Wasting free time is pretty much what this newsgroup is all about, Steve.
However, don't think everyone in this newsgroup spends all their free time
here - most of us get our hands dirty with other things.


Like sweating on your microphone... (or paddle)

Im sure your right, CB or 11 Meters is considered HF.

If ten meters was not open during the day for the past couple
days, you probably weren't checking it.

11 meters was kicking!. I didn't partake in any skip, though.

"Scott Unit 69" wrote in message
...
Im sure your right, CB or 11 Meters is considered HF.

From URL:
http://www.testeq.com/charts/freqclas.lasso



30 - 300 Hz 2 Extremely Low Frequencies ELF
300 - 3000 Hz 3 Voice (Audio) Frequencies VF
3 - 30 KHz 4 Very Low Frequencies VLF
30 - 300 KHz 5 Low Frequencies LF
300 - 3000 KHz 6 Medium Frequencies MF
3 - 30 MHz 7 High Frequencies HF
30 - 300 MHz 8 Very High Frequencies VHF
300 - 3000 MHz 9 Ultrahigh Frequencies UHF
3 - 30 GHz 10 Super-High Frequencies SHF
30 - 300 GHz 11 Extremely High Frequencies EHF
300 GHz - 3 THz 12 Sub Millimeter- -

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...
Brian Kelly wrote:


I'll cheerfully give up thumping for code tests when the writtens get
much stiffer than they are now.

Hey, I expected that the code test would someday go away
over 20 years ago-

Then you held on to it at least 20 years longer than necessary.

before the volunteer exam system
was started and the writtens moved from being some evidence of learning to
being no more than evidence of passing through a fomality.

Those darned "fomalities." Maybe they just wusn't that "impotent."

As the situation stands now everywhere
I look the service is being dumbed down.

There is no other realistic way to regard it. When the code test is gone, ham radio is tossed
onto the steepest part of the slippery slope. Becoming a ham
will be so little beyond getting on CB that what we'll have is all the Freebanders who aren't
the least concerned about regulations dumping into
the ham bands. Many recent postings here on rrap show this clearly enough.

They got the mule's goat, didn't they?

How many examples of how
that philosophy has backfired badly in other spheres do you have to
see before you get the drift? Welfare? Public education? Where and how
do we draw the line in ham radio?

but it was the only thing I could come up with at this
moment.

Uh-huh. There's a reason for that.

However, I think even those with code ability would agree that at
least some have walked away from ham radio because of the code testing
requirement.

Not "some", uncountable hordes. I've been listening to that excuse for
more decades than I'd like to admit. I never shed a tear for any of
'em. It's a blatent copout and a strong indicator of what ham radio
would have gotten from them.

I'm convinced there are some small number of strong technical types out there who have a
problem with learning morse code that should have had some means of being licensed without
high speed code in years past.

So what was your solution?

With the 5wpm max code speed, that argument evaporated. But it sure didn't make a dent in
the codeless whiners arguement, did it? It's dump code- and dump on code- all the way, no
holding back, gimme, gimme, gimme. No end to it.

Sure there is. When people learn the code because it is of value to them.

But it's the end of ham radio, as the
calendar works it's way forward, at least the end of any resemblence of ham radio as a useful
entity. If we wanted that sort of crap we could have all gone on up to the region above 27 mhz
to find it.

Like you're not already there.

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(WA8ULX) wrote in message
...
I was on HF and communicating
before any of the regulars in here and I didn't have to use any
morse code at all.

Im sure your right, CB or 11 Meters is considered HF.

He's so fulla **** the whites of his eyes gotta be brown.

Incorrect. They are blue.

That has to be an interesting look you've got there, Leonard. What
color are the pupils?

Why do you ask about my former class? Those pupils were
representative of nearly all races.

I for one
was on the HF ham bands in 1951 *with CW* from W3CGS before I got my
Novice ticket.

Then you were BOOTLEGGING, old man. ILLEGAL. Tsk, tsk.

I think we may see another gap in your knowledge looming.

All indications are that Kellie was BOOTLEGGING despite claims
(which will surface) that there was a "control operator" there. No
way to ascertain if that control operator was there...except by
his word.

