In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

Once the official FCC changes are made, by whatever method, I wonder
how long it will take the unlicensed to become licensed...Now that
there's NO excuse remaining?

Just wondering.

Steve:

What do you mean, "no excuse remaining?" There are plenty of excuses
remaining. As long as a written theory test (if you can call a multiple-
guess test a "written" test) is required, there will be people whining and
complaining about having to prepare for it and take it in order to obtain
a license in whatever's left of the ARS. So, we'll change the debate over
to whether or not the ARS is a "technical" service and whether the testing
should be changed into something more dumbed-down than it already is.
After that, the next bone of contention will be whether or not a prospective
ham should be required to know how to spell his name correctly on the
application!

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

Once the official FCC changes are made, by whatever method, I wonder
how long it will take the unlicensed to become licensed...Now that
there's NO excuse remaining?

There's always an excuse, Steve.

Here are some predictions for ya:

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant
change
in the written exams.

Too bad. I'd like to see the exam restructured

The writtens WERE restructured back in 2000. The number of tests and the total
number of questions were reduced.

There were all sorts of suggestions in the comments submitted about how to
improve the writtens, but the FCC ignored all of them and reduced the written
testing as well as the code testing.

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant,
sustained increase in growth rate of the ARS. There may be a short term
surge, and lots of upgrades, but total numbers will not skyrocket.

Agreed.

Watch the thread "ARS License Numbers"...

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant
change
in the modes and technologies used by hams. There will not be a
technorevolution, nor big increases in experimentation or homebrewing. Just
more of the same of what has been going on.

Agreed. I'd like to hear just what sort of technorevolution some people

were expecting.

You shoulda been here a couple years ago when certain folks were telling us
what wonderful technologies we'd have it weren't for the code test. One of the
most vociferous is now Executive Director of NCI. He'd lecture us on how
primitive Morse Code and other modes hams use are, compared to what was
possible.

A year after the 2000 restructuring, he went from Tech Plus to Extra and went
on HF SSB, working DX with a manufactured transceiver. Last I heard he had over
70 countries. Surreal.


Do people who do not have the time to take the morse code test have the
time to invent new modes? Do they have time to invent digital voice
modes that take up bandwidth than ssb?

Ask 'em.

Let's see what happens in the UK. RSGB and RA have been pushing to drop
the code test for a long time. Maybe they won't be disappointed.

Just wondering.

Don't hold yer breath. The usual bureaucratic delay will slow things down
here in the USA. And remember, those who get the licenses after the change
will be
raw, inexperienced newcomers, who will need our help and guidance as they
are welcomed into the ARS.

And there you have one of the more interesting dilemmas to the ARS.

Is a brand new Extra, who has never been on HF, even accept
Elmering?

Some will, some won't. I'll do what I've always done - gladly help anybody who
asks.

Or will they insist that the conventions that have been developed over
the years are not applicable to them.

Some will, some won't. Those who won't will learn the hard way what works and
what doesn't.

This is not as far-fetched as it may seem. I tried to help out a new
Extra in a contest once. I knew he did not have any HF experience at
all, yet he wanted a bare minimum of help. After showing him where the
PTT was, and how to change bands, I started to explain the structure of
a contest QSO. He interrupted me after the first sentence with a "not to
be rude, but I'll take over now". I came back the next morning and saw
the results of his work. Six QSO's! He was woring at the rate of 1 QSO
per hour under *good* band conditions!

Been there, done that.

In fact I recall a certain FD a few years ago. Another rrap regular whom you
may know was working 20 CW, making about 40 QSOs/hr with a terrible antenna. He
was pressured into shutting down so that some folks could use 20 phone. Two
hours later, they had put maybe 4 contacts in the log. They complained that the
band was dead - so he sat down and proceeded to put a couple dozen in the log
on the "dead" band.

I recall another FD when somebody came over to the CW tent 3-4 hours into the
contest and wanted to know how I was doing. I said "just OK - only about 150 so
far". Guy cussed me out and called me a liar. So I showed him the log sheets.
bwaahaahaa

Even in my own experience, I know that I had my extra before I should
have. I went from General to Extra in a little over 6 months.

It ain't when ya get the license, it's what ya do with it.

I would propose that there be at least a year wait before upgrading to
Extra. Ya just can't gain enough operating knowledge in less time.

Not gonna happen.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , "Dan/W4NTI"
writes:

I would propose that there be at least a year wait before upgrading to
Extra. Ya just can't gain enough operating knowledge in less time.

Yep!

Steve, K4YZ

Used to be back in the sixties. Think it was 2 or 3 years actual on the air
experience as General or higher (class A, Advanced) then you could take the
Extra test.

Until 1952 when the license class was closed to new applicants, one year of
experience was required before you could try for the Class A/Advanced.
"Experience" did not include time as a Novice or Technician. When the Advanced
was reopened to new applicants in 1967, there was no experience requirment.

From its origin in 1951 until the mid 1970s, the Extra required two years'
experience. The requirement was then reduced to one year, then eliminated in
the late 1970s.

Of course there was no requirement to actually use your license during that
time.

I got my Advanced in the summer of 1968, age 14, and counted the days until I
could try for the Extra. On the first day it was legal to try, I was at the FCC
office to take the Extra exam. Passed it on the first go. No big deal, there
were Extras a lot younger back then.

73 de Jim, N2EY

From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

So, we'll change the debate over
to whether or not the ARS is a "technical" service

The ARS will not be a "technical" service with the current Ham radio culture.
Most homebrewing is for show or to boost the image of the ARS. They are too
snobby to include someone that is interested in Homebrewing. Or its some EE
that usually doesn't attend meetings.

The clubs and Hamfests focus on antennas, contesting, and CW. With the
exception of antennas, ARS is primarily an appliance operator hobby. One
example is people coming from scanner or CB to ARS. Another example is the
comparison that "without CW, its just CB". Note that CW is an operator skill.

ARS is not a technical service because Hams have "voted" by their actions to
not do these things. Furthermore, they discourage other amateurs from doing
other than what they like to do. They also strongly encourage others to learn
CW. At several antenna setups, club meetings, ham gatherings, I have
participated in, often Hams try to persuade me to learn CW.

and whether the testing
should be changed into something more dumbed-down than it already is.

After that, the next bone of contention will be whether or not a prospective
ham should be required to know how to spell his name correctly on the
application!

To you, taking away one requirement (the CW test) is dumbing down because its
one less requirement. If more people focus on the written material, ARS could
be more than an operator's hobby and more of a technical hobby. That's not
dumbing down of the hobby.

It is only required 5 wpm CW speed, yet many Hams take pride in increasing
their code speed. The easy written test is not the problem. Its lack of
interest in the technical material, and achieving skills in these areas -
that's the problem.

Yep, 1962 I got my novice. In 1964 I passed the general. In 1966 I passed
the 1st phone, 2nd telegraph, radar endorsement, and amateur extra. The
only hold up now is that the FCC has to figure out a way to package the
license in a box of Cheerios. :)

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA
ps - yes, I'd like to get my old call back, but now all you do is pay your
money and get any call from any district that is available. So why do it
anyways?



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From: "Jim Hampton"

The
only hold up now is that the FCC has to figure out a way to package the
license in a box of Cheerios. :)


Fill out the questions on the back of the box (the written test). Then, you
just need 2 UPC codes from 2 boxes. Mail 2 UPC codes with written test and you
will get your license..

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Agreed. I'd like to hear just what sort of technorevolution some people


were expecting.


You shoulda been here a couple years ago when certain folks were telling us
what wonderful technologies we'd have it weren't for the code test. One of the
most vociferous is now Executive Director of NCI. He'd lecture us on how
primitive Morse Code and other modes hams use are, compared to what was
possible.

Figures. I still wait, and probably will continue to wait.......


A year after the 2000 restructuring, he went from Tech Plus to Extra and went
on HF SSB, working DX with a manufactured transceiver. Last I heard he had over
70 countries. Surreal.


Do people who do not have the time to take the morse code test have the
time to invent new modes? Do they have time to invent digital voice
modes that take up bandwidth than ssb?


Ask 'em.

I already know the answer. I doubt they will admit to their laziness
tho! 8^)

some snippage

In fact I recall a certain FD a few years ago. Another rrap regular whom you
may know was working 20 CW, making about 40 QSOs/hr with a terrible antenna. He
was pressured into shutting down so that some folks could use 20 phone. Two
hours later, they had put maybe 4 contacts in the log. They complained that the
band was dead - so he sat down and proceeded to put a couple dozen in the log
on the "dead" band.

