"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...
If/when the FCC totally eliminates code testing it will have made the
second biggest mistake of its tenure of regulating amateur radio. The first
was
the introduction of a Citizens Band on frequencies where
propagation causes RF to travel long distances.

Anyone who believes otherwise will, in time, learn the truth.

Dick

Hey Dick........

Were you perchance a Ham-Op in the 80's and early 90's
when the infamous "14.313 Booer Wars" between
KV4FZ's "anti-phone patch" factions and the opposing
Maritime Mobile Net's faction were in full swing..?

It was QUITE a time!

Just about any week night and all weekend long you could
tune to either 14.300 or 14.313 and hear any variety of
catcalls, music, snide comments, foul language, noisemakers,
the infamous "dirty black box" and anything else in-between.
(the way it worked was if the MM Net was on .313 then the
nuts were on .300 and visa-versa) This went on for close
to 12 Years that I was aware of. It became known as the
Ham Radio Comedy Channel and before it ended it drew in
just about every kook from 75 Meters.

Guess what Dick...? It turned out that 90% of the WORST
on the air offenders and un-ID'ed stations turned out to be
Hams with Advanced and Extra Class Licensees, most of
of which had held that ticket for 10 or more years duration
and more importantly, at that time one needed to pass a 13 and 20
WPM code test respectively to obtain in the first place!
(...unless of course, you bribed the VEC for your code-credit
which was occuring in parts of the Southeastern USA at the time)

So Dick, please remember that keeping Code WILL NOT
keep the fruitcakes out of the hobby, nor will it bring more stations
into the same. The fruitcakes are already here, and for the most
part, the general public does not know ham radio from a wris****ch
nor would they as the "radio craze" of the late-70's CB Era
ended a VERY long time ago.

Besides, if they (the public) want "radio communications" they are
going to go to WalMart and purchase a pair of blister-packed FRS
Radios for $39.95 from off the pegboard in Asile #7. (...and if you
went to WalMart back in April or May, you could have snagged
a pair of full-channel Motorola FRS Radios for $26.68 as I did
when they were on sale)

I've been in ham radio since the late 60's and
supported the ending of code
in the 80's when it would have done some good.
Forget it doing ANY good now of course as
today's youth are more interested in the Internet
than in ham radio. If they want "radio" there's FRS.
Buy em, put in 3 type AA Cells and your talkin with FRS.

Sorry but that's the truth.

Still, it's ****Un-be-freaking-lievable**** that the
same ages-old debate of if to keep stupid
damm old code or not is still going on.
Then again, ham radio has been in an arrested state
of development for Years.

Looks like ole Wayne Green was right ALL ALONG.

..... .. : ) : ) : )

"Chic N Pox" wrote:
So Dick, please remember that keeping Code WILL NOT
keep the fruitcakes out of the hobby, nor will it bring more stations
into the same. The fruitcakes are already here, ...

The irony of trying to tell Dick that, is just too good.

He *is* proof; but all the other evidence you cited was
interesting... :-)

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , "Chic N Pox"
writes:

Were you perchance a Ham-Op in the 80's and early 90's
when the infamous "14.313 Booer Wars" between
KV4FZ's "anti-phone patch" factions and the opposing
Maritime Mobile Net's faction were in full swing..?

It was QUITE a time!

Just about any week night and all weekend long you could
tune to either 14.300 or 14.313 and hear any variety of
catcalls, music, snide comments, foul language, noisemakers,
the infamous "dirty black box" and anything else in-between.
(the way it worked was if the MM Net was on .313 then the
nuts were on .300 and visa-versa) This went on for close
to 12 Years that I was aware of. It became known as the
Ham Radio Comedy Channel and before it ended it drew in
just about every kook from 75 Meters.

Yup = a real black eye for amateur radio.

Guess what Dick...? It turned out that 90% of the WORST
on the air offenders and un-ID'ed stations turned out to be
Hams with Advanced and Extra Class Licensees, most of
of which had held that ticket for 10 or more years duration
and more importantly, at that time one needed to pass a 13 and 20
WPM code test respectively to obtain in the first place!
(...unless of course, you bribed the VEC for your code-credit
which was occuring in parts of the Southeastern USA at the time)

So Dick, please remember that keeping Code WILL NOT
keep the fruitcakes out of the hobby, nor will it bring more stations
into the same.

It won't keep 'em all out, that's for sure.

All of those violators also passed several written tests which included FCC
rules 'n' regs. Those written tests didn't stop 'em though. Shall we dump the
writtens 'cause they're not a perfect filter?

All that "variety of catcalls, music, snide comments, foul language,
noisemakers,
the infamous "dirty black box" and anything else in-between" - what mode were
those folks using? It sure wasn't CW/Morse.

Maybe it's not the code TEST but the code USE which is the filter.

73 de Jim, N2EY.

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , "Chic N Pox"
writes:

So Dick, please remember that keeping Code WILL NOT
keep the fruitcakes out of the hobby, nor will it bring more stations
into the same.

It won't keep 'em all out, that's for sure.

So its much more important to keep out some or a lot of ordinary law
abiding citizens who otherwise could be enjoying the ARS?

You never did get it, did you?

I said it before the last restructuring and I guess its necessary that
I say it again, "What I fear most about restructuring the ARS is a
lack of enforcement, and what I fear most about maintaining the Status
Quo is a lack of enforcement. The Morse Exam is no substitute for
enforcement."

Brian

On 31 Jul 2003 17:37:02 -0700, Brian wrote:

I said it before the last restructuring and I guess its necessary that
I say it again, "What I fear most about restructuring the ARS is a
lack of enforcement, and what I fear most about maintaining the Status
Quo is a lack of enforcement. The Morse Exam is no substitute for
enforcement."

