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Old July 7th 03, 06:27 AM
Steve Robeson, K4CAP
 
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Default Now That It's "Over"...

Once the official FCC changes are made, by whatever method, I wonder
how long it will take the unlicensed to become licensed...Now that
there's NO excuse remaining?

Just wondering.

Steve, K4YZ

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Old July 7th 03, 03:18 PM
Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
 
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On 6 Jul 2003 22:27:00 -0700, (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)
wrote:

Once the official FCC changes are made, by whatever method, I wonder
how long it will take the unlicensed to become licensed...Now that
there's NO excuse remaining?


It has long been my opinion that the single biggest quality that
distinguishes most hams from most operators in the personal radio
services such as CB, MURS, Marine VHF, GMRS, and so forth is that we
hams are not only interested in our own enjoyment of radio, but we
also have a genuine interest in others enjoying their use of their
privileges as well. There are of course exceptions on both sides of
the dividing line that one might consider the licensing process to
represent, but in general, most hams really want "the other guy" to
have an enjoyable experience when he (or she) goes on the air. We care
not only about ourselves, but about others as well.

As for those that do not, well, we've all seen troll messages posted
in this and other NG by such persons many times in the past. If such
folks continue to shun the ARS in the future, this is probably a good
thing for all parties concerned. Pirates - whether they are on the
so-called "freeband" or are simply bootleggers on the ham frequencies
or elsewhere, have that status by their own choice. I seriously doubt
that we will see a major influx of new hams from the ranks of people
who feel they are above such conventions as getting a license,
operating according to a set of regulations, and conducting themselves
in accordance with good amateur practice and gentlemen's agreements
and so forth.

Nevertheless, there most definitely are many operators in the other
radio services who do in fact possess this quality, and it is my hope
that we'll see them streaming into the VE sessions en masse once the
changes take effect. In fact, I'll be working to convince them to do
just that, and to get them into the club meetings and to help them
learn what they'll need to learn to fully enjoy their new privileges,
and I'll be encouraging others to do the same. As with other
opportunities given to us by such simplifications of the regulations,
it's up to us to either make the most of it or let the chance to do
some good on behalf of the ARS just slide on by...and I do believe
that those who are not part of the solution are part of the problem.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

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Old July 7th 03, 03:18 PM
Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
 
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Default

On 07 Jul 2003 11:11:10 GMT, (N2EY) wrote:


Here are some predictions for ya:


Hmmm...hang on, lemme wipe the dust off the crystal ball for ya
first....okay, go ahead.

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant change
in the written exams.


In the short term, probably not. In the long term, as the written
tests go through their normal revision and updating processes, I'd
expect and hope that the question pool committee members would begin
to include questions on practical operating knowledge in addition to
the questions on theory that are already part of the tests. I've long
felt that it was time for the CW testing requirement to go, but the
fact remains that it has indeed been the only practical skill (as
opposed to theoretical knowledge) tested, and I think that this does
need to change.

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant,
sustained increase in growth rate of the ARS. There may be a short term surge,
and lots of upgrades, but total numbers will not skyrocket.


Seems to me that the outcome, in this regard, is up to us. We have an
opportunity to start a significant influx of good operators into the
ARS provided we're willing to identify them and elmer them and welcome
them into the ranks, so to speak.

Those of us who go out of our way to meet these people and convince
them to get into the club meetings and the VE sessions, and who answer
questions and provide the guidance the newcomers will need and then
accept and respect them as fellow hams should, will be taking good
advantage of the opportunity.

Those of us who spend our time coming up with witty and derogatory
names like Extra Lite and insist on distinguishing between No-Code and
Know-Code and go out of their way to make people feel like
second-class citizens will be letting the opportunity just slide on by
and will be doing a disservice to the ARS.

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant change
in the modes and technologies used by hams. There will not be a
technorevolution, nor big increases in experimentation or homebrewing. Just
more of the same of what has been going on.


Again, this depends on us.

Hmmm...lemme see...we're faced with the possibility of having a lot of
newcomers with little or no practical experience WRT radio wave
propagation on the HF bands, and thus little knowledge on which to
base selection of a frequency band on which to begin making contacts
at any particular time. Isn't this exactly what ALE is supposed to do?
Yet, how many hams do you know of who have even heard of ALE, outisde
of those in this forum where I know the subject has come up
previously? How many hams in your local club know what ALE is? How
many would be willing to accept and use it if they did?

Let's see what happens in the UK. RSGB and RA have been pushing to drop the
code test for a long time. Maybe they won't be disappointed.

Just wondering.


Don't hold yer breath. The usual bureaucratic delay will slow things down here
in the USA. And remember, those who get the licenses after the change will be
raw, inexperienced newcomers, who will need our help and guidance as they are
welcomed into the ARS.


To use the British term: Bloody Well Right! Especially since there
will undoubtedly be those who will not welcome them at all, and in
fact do quite the opposite. Those of us who wish to take advantage of
this opportunity will have to work doubly hard in order to overcome
the harm done by the minority that will attempt to ostracize and chase
away the newcomers, forgetting that they were newcomers themselves
once upon a time.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

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Old July 7th 03, 07:19 PM
Mike Coslo
 
Posts: n/a
Default



N2EY wrote:
In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:


Once the official FCC changes are made, by whatever method, I wonder
how long it will take the unlicensed to become licensed...Now that
there's NO excuse remaining?