Yeah, I know many of the newbies and rusties complain about how the
GOTA station "isn't working" when I know it is. Lots easier to make
QSO's on thos 1KW stations.

It really is about 80 percent OP and 20 percent rig.


Som Extras are going to look mighty foolish.

I recall another FD when somebody came over to the CW tent 3-4 hours into the
contest and wanted to know how I was doing. I said "just OK - only about 150 so
far". Guy cussed me out and called me a liar. So I showed him the log sheets.
bwaahaahaa

All the testing in the world cannot produce a good operator.

Even in my own experience, I know that I had my extra before I should
have. I went from General to Extra in a little over 6 months.


It ain't when ya get the license, it's what ya do with it.

And it was a rapid, and sometimes humbling experience. Then again,
maybe that's okay.

I would propose that there be at least a year wait before upgrading to
Extra. Ya just can't gain enough operating knowledge in less time.


Not gonna happen.

Is there an emoticon for a Bronx cheer? 8^P

- Mike KB3EIA -

You are correct in one regard....."Don't hold your breath" is about the best
comment I have heard here. Existing technicians may choose to utilize their
new privileges but the dropping of morse code completely is not going to
bring up our numbers any more than where we are at right now from a month to
month basis.

You could hand out free licenses with $100 bills attached to them but if
people are not aware of that, they are not going to be giving out that many.
It's all about the public relations/promotion of the hobby.


--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!)
--. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-.
... --. .... - . .-. ...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

Once the official FCC changes are made, by whatever method, I wonder
how long it will take the unlicensed to become licensed...Now that
there's NO excuse remaining?

There's always an excuse, Steve.

Here are some predictions for ya:

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant
change
in the written exams.

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant,
sustained increase in growth rate of the ARS. There may be a short term
surge,
and lots of upgrades, but total numbers will not skyrocket.

The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant
change
in the modes and technologies used by hams. There will not be a
technorevolution, nor big increases in experimentation or homebrewing.
Just
more of the same of what has been going on.

---

Let's see what happens in the UK. RSGB and RA have been pushing to drop
the
code test for a long time. Maybe they won't be disappointed.

Just wondering.

Don't hold yer breath. The usual bureaucratic delay will slow things down
here
in the USA. And remember, those who get the licenses after the change will
be
raw, inexperienced newcomers, who will need our help and guidance as they
are
welcomed into the ARS.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in part ...

In fact I recall a certain FD a few years ago. Another rrap regular whom
you may know was working 20 CW, making about 40 QSOs/hr with a terrible
antenna. He was pressured into shutting down so that some folks could use 20
phone. Two hours later, they had put maybe 4 contacts in the log. They
complained that the band was dead - so he sat down and proceeded to put a
couple dozen in the log on the "dead" band.
__________________________________________________ ________________________

When I started working CW, one of the first things I did was get involved
with traffic nets. Slow ones at first, then the State net, then Regional.
One of the advantages of working high speed traffic nets is learning how to
copy fast under very poor conditions. Seems to pay off during Field Day. I
had the same experience this year at FD as you. Between the two of us, we
were logging an average of 75 or so contacts per hour, while the SSB boys
were doing about 10. Dead bands plus QRN, QSB and all those repeats, I
guess. :-))

Arnie -
KT4ST

"Vshah101" wrote in part ...

ARS is not a technical service because Hams have "voted" by their actions to
not do these things. Furthermore, they discourage other amateurs from doing
other than what they like to do. They also strongly encourage others to
learn CW. At several antenna setups, club meetings, ham gatherings, I have
participated in, often Hams try to persuade me to learn CW.
__________________________________________________ _______________________

And they SHOULD. I always strongly encourage Hams to learn CW. It's a
great skill to have. I didn't blink when someone encouraged me to learn
about SSB operation, Manual tuning, PSK, Antennas, and APRS. I found all of
them very interesting and it added more tools to my ARS toolbox. You make
it sound like CW is something that should be avoided at all costs. You
couldn't be more wrong. It is narrow attitudes like yours that hurt the
ARS.

Arnie -
KT4ST

"What Hath God Wrought?"