For once we agree.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

Dick Carroll; wrote:

Phil Kane wrote:


On 31 Jul 2003 17:37:02 -0700, Brian wrote:


I said it before the last restructuring and I guess its necessary that
I say it again, "What I fear most about restructuring the ARS is a
lack of enforcement, and what I fear most about maintaining the Status
Quo is a lack of enforcement. The Morse Exam is no substitute for
enforcement."

For once we agree.



Not me. Not at all
. You know as well as anyone, better than most, that almost the only
"enforcement" we've had on the ARS for many years
prior to Riley's appointment WAS the code test.

Now, a 'difficult' (for that type of individual) test which discourages,
yea, FILTERS him from active, open participation is a poor
excuse for monitor vans and well trained and equipped crews.
But it's what we had.

Now we have Riley and a 5wpm code test. Soon only Riley. When he goes, I
for one believe the ARS will follow his exit, not far behind. By that time
there
will be far more than adequate evidence that the ARS is no longer a viable
self- policing entity, staffed with conscientious people willing and able to
conduct themselves in a manner commensurate with the priveleges granted,
most of which will shortly be summarily withdrawn.

Dick, these thoughts have been buzzing around the drafty recesses of my
head:

"I don't have time to learn Morse code....."

"I'm never going to use Morse code, I'm not going to learn it....."

"I think band plans are stupid, it's an obsolete idea for an obsolete
mode. They really aren't law anyhow...."

"There are a lot more people running SSB, why shouldn't they have the
bandwidth......"

"I don't feel like self policing, that's just interfereing with my
RIGHTS. Besides, there isn't enough enforcement personnel to catch me....."

At that point it is a dire situation indeed!

And it's already all been heard in this group.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , "Chic N Pox"
writes:

So Dick, please remember that keeping Code WILL NOT
keep the fruitcakes out of the hobby, nor will it bring more stations
into the same.

It won't keep 'em all out, that's for sure.

So its much more important to keep out some or a lot of ordinary law
abiding citizens who otherwise could be enjoying the ARS?

You never did get it, did you?


YOU never did get it. No one has any intent to keep anyone out who wants to
follow the rules and refrain from becoming a problem.

But keeping out people was the net effect of your code exam.

You never could see that
a code test never kept otu anyone who wanted in,. just a few who were too mildly interested to
bother. Like you.

I got in with a code exam.

I said it before the last restructuring and I guess its necessary that
I say it again, "What I fear most about restructuring the ARS is a
lack of enforcement, and what I fear most about maintaining the Status
Quo is a lack of enforcement. The Morse Exam is no substitute for
enforcement."

That's all you know about it.

It is true.

For years the code test was the ONLY factor that restricted
troublemakers from freely roaming the ham bands, FCC having been relegated by lack of funding
to more or less toothless-watchdog status.
Of course that doesn't nean a thing to you, but what that shows id your lack of
perception.

It shows that someone wasn't doing their job.

So when a few thousand refugees from way up there descend onto the HF bands
-as some have very recently indicated their intent right here on rrap- and lonely Riley is left
to sweep up,. just how much enforcement you think there'll be?
But press on- it's "kill the code" even if it kills us.

Dick, coded people can be idiots, too. Have you heard Kelly challenge
other to "Meet me on HF, any band, any mode, any time..."

Was that so he could sweet talk them?

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...

I just don't believe the public OR the government would tolerate CB on the

same level as ham radio has long existed. And that's exactly where it's
headed,
and has been for too many years.

Thats kind of nonsense wording, but I gather that the Code Exam "as a
barrier to idiots" doesn't work?

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...


Brian wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , "Chic N Pox"
writes:

So Dick, please remember that keeping Code WILL NOT
keep the fruitcakes out of the hobby, nor will it bring more stations
into the same.

It won't keep 'em all out, that's for sure.

So its much more important to keep out some or a lot of ordinary law
abiding citizens who otherwise could be enjoying the ARS?

You never did get it, did you?


YOU never did get it. No one has any intent to keep anyone out who wants
to
follow the rules and refrain from becoming a problem. You never could see
that
a code test never kept otu anyone who wanted in,. just a few who were too
mildly interested to
bother. Like you.


I said it before the last restructuring and I guess its necessary that
I say it again, "What I fear most about restructuring the ARS is a
lack of enforcement, and what I fear most about maintaining the Status
Quo is a lack of enforcement. The Morse Exam is no substitute for
enforcement."

That's all you know about it. For years the code test was the ONLY factor
that restricted
troublemakers from freely roaming the ham bands, FCC having been relegated
by lack of funding
to more or less toothless-watchdog status.
Of course that doesn't nean a thing to you, but what that shows id your
lack of
perception.

So when a few thousand refugees from way up there descend onto the HF
bands
-as some have very recently indicated their intent right here on rrap- and
lonely Riley is left
to sweep up,. just how much enforcement you think there'll be?
But press on- it's "kill the code" even if it kills us.



I remember a long time ago in this newsgroup, accusing some of using the CW
test as a filtering tool. I was nearly lambasted to Timbuktu. Now, it's
popular and OK to just make the declaration!

If CW is used as a "filter" to keep anyone of the ARS; then it's plain
wrong.

Kim W5TIT


---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

Kim W5TIT wrote:


I remember a long time ago in this newsgroup, accusing some of using the CW
test as a filtering tool. I was nearly lambasted to Timbuktu.

Ouch, that sounds painful! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -