On 11 Jul 2003 02:08:29 GMT, ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)
wrote:

It is a plain fact that future hams who do not face a code tesing requirement
for licensing are going to be less capable communicators than myself and
others who did. The only thing that got me into the use of the Morse/CW
mode was the requirement to learn it. It made me a better ham in every
respect. The New Age non-code tested hams will be inferior for the lack of
this requirement.

The only reason I learned code was that it was required to upgrade
beyond Technician class. Passing the code test would have made me a
Tech Plus and earned me some phone privileges on 10m and CW on several
other bands...except that I took the General class written at the same
VE session, and passed it, walking out with General class privileges.

At that point, I could communicate using CW at 5 WPM. At the same
point, I could also communicate using phone at a significantly faster
rate than 5 WPM since I can speak a lot faster than that. I could
also communicate using PSK31 at a significantly faster rate than 5 WPM
since I can type a lot faster than that. Thus, for me the use of
another mode is more efficient for me than to use CW. I would actually
be a less capable communicator if I used CW than I am using another
mode. My facing the code testing requirement did not affect my ability
to speak or to type.

Well, everyone's estimate of their "enjoyment" of ham radio is a subjective
thing. However, in this age where we're trying to justify our hold on
literally
billions of dollars worth of commercially viable spectrum, we place a great
emphasis on our capabilities as "emergency" communicators. Unfortunately,
the least reliable modes we employ are those that depend on voice
communication -- and these modes are the first to "go South" when
atmospheric conditions and man-made interference do not operate in our
favor.

These days, the vast majority of emergency communications is done on a
local basis, primarily on 2m using FM repeaters and simplex. 70cm is
probably the next most widely used band for this purpose. Neither is
subject to the propagation difficulties often encountered on HF.

In my own estimation, the biggest problem with emergency
communications in the ARS right now isn't the people who don't know
CW, it's the people who think their 5-watt (or 2-watt, or 150
mkilliwatt) HT and its 650mAh battery pack is all they need to
function as an emergency communicator when the proverbial merde hits
the proverbial ventillateur.

Morse/CW allows us to overcome the majority of those obstacles,
but only those who know how to effectively employ this mode are qualified
to make that judgment.

Actually, it's the agencies served by our ARES and RACES and other
emergency communications groups who are best qualified to judge the
effectiveness of our contributions. The ones I've worked with so far
have expressed high praise for the efforts of our team of hams, and we
have yet to use CW during an activation.

Therefore, your argument about "enjoyment" is,
as are most NCTA arguments, self-serving at best.

Apples and oranges, perhaps. Only the most masochistic among us would
claim to actually enjoy pulling a 12- or 14-hour shift in a chilly EOC
or standing in a street in the middle of an ice storm. Emergency
communications isn't done for enjoyment. DX'ing, contesting, and
casual ragchewing are done for enjoyment, and if one enjoys using CW
for such activities, there's nothing stopping anyone from doing so.
For those who do not enjoy using CW, the same activities can also be
enjoyed using other modes.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:

The only reason I learned code was that it was required to upgrade
beyond Technician class. Passing the code test would have made me a
Tech Plus and earned me some phone privileges on 10m and CW on several
other bands...except that I took the General class written at the same
VE session, and passed it, walking out with General class privileges.

At that point, I could communicate using CW at 5 WPM. At the same
point, I could also communicate using phone at a significantly faster
rate than 5 WPM since I can speak a lot faster than that. I could
also communicate using PSK31 at a significantly faster rate than 5 WPM
since I can type a lot faster than that. Thus, for me the use of
another mode is more efficient for me than to use CW. I would actually
be a less capable communicator if I used CW than I am using another
mode. My facing the code testing requirement did not affect my ability
to speak or to type.

John:

I agree that Morse code proficiency has nothing to do with speaking or
typing -- but the ability to effectively employ the Morse/CW mode -- at
speeds greater than 5 WPM -- will keep you communicating when conditions
prevent you from communicating by voice or digital modes. You have done
nothing but provide personal, anecdotal proof that reducing code testing
requirements down to a mere 5 WPM maximum was NOT a good thing!