Since you cannot accept anyone's word (if their opinion on a subject
is different than yours), you cannot corroborate anything Kellie said
or did 52 years ago. You are overextending your self-professed task
of being the newsgroup kop in here.

The only "HF experience" he had in that timeframe was
as a grunt U.S. Army apprentice RTTY equipment mechanic & babysitter
1952-53.

Incorrect AGAIN!

Microwave Radio Relay Operation and Maintenance Supervisor, (then)
MOS 281.6. Temporarily doing Fixed Station Transmitters operation
and maintenance (supervisor) 1953 to 1956 at US Army radio station
ADA in Tokyo, Japan. 43 transmitters on HF ranging from 1 KW
(BC-339) to 40 KW (AN/FRC-22)...working to Seoul, Pusan,
Okinawa, Manila, Saigon, Anchorage, Seattle, Hawaii, San Francisco
on a 24/7 schedule. Not a single circuit used any morse code.

I know you just forgot to mention, "Fifty years ago..."

In 1952 I was in Basic Training and at the Signal School in Fort
Monmouth, NJ.

...and a year later you were an expert.

INCORRECT. I've never stated I was "expert" in HF communications.

A half century ago the US Army did NOT use morse code for long-
haul HF communications. I am a direct witness to that. So is
N2JTV. THAT was my point which you will never ever concede due
to your peculiar need to be some sort of radio guru and traffic kop.

After three years at Army station ADA and its 43 HF transmitters,
doing both operations and maintenance, I can claim some
experience in HF radio long ago.

"It ain't braggin' if ya done it." I did it.

LHA

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(WA8ULX) wrote in message
...
I was on HF and communicating
before any of the regulars in here and I didn't have to use any
morse code at all.

Im sure your right, CB or 11 Meters is considered HF.

He's so fulla **** the whites of his eyes gotta be brown.

Incorrect. They are blue.

That has to be an interesting look you've got there, Leonard. What
color are the pupils?

He's been swallowing his blue Listerine. Prolly by the gallon. He
hasn't read the label yet.

I don't do what you do, Kellie.


I for one
was on the HF ham bands in 1951 *with CW* from W3CGS before I got my
Novice ticket.

Then you were BOOTLEGGING, old man. ILLEGAL. Tsk, tsk.

I think we may see another gap in your knowledge looming.

Dontcha love it? The average nocoode can see it a mile away. But not
our Putz, yes sir, he knows *everything*.

In 1951 you were all of 14 years old (after 5 March). I'm sure you
didn't have the maturity of an adult...certainly not from your tale of
later leaving your "hormonal" date on her front porch to go off and
play with your radio now that you finally got a REAL license.

The only "HF experience" he had in that timeframe was
as a grunt U.S. Army apprentice RTTY equipment mechanic & babysitter
1952-53.

Incorrect AGAIN!

Microwave Radio Relay Operation and Maintenance Supervisor, (then)
MOS 281.6. Temporarily doing Fixed Station Transmitters operation
and maintenance (supervisor) 1953 to 1956 at US Army radio station
ADA in Tokyo, Japan. 43 transmitters on HF ranging from 1 KW
(BC-339) to 40 KW (AN/FRC-22)...working to Seoul, Pusan,
Okinawa, Manila, Saigon, Anchorage, Seattle, Hawaii, San Francisco
on a 24/7 schedule. Not a single circuit used any morse code.

I know you just forgot to mention, "Fifty years ago..."

In 1952 I was in Basic Training and at the Signal School in Fort
Monmouth, NJ.

...and a year later you were an expert.

Zzzzzzz . . .

Poor old man...put you to sleep again, did we? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

You are getting on in years, now at 66.

You've never worked REAL HF communications, old man. You pretend
you have playing with your HF radio in an AMATEUR band.

Now go take a rest and when you wake up, do some number exercises.
Carefully go through the one that says "26 does NOT equal 1."
Not in patents, not in anything.

With regards,
LHA

In article , "Dick Carroll;"
writes:

Brian Kelly wrote:

(Len Over 21) wrote

I for one
was on the HF ham bands in 1951 *with CW* from W3CGS before I got my
Novice ticket.

