longer useful to them. You are living in your ham radio
dream world too stubborn to see the truth.
__________________________________________________ ____________________

Hey JJ -- did you forget that SSB is over 60 years old? By your logic, it's
time to shut that antiquated puppy down as well. I mean, there are MUCH
more modern modes out there, right? Or are you too stubborn to see the
truth?

Arnie -
KT4ST

"Alun Palmer" wrote ...

What about me? I passed 20wpm and choose not to use it at all? No doubt I
will be told I'm missing out, but I'm doing exactly what I want to.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

I would probably be one of those that would say that. But, I also believe
that it's your choice to make once you have passed the test. However, once
learned (especially at 20wpm) you will never lose the ability to use it.
Rusty maybe, but it will always be there.

Arnie -
KT4ST

"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...


JJ wrote:

Larry Roll K3LT wrote:

Were it not for the occasional usefulness of the 2-meter band to
"real" ham radio operators like you and me,

With you and Dick holding yourselves up as "real" hams, I can see
why some turn their back on ham radio and stay on cb.

JJ, one does as one is. Even Forrest Gump knew that.
Look for excuses and there are always some to be found.



Dick,

If find your comparison of yourself (and Larry) to Forest Gump
to be most appropriate :-) "Stupid is as stupid does." was the
saying from the movie ... and while I don't actually think either
you or Larry actually ARE stupid, you both certainly ACT that
way.

Carl - wk3c

"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...

Larry, when you trim all the BS off the no-code position, all that's left
is
that they refuse to even acknowledge that the first existing, most basic
mode
of radiocommunications is even a viable mode of radiocommunications!

Dick,

That's simply not true ... OOK Morse is clearly still a viable mode of
communications ... (to use the much-used analogy, so is horseback
riding as a form of transcontinental transportation).

It's just that it's been bypassed by more modern, more efficient means
that that vast majority of people prefer.

Read again the "What we believe" on the NCI webpage ... nowhere does
it say that "Morse is not longer a viable mode." ... and it certainly
doesn't
say that we oppose its use.

Carl - wk3c