Well, everyone's estimate of their "enjoyment" of ham radio is a subjective
thing. However, in this age where we're trying to justify our hold on
literally
billions of dollars worth of commercially viable spectrum, we place a great
emphasis on our capabilities as "emergency" communicators. Unfortunately,
the least reliable modes we employ are those that depend on voice
communication -- and these modes are the first to "go South" when
atmospheric conditions and man-made interference do not operate in our
favor.

These days, the vast majority of emergency communications is done on a
local basis, primarily on 2m using FM repeaters and simplex. 70cm is
probably the next most widely used band for this purpose. Neither is
subject to the propagation difficulties often encountered on HF.

True -- when the "emergency" is confined to a small locality and the VHF/
UHF repeater infrastructure remains intact. However, what if there is a
widespread disaster -- such as the "Big One" striking the San Andreas fault
line in California? That will not be a "local" disaster -- it will affect the
entire country. Vast regions hundreds of miles in radius will be affected,
and the commercial communications and existing Amateur Radio
infrastructures and the power grids they depend on will be disrupted for
God only knows how long. At that point, we could be talking about areas
with populations of hundreds of thousands of people being out of
communication with the area "outside" the disaster zone. Communications
nets spanning many times the normal operational range of terresterial
VHF/UHF systems will be necessary -- and don't look now, but we're
coming to the downside of the solar cycle -- meaning poor propagation.
I guarantee you that there will be lots of opportunities for No-Code HF
Ham Heroes to help out, but when conditions dictate the use of CW, in
order to be able to communicate when voice and data modes fail due to
lack of available electrical power or poor atmospherics, that capability
will not be available because it will not have been learned. That's when
some guy like me will enter the picture, and say, "Step aside, Sonny,
and take your toy microphone with you." Then he'll plug in his key and
re-establish contact with the outside world. Of course, you will never
be convinced that that could happen -- so you'll just have to hope it doesn't.
In the meantime, I'll be ready!

In my own estimation, the biggest problem with emergency
communications in the ARS right now isn't the people who don't know
CW, it's the people who think their 5-watt (or 2-watt, or 150
mkilliwatt) HT and its 650mAh battery pack is all they need to
function as an emergency communicator when the proverbial merde hits
the proverbial ventillateur.

Well, unfortunately, there are lots of new Ham Heroes who believe
precisely that, and they belive that their possession of the HT and
650 mAh battery pack makes them a "real" ham radio operator!

Morse/CW allows us to overcome the majority of those obstacles,
but only those who know how to effectively employ this mode are qualified
to make that judgment.

Actually, it's the agencies served by our ARES and RACES and other
emergency communications groups who are best qualified to judge the
effectiveness of our contributions. The ones I've worked with so far
have expressed high praise for the efforts of our team of hams, and we
have yet to use CW during an activation.

That is the usual case. However, I did impress the begeebers out of one
certain county EOC Director by using CW during a practice exercise.
Then he asked me, "Why can all the other hams do that? I can see where
Morse code could be very effective. You were copying that other guy (who
was in Indiana -- I was in Delaware) perfectly even though I could hardly
hear him!"

Therefore, your argument about "enjoyment" is,
as are most NCTA arguments, self-serving at best.

Apples and oranges, perhaps. Only the most masochistic among us would
claim to actually enjoy pulling a 12- or 14-hour shift in a chilly EOC
or standing in a street in the middle of an ice storm. Emergency
communications isn't done for enjoyment. DX'ing, contesting, and
casual ragchewing are done for enjoyment, and if one enjoys using CW
for such activities, there's nothing stopping anyone from doing so.
For those who do not enjoy using CW, the same activities can also be
enjoyed using other modes.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

I don't think anyone's going to confuse emergency communications with
anything enjoyable. However, in order to have total communications
capability, leaving out Morse/CW capability just doesn't make sense to me.
We're going the wrong way on that, and the only reason for it is because
people these days are just too damn LAZY to learn a useful communications
skill. End of story.