Then you were BOOTLEGGING, old man. ILLEGAL. Tsk, tsk.

Of course Putzie would have to have some real information on ham radio to
know how that works, wouldn't he?

US amateur radio is one of the most publicized of electronics-related
hobbies...almost as much as radio-controlled models (there are about
170 thousand members of the Academy of Model Aeronautics and
there are about 170 thousand members of ARRL).

If you ever scan the HAM RADIO Magazine CD ($150 for a 3-disk set
of all 22 years of publication), you can see my articles in there. If the
CDs also include the masthead page you will also find me there for
two years.

And the liklihood that *HE* has done a large bit of bootlegging is more
than obvious given his longtime
'interest' in ham radio and the fact that he has never held a license, no?

I've never done any bootlegging in any radio service, old man. I've held
a commercial license since 1956 and had three years of REAL radio
communications for three years prior to that. You were not able to do
that before age 25. Probably too lazy on your part, ey?

You can't do anything more than throw **** (excuse me, "dung" or
"feces") at others in here...another fine example of the prime of
US amateur radio...and a former VE.

LHA

"Brian Kelly" wrote:

(snip) I'll cheerfully give up thumping for
code tests when the writtens get much stiffer
than they are now. As the situation stands
now everywhere I look the service is being
dumbed down.


In case you haven't noticed, the entire country is being "dumbed" down. So
what are you going to do about it - continue to excluded more and more
people from Ham Radio as you wait for someone to do something about it?

I don't like what is going on in this country either. But I don't see how
we can sit here and insist Ham Radio is only for "smart" people as we
exclude more and more in a growing country while our own numbers barely
remain stable. Especially when I see darn few 'rocket scientists' in our
existing numbers - in any license class.

In my opinion, the existing license exams serve their purpose well.
Therefore, I see no reason to demand that future prospective Hams know more
than new Hams today, twenty years ago, or fifty years ago.

Of course, you're perfectly free to continue "thumping for code tests" as
much as you want. The same with the "stiffer" written tests. However, since
code tests serve no purpose other than to exclude today and stiffer written
tests would do the same, you certainly won't get any support from me.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

Dwight Stewart wrote in message ...
"Brian Kelly" wrote:

(snip) I'll cheerfully give up thumping for
code tests when the writtens get much stiffer
than they are now. As the situation stands
now everywhere I look the service is being
dumbed down.


In case you haven't noticed, the entire country is being "dumbed" down.

I disagree! There are lots of things that are not being "dumbed down".
For example, I don't see TAC making the marathon one inch shorter.

So
what are you going to do about it - continue to excluded more and more
people from Ham Radio as you wait for someone to do something about it?

Who is being excluded? The requirements are what the FCC says they
are. Meet those requirements and the license is granted.

I don't like what is going on in this country either. But I don't see how
we can sit here and insist Ham Radio is only for "smart" people as we
exclude more and more in a growing country while our own numbers barely
remain stable.

You might want to check those numbers.

Especially when I see darn few 'rocket scientists' in our
existing numbers - in any license class.

Note that reducing the license requirements has NOT brought on
significantly more growth nor attracted the "rocket scientists".
Compare the growth of US ham radio from 1980 to 1990 (no medical
waivers, all hams code tested, Techs had same written as General until
'87) with the growth from 1990 to 2000. Sure there were short term
surges but not long term.

Since 2000 the total growth has been maybe 12,000 even though both
written and code testing were reduced.

Or look at what has happened in Japan since 1995...

In my opinion, the existing license exams serve their purpose well.

All depends what that purpose is. Looking at the FCC enforcement logs,
it seems that they don't ensure some hams know enough about how to
behave on the air.

Therefore, I see no reason to demand that future prospective Hams know more
than new Hams today, twenty years ago, or fifty years ago.

The problem is that as the technology "advances", the knowledge seems
to drop. Read rec.radio.amateur.antenna for a while and see how long
it takes before somebody starts yet another round on the T2FD....