There's always an excuse, Steve.

Here are some predictions for ya:

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant change
in the written exams.


Too bad. I'd like to see the exam restructured


The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant,
sustained increase in growth rate of the ARS. There may be a short term surge,
and lots of upgrades, but total numbers will not skyrocket.


Agreed.


The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant change
in the modes and technologies used by hams. There will not be a
technorevolution, nor big increases in experimentation or homebrewing. Just
more of the same of what has been going on.


Agreed. I'd like to hear just what sort of technorevolution some people
were expecting.

Do people who do not have the time to take the morse code test have the
time to invent new modes? Do they have time to invent digital voice
modes that take up bandwidth than ssb?


Let's see what happens in the UK. RSGB and RA have been pushing to drop the
code test for a long time. Maybe they won't be disappointed.


Just wondering.



Don't hold yer breath. The usual bureaucratic delay will slow things down here
in the USA. And remember, those who get the licenses after the change will be
raw, inexperienced newcomers, who will need our help and guidance as they are
welcomed into the ARS.


And there you have one of the more interesting dilemmas to the ARS.

Is a brand new Extra, who has never been on HF, even accept Elmering?
Or will they insist that the conventions that have been developed over
the years are not applicable to them.

This is not as far-fetched as it may seem. I tried to help out a new
Extra in a contest once. I knew he did not have any HF experience at
all, yet he wanted a bare minimum of help. After showing him where the
PTT was, and how to change bands, I started to explain the structure of
a contest QSO. He interrupted me after the first sentence with a "not to
be rude, but I'll take over now". I came back the next morning and saw
the results of his work. Six QSO's! He was woring at the rate of 1 QSO
per hour under *good* band conditions!

Even in my own experience, I know that I had my extra before I should
have. I went from General to Extra in a little over 6 months.

I would propose that there be at least a year wait before upgrading to
Extra. Ya just can't gain enough operating knowledge in less time.



  #6   Report Post  
Old July 7th 03, 08:08 PM
Jack Twilley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"Mike" =3D=3D Mike Coslo writes:


[...]

Mike And there you have one of the more interesting dilemmas to the
Mike ARS.

Mike Is a brand new Extra, who has never been on HF, even accept
Mike Elmering? Or will they insist that the conventions that have
Mike been developed over the years are not applicable to them.

Some do, some don't. I know my limitations, and I accept assistance
and information from those who can help me.

Mike This is not as far-fetched as it may seem. I tried to help out a
Mike new Extra in a contest once. I knew he did not have any HF
Mike experience at all, yet he wanted a bare minimum of help. After
Mike showing him where the PTT was, and how to change bands, I
Mike started to explain the structure of a contest QSO. He
Mike interrupted me after the first sentence with a "not to be rude,
Mike but I'll take over now". I came back the next morning and saw
Mike the results of his work. Six QSO's! He was woring at the rate of
Mike 1 QSO per hour under *good* band conditions!

This is the opposite of my first HF contest experience -- just over a
year ago at Field Day. The group I was with was very gentle to new
contesters, to the point that they had written down precisely what we
were to say, what we needed to ask for, even to the point of reminding
us to wish other stations "good luck". This year's Field Day was the
first year that I ran a contest station unattended, and I was able to
provide some assistance to Technicians who wanted to work HF. It was
a good feeling, and I look forward to learning more if only to share
that knowledge with others.

Mike Even in my own experience, I know that I had my extra before I
Mike should have. I went from General to Extra in a little over 6
Mike months.

I went from Technician to Extra. I had my Technician ticket for two
years, and had only actually operated for six months before
upgrading.

Mike I would propose that there be at least a year wait before
Mike upgrading to Extra. Ya just can't gain enough operating
Mike knowledge in less time.

It's a good suggestion, but not something I'd like to see in FCC
regulations. Mileage may vary.

Jack.
=2D --=20
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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Old July 7th 03, 08:28 PM
Mike Coslo
 
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Default



Jack Twilley wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:


some snippage

Mike This is not as far-fetched as it may seem. I tried to help out a
Mike new Extra in a contest once. I knew he did not have any HF
Mike experience at all, yet he wanted a bare minimum of help. After
Mike showing him where the PTT was, and how to change bands, I
Mike started to explain the structure of a contest QSO. He
Mike interrupted me after the first sentence with a "not to be rude,
Mike but I'll take over now". I came back the next morning and saw
Mike the results of his work. Six QSO's! He was woring at the rate of
Mike 1 QSO per hour under *good* band conditions!

This is the opposite of my first HF contest experience -- just over a
year ago at Field Day. The group I was with was very gentle to new
contesters, to the point that they had written down precisely what we
were to say, what we needed to ask for, even to the point of reminding
us to wish other stations "good luck". This year's Field Day was the
first year that I ran a contest station unattended, and I was able to
provide some assistance to Technicians who wanted to work HF. It was
a good feeling, and I look forward to learning more if only to share
that knowledge with others.