73 de Larry, K3LT

Larry Roll K3LT wrote:



True -- when the "emergency" is confined to a small locality and the VHF/
UHF repeater infrastructure remains intact. However, what if there is a
widespread disaster -- such as the "Big One" striking the San Andreas fault
line in California? That will not be a "local" disaster -- it will affect the
entire country. Vast regions hundreds of miles in radius will be affected,
and the commercial communications and existing Amateur Radio
infrastructures and the power grids they depend on will be disrupted for
God only knows how long. At that point, we could be talking about areas
with populations of hundreds of thousands of people being out of
communication with the area "outside" the disaster zone. Communications
nets spanning many times the normal operational range of terresterial
VHF/UHF systems will be necessary -- and don't look now, but we're
coming to the downside of the solar cycle -- meaning poor propagation.
I guarantee you that there will be lots of opportunities for No-Code HF
Ham Heroes to help out, but when conditions dictate the use of CW, in
order to be able to communicate when voice and data modes fail due to
lack of available electrical power or poor atmospherics, that capability
will not be available because it will not have been learned. That's when
some guy like me will enter the picture, and say, "Step aside, Sonny,
and take your toy microphone with you." Then he'll plug in his key and
re-establish contact with the outside world. Of course, you will never
be convinced that that could happen -- so you'll just have to hope it doesn't.
In the meantime, I'll be ready!

John, you have to realize that Larry and his huge ego are just
waiting for the above scenario to happen so he can "save the
world" with his CW skills. He is in complete denial that when this
big disaster happens, he and his CW skills will mean nothing. I
can just see him waving his code key shouting "I can save the day
with my CW" at the officials who will laugh their ass off at him.
Read his "step aside Sonny" above and the picture of Larry and his
ego becomes very clear.
I have been a ham for over forty years, have participated in many
disaster situations, and I have never seen conditions where CW
was the only means of communication that would get through, even
at the bottom of the solar cycles. Guys like Larry live in a "I am
superior to you because of my CW skills" dream world.

"JJ" wrote in part ...

John, you have to realize that Larry and his huge ego are just waiting for
the above scenario to happen so he can "save the world" with his CW skills.
He is in complete denial that when this big disaster happens, he and his CW
skills will mean nothing. I can just see him waving his code key shouting "I
can save the day with my CW" at the officials who will laugh their ass off
at him.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

This EMA Director won't. I have already incorporated CW in my Emergency
Management Plans. It's a great tool to have (in conjunction with the other
available communications modes). I actually feel sorry for those in EMA,
and Amateur Radio, that discount it. We put it to great use during
Hurricane Floyd in 1999, and I'm sure we'll use it again in the future.
Your 40 years as a Ham apparently haven't taught you very much. It's always
better to leave Emergency Management Planning to the professionals. You
just proved it.

Arnie -
KT4ST

Arnie Macy wrote:


This EMA Director won't. I have already incorporated CW in my Emergency
Management Plans. It's a great tool to have (in conjunction with the other
available communications modes). I actually feel sorry for those in EMA,
and Amateur Radio, that discount it. We put it to great use during
Hurricane Floyd in 1999, and I'm sure we'll use it again in the future.

And your response comes because you are a ham and support CW and
you just can't stand the thought that CW may not save the world
someday. Go talk to your local emergency officials about how you
can save the world because you can use CW and see how much
importance they put on you views. So you put it to use in 1999
during Hurricane Floyd. Why? Was it the only means of
communications that could get through? I seriously doubt it. I am
not arguing the fact you used CW, just don't tout it as the end
all to communications during the Hurricane.

Your 40 years as a Ham apparently haven't taught you very much. It's always
better to leave Emergency Management Planning to the professionals. You
just proved it.

It has taught me that I have never had to use CW as the only means
of communication during any emergency, and that includes
disastrous tornados, hurricanes, floods, and earthquakes. It has
taught me that CW is an antiquated mode and I am not silly enough
to think it will be some ham nut like Dick, Larry or you that will
save the world from disaster with your little code key. I am not
anti CW, just anti those who claim that it will be the savior of
the world and anyone who doesn't use code isn't as good a ham as
Larry, Dick, and others (you too I guess). I have known many hams
that never operated CW after upgrading from Novice, and they would
put Larry and Dick to shame as far as being "real" hams.
Look into the future and you see Larry's skeleton sitting at his
rig, hand on the code key still waiting to say the world with is
CW skills. It isn't going to happen.