Of course, you're perfectly free to continue "thumping for code tests" as
much as you want. The same with the "stiffer" written tests. However, since
code tests serve no purpose other than to exclude today and stiffer written
tests would do the same, you certainly won't get any support from me.

The purpose of tests is not to exclude but to guarantee a certain
minimum level of knowledge. What that knowledge should be is purely a
matter of opinion.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , "Dick Carroll;"
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Dick Carroll;"

writes:

Brian Kelly wrote:

(Len Over 21) wrote

I for one
was on the HF ham bands in 1951 *with CW* from W3CGS before I got my
Novice ticket.

Then you were BOOTLEGGING, old man. ILLEGAL. Tsk, tsk.

Of course Putzie would have to have some real information on ham radio to
know how that works, wouldn't he?

US amateur radio is one of the most publicized of electronics-related
hobbies..

So you've read about ham radio and now you're an expert on it, you got it
all mastered. Yep, that's about your speed, all right. Again and as usual,
no surprises here.

I've never claimed to be an "expert" on amateur radio or any part
of radio. I've enjoyed a reasonably well-paying career in radio-
electronics engineering, something influenced by doing three
years of large-scale military communications before 1956.

So how was it you're still so uninformed that you never heard of an
unlicensed
(or underlicensed) operator working a ham radio station under the supervision
of a control operator who has the appropriate license? Hmmmm?
So your reading didn't really teach you all that much about ham radio?
Whatta surprise!

Kellie was describing what he did 52 years ago at age 14,
BEFORE HE WAS LICENSED.

Kellie previously claimed "26 patents" as a mighty inventor and a
search of patent records showed only ONE.

Kellie previously stated a number of old radio "facts" which were
proven false by others in here. [see "28 V jeeps" as one]

Kellie gets his "Irish" up every now and then and does a great deal
of BS scribbling.

Now YOU PROVE - beyond a shadow of a doubt - that Kellie was
telling the ABSOLUTE TRUTH back then.


If you ever scan the HAM RADIO Magazine CD ($150 for a 3-disk set
of all 22 years of publication), you can see my articles in there.

Don't bother with the CD nonsense, I was a charter 1968 subscriber, and I
still
have all the magazines save a few that were loaned out and didn't make it
home.
It sure is funny that I never noticed your byline, nor even any mention of
you
or your name in any of them.

I can't help your obvious reading DISABILITY, old man. My bylines are
still there and my mailing address is still the same. You WILL find my
name on HR's masthead, too.

There's a website with a complete listing of HAM RADIO Magazine
articles...taken from HR's annual listings, probably. I don't have the
bookmark but you can find it through a search.

Of course I could get them out and do a manual
search just to see how much of a liar you really are, but naw, you're a
phoney
from the get-go and that'd be a waste of my time.

I wouldn't want your fantasy shattered. Keep believing your own lies.
You will find peace, happiness, and serentity in Nirvana of fantasy.

Whatever (if anything)
you may have contributed was too inconsequential to be of note.

How would you know? :-)

You never understood Shannon's Law according to your exchanges
with Cecil Moore in here.

It took you a year to understand how to operate an outboard DSP
audio filter by your own public statements...and then you got rid of
it.

I doubt you have bothered to understand basic principles of radio and
electronics beyond Ohm's Law!

Hey, That's the way things work in the publishing world.

Again HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

Have YOU ever sold any work to a publisher?

I've sold work to five publishers of electronics interest, all of it without
once meeting the editors face to face. The work sold itself.

It was a FUN thing to do as a sideline, never intended to be of
"heavyweight" calibre.

The heavyweights are
well remembered while the featherweights just float away, off into well
deserved oblivion.....

DICK, you've been forgotten before you were known...


I've never done any bootlegging in any radio service, old man.

So you now say, but you've said numerous things here that have shown
to be inaccurate at best, downright lies at worst. Maybe your NCI buddies
will believe you.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...another RAGE sufferer.

Feel free to spend weeks in the FCC Reading room, looking for all
those "bootlegging violations." You won't find any. I've never
bootlegged in radio or anything else under the ATF. :-)

I once had two pair of boots. Wore them on my feet, not the legs.