Fortunately, everyone who Elmered me on HF ops was very kind.

If I were to make a guess on that guy's thoughts, he was probably
embarrassed at his inexperience. Not wanting to appear foolish, he just
acted brusque, and ended up looking foolish anyhoo.

- Mike KB3EIA -

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Old July 7th 03, 08:37 PM
Mike Coslo
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Robert Casey wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:


Is a brand new Extra, who has never been on HF, even accept
Elmering? Or will they insist that the conventions that have been
developed over the years are not applicable to them.

This is not as far-fetched as it may seem. I tried to help out a
new Extra in a contest once. I knew he did not have any HF experience
at all, yet he wanted a bare minimum of help. After showing him where
the PTT was, and how to change bands, I started to explain the
structure of a contest QSO. He interrupted me after the first sentence
with a "not to be rude, but I'll take over now". I came back the next
morning and saw the results of his work. Six QSO's! He was working at
the rate of 1 QSO per hour under *good* band conditions!

Always some idiots.... When I got my "extra lite" on restructuring
day, went home to fire up the
Kenwood HF rig I bought used (strung an antenna that vaguely resembled a
dipole before) and
listened around a bit to get a feel on how QSOs are done on HF. That
and some experience
on ten between 28.3 and 28.5 I started keying up the mic mostly to
respond to CQs. After some
newbie type errors I think I have the hang of it now..... With the
combination of a boring common
prefix callsign, low power (~50 watts) and a crummy antenna, you develop
some skill.
The key is to realize that when entering into a new environment, one may
not have all the
facts right, and be willing to adjust accordingly.


That's the way to do it. By the time, I got my General, I was actually
pretty used to HF operation. As a tech, I had operated in some contests
that the club participated in, plus a field day. (to the sticklers -
yes, with a control op)

They tricked me! Got me hooked on contesting, and I had no choice but
to upgrade!!! Well they really didn't trick me, but it worked out that
way anyhow.

But every time I try out a different mode, I spen weeks listening
before I ever transmit. I hope these new people will do the same.

- Mike KB3EIA


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Old July 7th 03, 11:54 PM
Dan/W4NTI
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message
om...
Mike Coslo wrote in message

...

This is not as far-fetched as it may seem. I tried to help out a new
Extra in a contest once. I knew he did not have any HF experience at
all, yet he wanted a bare minimum of help. After showing him where the
PTT was, and how to change bands, I started to explain the structure of
a contest QSO. He interrupted me after the first sentence with a "not to
be rude, but I'll take over now". I came back the next morning and saw
the results of his work. Six QSO's! He was woring at the rate of 1 QSO
per hour under *good* band conditions!


I know this type...Not from Amateur Radio, so much, but from
flying...They learned enough to get into the air and that's ALL they
want to do. And usually he's the idiot that Civil Air Patrol has to
go find at 0300. Of course he's in bed (didn't close flight plan) of
the ELT on his aircraft is squawking because he didn't do a proper
shut down.

Even in my own experience, I know that I had my extra before I should
have. I went from General to Extra in a little over 6 months.


I forget who said there's two kinds of knowledge...there's the
things you know, and the things you know where to find the answers
to...

I would propose that there be at least a year wait before upgrading to
Extra. Ya just can't gain enough operating knowledge in less time.


Yep!

Steve, K4YZ


Used to be back in the sixties. Think it was 2 or 3 years actual on the air
experience as General or higher (class A, Advanced) then you could take the
Extra test.

Dan/W4NTI


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Old July 8th 03, 02:01 AM
Mike Coslo
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message
om...

Mike Coslo wrote in message


...

This is not as far-fetched as it may seem. I tried to help out a new
Extra in a contest once. I knew he did not have any HF experience at
all, yet he wanted a bare minimum of help. After showing him where the
PTT was, and how to change bands, I started to explain the structure of
a contest QSO. He interrupted me after the first sentence with a "not to
be rude, but I'll take over now". I came back the next morning and saw
the results of his work. Six QSO's! He was woring at the rate of 1 QSO
per hour under *good* band conditions!


I know this type...Not from Amateur Radio, so much, but from
flying...They learned enough to get into the air and that's ALL they
want to do. And usually he's the idiot that Civil Air Patrol has to
go find at 0300. Of course he's in bed (didn't close flight plan) of
the ELT on his aircraft is squawking because he didn't do a proper
shut down.


Even in my own experience, I know that I had my extra before I should
have. I went from General to Extra in a little over 6 months.


I forget who said there's two kinds of knowledge...there's the
things you know, and the things you know where to find the answers
to...


I would propose that there be at least a year wait before upgrading to
Extra. Ya just can't gain enough operating knowledge in less time.


Yep!

Steve, K4YZ



Used to be back in the sixties. Think it was 2 or 3 years actual on the air
experience as General or higher (class A, Advanced) then you could take the
Extra test.



Yes to bothya'! It really isn't just the book learning.

Seriously, I learned so much in that first year that I really only now
consider myself a "real" extra, and at the bottom rungs of the ladder.

But I'm a quick learner........


- Mike KB3EIA -



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