"JJ" wrote ...

And your response comes because you are a ham and support CW and you just
can't stand the thought that CW may not save the world someday. Go talk to
your local emergency officials about how you can save the world because you
can use CW and see how much importance they put on you views. So you put it
to use in 1999 during Hurricane Floyd. Why? Was it the only means of
communications that could get through? I seriously doubt it. I am not
arguing the fact you used CW, just don't tout it as the end all to
communications during the Hurricane. [40 years as a Ham] It has taught me
that I have never had to use CW as the only means of communication during
any emergency, and that includes disastrous tornados, hurricanes, floods,
and earthquakes. It has taught me that CW is an antiquated mode and I am not
silly enough to think it will be some ham nut like Dick, Larry or you that
will save the world from disaster with your little code key. I am not anti
CW, just anti those who claim that it will be the savior of the world and
anyone who doesn't use code isn't as good a ham as Larry, Dick, and others
(you too I guess). I have kown many hams that never operated CW after
upgrading from Novice, and they would put Larry and Dick to shame as far as
being "real" hams. Look into the future and you see Larry's skeleton
sitting at his rig, hand on the code key still waiting to say the world with
is CW skills. It isn't going to happen.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

If you had bothered to actually read my reply, you would have known that I
said it was used in conjunction with other modes, not exclusively. And yes,
we used it because we were having a very hard time getting through on SSB
(our primary mode), and phone lines were jammed or down. As to your
assertion that "local" EMAs think CW is not important -- As a Federal EMA, I
can tell you that you are dead wrong about that. When I talk to them, they
are thrilled to have the additional communication tool and are impressed
that we (ARS) have operators capable of it. Again, if you would have taken
the time to read my reply, and after 40 years as a Ham, you would have
already known this.

Arnie -

BTW, Are you and Leland related? You both use the anomalous term "code key"

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:48:21 -0600, JJ
wrote:

John, you have to realize that Larry and his huge ego are just
waiting for the above scenario to happen so he can "save the
world" with his CW skills. He is in complete denial that when this
big disaster happens, he and his CW skills will mean nothing.

Actually, Larry could be quite correct. Nonetheless, code testing as a
licensing requirement appears on the verge of going the way of the
auk, the Edsel, and point-to-point wiring in commercial radio gear.
One of the other regulars in this NG likes to comment that the plug is
about to be pulled on the government life support system, or words to
that effect, which is that person's way of saying that those who have
a genuine interest in the use of the mode had better start thinking
about finding another way to get people interested in learning the
code if they want the use of Morse to continue to be a part of the
hobby. Telling people they are lazy if they've chosen not to learn it
is not going to do the trick.

I can just see him waving his code key shouting "I can save the day
with my CW" at the officials who will laugh their ass off at him.

One could be waving state-of-the-art voice communications gear and get
the same reaction. That's why it's important for ham radio emergency
communications groups to establish a good relationship with the
emergency management officials in the areas they serve *before*
disaster strikes. Once the proverbial merde hits the proverbial
ventillateur, the folks running the served agencies will be too busy
to listen to explanations. I'm sure most of us know how it goes, or
can at least imagine - when you are up to your keister in alligators,
it's easy to forget that the initial objective was to drain the swamp.

I have been a ham for over forty years, have participated in many
disaster situations, and I have never seen conditions where CW
was the only means of communication that would get through, even
at the bottom of the solar cycles. Guys like Larry live in a "I am
superior to you because of my CW skills" dream world.

Despite that, I've no doubt that it's possible for such conditions to
exist. The point that I think Larry and numerous others in the hobby
seem to be missing is that this is a diversified hobby with a lot of
different and equally interesting facets, of which CW is just one. I'm
not about to ridicule anyone because they enjoy communicating with CW.
However, I also don't think it's right to ridicule people who do not.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:

Despite that, I've no doubt that it's possible for such conditions to
exist. The point that I think Larry and numerous others in the hobby
seem to be missing is that this is a diversified hobby with a lot of
different and equally interesting facets, of which CW is just one. I'm
not about to ridicule anyone because they enjoy communicating with CW.
However, I also don't think it's right to ridicule people who do not.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

John:

The only no-coders I bother to "ridicule" are those who offer the typically
inane arguments that code testing is somehow detrimental to the future
of the ARS -- usually by discouraging the involvement of computer-
literate, technically-involved young people. The truth about these
people is that they just want to get on HF phone and yak away -- and for
the most part, haven't a clue as to what's happening inside their off-the-
shelf ham radio appliance.

73 de Larry, K3LT

On 13 Jul 2003 05:53:12 GMT, ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)
wrote:

The only no-coders I bother to "ridicule" are those who offer the typically
inane arguments that code testing is somehow detrimental to the future
of the ARS -- usually by discouraging the involvement of computer-
literate, technically-involved young people. The truth about these
people is that they just want to get on HF phone and yak away -- and for
the most part, haven't a clue as to what's happening inside their off-the-
shelf ham radio appliance.

I'm sure that's true for some. I'm also sure it's not true for all.
The average computer-literate, technically involved people tend to be
able to, for example, assemble a computer from its basic elements
(case, power supply, motherboard and perhaps some daughterboards),
connect the peripherals, install an OS and other software without a
dozen calls to a tech support hotline, and end up with a viable
working machine.

Folks who can do this are technically involved in comparison to the
folks who don't even know which port the monitor plugs into. They
aren't technically involved in comparison to the guy who designed the
motherboard in the first place. However, even in the industry, very
few people do component level repairs on motherboards and
daughterboards any more. What of it? Who do you know that's designed
and built a multi-band HF rig lately? Some have, of course...most of
them work for Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu, Alinco, etc.

Of those that are able to do component level repairs on computer
equipment, they probably have much of the knowledge needed to pass our
written exams, except they lack the specialized knowledge of RF.
Certainly, though, it would seem they have the capacity to learn it -
but when the first thing we do is hit them with something over a
hundred years old and tell them this is our lowest common denominator,
I have no doubt that it causes a lot of people to think, "@#$&%^*
that!" and find another hobby...perhaps they already have one.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ
Had a life, got a modem...

On 13 Jul 2003 05:53:12 GMT, ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)
wrote:

The only no-coders I bother to "ridicule" are those who offer the typically
inane arguments that code testing is somehow detrimental to the future
of the ARS -- usually by discouraging the involvement of computer-
literate, technically-involved young people. The truth about these
people is that they just want to get on HF phone and yak away -- and for
the most part, haven't a clue as to what's happening inside their off-the-
shelf ham radio appliance.

I'm sure that's true for some. I'm also sure it's not true for all.
The average computer-literate, technically involved people tend to be
able to, for example, assemble a computer from its basic elements
(case, power supply, motherboard and perhaps some daughterboards),
connect the peripherals, install an OS and other software without a
dozen calls to a tech support hotline, and end up with a viable
working machine.

Folks who can do this are technically involved in comparison to the
folks who don't even know which port the monitor plugs into. They
aren't technically involved in comparison to the guy who designed the
motherboard in the first place. However, even in the industry, very
few people do component level repairs on motherboards and
daughterboards any more. What of it? Who do you know that's designed
and built a multi-band HF rig lately? Some have, of course...most of
them work for Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu, Alinco, etc.

Of those that are able to do component level repairs on computer
equipment, they probably have much of the knowledge needed to pass our
written exams, except they lack the specialized knowledge of RF.
Certainly, though, it would seem they have the capacity to learn it -
but when the first thing we do is hit them with something over a
hundred years old and tell them this is our lowest common denominator,
I have no doubt that it causes a lot of people to think, "@#$&%^*
that!" and find another hobby...perhaps they already have one.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ
Had a life, got a modem...