I've held
a commercial license since 1956 and had three years of REAL radio
communications for three years prior to that.

A tisket, a tasket, you lost your yellow basket! So you babysat the fuse
panel
at some obscure transmitter site outside Hiroshima or some such. How
impressive!
Maybe it was the leftovers from Fat Boy that got to you.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. YOUR problem might be radiation effects from your own
RF...or too much monotonic beeping.

Army radio station ADA was hardly "obscure." It was in and near Tokyo
in central Honshu, rather farther up north from Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

Radiating ~150 KW RF (old site) to ~250 KW RF (new site), all on HF,
it was most certainly "noticed" by anyone within several miles. :-)

43 transmitters with RF output ranging from 1 to 40 KW takes up
about 200 feet of interior space if arranged in two lines. The antenna
field required a 1 x 2 mile former airfield to hold them all.

I realize that isn't near as impressive as a Yaecomwood ham shack
in Missouri. :-)


You were not able to do
that before age 25. Probably too lazy on your part, ey?

The lazy occured on your shift when you forgot to learn how to count.
I took my discharge from the Army at age 23 after five years service, and had
the
First phone the last three years of that time. Maybe your mailorder
pschyo'ed bride will loan you a digital calculator?

You got a "discharge" after 5 years? Interesting. Weren't the terms
of service EIGHT years back then, old timer?

It's not nice to insult my wife...who is NOT "mailorder" and NOT under
any psychosis, nor did she ever get her degrees from any
"correspondence school."


Lessee, just what was it *you're* good at now, besides slinging dung
at licensed hams?

I'm not involved in any dung, DICK.

Your federal merit badge is NOT an automatic exemption to allow
yourself being an asshole.


Babysitting circuitbreakers at a transmitter site
in the backwoods on some Oriental island 50 years ago?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. If you are so emotionally braindead that you think
operation and maintenance of 43 HF transmitters, 16 VHF-UHF
radio relay sets, and 9 24-channel microwave radio relay sets is
just "babysitting circuitbreakers" then your own ham shack can
be described as a crystal set good for listening to AM BC from as
far away as 20 miles. :-)

Claiming authorship/editor**** of a ham radio magazine many years ago, altho
you
never were licensed, when no one WITH a ham radio license ever heard of you?

N2JTV not only "heard of me," he served with me in the same time,
same job, on another team (we had four). Gene and I have since
talked long distance and exchanged mail. He lives in Long Island, NY,
but his radio activity is mostly with radio-controlled model aircraft.

As to "claims," it ain't braggin if ya done it. I did it.


I dunno, Len, I terminated my career nearly ten years ago with an attractive
retirement. Since then I've done whatever I felt like doing, in radio and
outside
it. I don't need some 50 year old crutch to prop me up, again within ham radio
or
outside it. Clearly your needs hang out there on your sleeve for all to see.
Whatta shame.

Actually 55-year-old statement of fact. The US Army and US Air Force
GAVE UP on morse code modes for HF primary communications way
back in 1948. I was lucky to be assigned to work in one such station
five years later.

And once again-- I **KNOW** I've done more real radio work, work on
heavy hardware -radio transmitting- iron than you ever dreamed of, and
I don't mean just in ham radio, either, though I've done my share of that,
too.

OF COURSE YOU DID. You KNOW things that other folks DON'T.

Wow! Heavyweight FANTASY material, old timer.

Yes, we all KNOW that Missouri is a Mecca of "heavy hardware
radio transmitting iron." Yup, you've told us. :-) :-) :-)

Live with it.

You live with your FANTASY, I'll live with my REALITY.

OBTW, I was in your backyard again last week. I visited Yaesu USA Center at
the
Vertex Standard building in Cypress, and we toured around the
region a bit just looking things over.
Can't say I envy you living there.The place leaves a bad taste in one's
mouth.
Literally. You don't know what clean air is.

Cypress is NOT even close to being in "my backyard." :-)

California became the most populated state in the USA many years
ago. Many, many, many folks moved here because THEY liked it.

Tsk, tsk, why isn't Yaesu USA located in Missouri? :-)

LHA