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For those that are against the morse removal
What makes you all better operators it HAS been removed, so if you do not like it why don't you take up knitting or something. or stop all the bickering If the truth is known a lot of us have come up from the CB ranks over the years -- |
"Derek" wrote in message ... What makes you all better operators it HAS been removed, so if you do not like it why don't you take up knitting or something. or stop all the bickering If the truth is known a lot of us have come up from the CB ranks over the years -- I know a lot of ex CBers, now HAMS that are excellent CW operators. In fact WORLD CLASS CW Operators. So your logic is flawed. Dan/W4NTI |
In article , "Derek"
writes: What makes you all better operators it HAS been removed, so if you do not like it why don't you take up knitting or something. or stop all the bickering If the truth is known a lot of us have come up from the CB ranks over the years Gee, I guess "Derek" has a point! I was a CB'er for a whole six months -- and that was seven years before I became a ham! However, "Derek," I'm not going away! You're going to have to deal with me and those like me from now on! So don't get any ideas about being "equal" to your 20 WPM code tested, Extra-class SUPERIORS!!! 73 de Larry, K3LT This is way too easy... |
Superiors My arse, Morse code does not make you a better opperator, I did
learn it back in 1986 up to 12 words a min but due to family probs could not take the test. So why not give the newcomers a helping hand instead of slagging them off all the time, Just REMEMBER you was new to the hobby ONCE "Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message ... In article , "Derek" writes: What makes you all better operators it HAS been removed, so if you do not like it why don't you take up knitting or something. or stop all the bickering If the truth is known a lot of us have come up from the CB ranks over the years Gee, I guess "Derek" has a point! I was a CB'er for a whole six months -- and that was seven years before I became a ham! However, "Derek," I'm not going away! You're going to have to deal with me and those like me from now on! So don't get any ideas about being "equal" to your 20 WPM code tested, Extra-class SUPERIORS!!! 73 de Larry, K3LT This is way too easy... |
"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
... In article , "Derek" writes: Superiors My arse, Morse code does not make you a better opperator, I did learn it back in 1986 up to 12 words a min but due to family probs could not take the test. Derek: Another excuse. The "family problems" excuse -- one of the all-time favourites. So why not give the newcomers a helping hand instead of slagging them off all the time, Just REMEMBER you was new to the hobby ONCE Yes, I was. And I was definitely NOT "welcomed" with open arms, offered tea and crumpet, and made to feel at home at my first few radio club meetings. In fact, several times I was actually asked what the he** I was doing there. However, I persisted, gained acceptance by showing my willingness to learn and advance, and most importantly, I didn't make excuses for my lack of progress, even though I saw lots of other hams, usually the life-long Technicians who could never get beyond 5 WPM code, doing precisely that. I was also able to convince a few of these complainers that they could learn the code beyond 5 WPM, but that took a committment to become a CW operator and not just a phone yakker. 73 de Larry, K3LT Ex: G0LYW Larry had to start his own club... Kim W5TIT |
"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:
"Derek" writes: So why not give the newcomers a helping hand instead of slagging them off all the time, Just REMEMBER you was new to the hobby ONCE. Yes, I was. And I was definitely NOT "welcomed" with open arms, offered tea and crumpet, and made to feel at home at my first few radio club meetings. In fact, several times I was actually asked what the he** I was doing there. (snip) Were you publicly ridiculed, Larry? Did people sit around those club meetings you went to talking about how superior they were and how inferior your were? I strongly suspect anything they said to you or about you can't possibly compare to the negative garbage you've posted in this newsgroup about today's newcomers. At this point, newcomers aren't asking to be welcomed with open arms - that appears to be far too much to ask in this community. Instead, we're simply asking you to tone down the hateful rhetoric. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Derek" wrote in message ...
What makes you all better operators it HAS been removed, so if you do not like it why don't you take up knitting or something. or stop all the bickering If the truth is known a lot of us have come up from the CB ranks over the years Uhhhhhh...Derek, Old Man...it has NOT been "removed". The text of S25.5 was changed so as to allow specific administrations to determine wether or not to require code testing. As of today it is still the law of the land in the United States, and shall continue to be so until the FCC acts on the pending petitions to remove it. I have no doubt it will be removed, but the rulemaking process must and will be followed. And rather than "take up knitting", may I recommend a remedial English Composition course for you? Steve, K4YZ |
In article , Dwight Stewart
writes: I strongly suspect anything they said to you or about you can't possibly compare to the negative garbage you've posted in this newsgroup about today's newcomers. Dwight: Oh, you mean the TRUTH? Sorry if it's so inconvenient for you! At this point, newcomers aren't asking to be welcomed with open arms - that appears to be far too much to ask in this community. Instead, we're simply asking you to tone down the hateful rhetoric. I see. Now telling the truth about the dumbed-down, technically- disinclined, skills-challenged individuals now being attracted to ham radio is considered to be "hateful rhetoric." Typical liberal response. Yawn! Nothing new here! 73 de Larry, K3LT |
"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:
I see. Now telling the truth about the dumbed-down, technically-disinclined, skills-challenged individuals now being attracted to ham radio is considered to be "hateful rhetoric." Typical liberal response. Yawn! Nothing new here! Larry, you really need to get off the "liberal" nonsense. Your attitudes about code are more liberal than most and your attitudes towards others are more akin to that of the deep woods redneck than that of a conservative. Your desire for government protection of code testing to maintain your delusions of status is not unlike the liberal seeking protection for welfare state-like government benefits for other situations. And, if you don't know what a deep woods redneck is (a deep woods redneck is not the typical redneck), and how their attitudes are similar to yours, watch the movie "Deliverance." Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
In article , Dwight Stewart
writes: "Larry Roll K3LT" wrote: I see. Now telling the truth about the dumbed-down, technically-disinclined, skills-challenged individuals now being attracted to ham radio is considered to be "hateful rhetoric." Typical liberal response. Yawn! Nothing new here! Larry, you really need to get off the "liberal" nonsense. Your attitudes about code are more liberal than most and your attitudes towards others are more akin to that of the deep woods redneck than that of a conservative. Dwight: As usual, you don't know what you're talking about. Liberals want to have the world handed to them on a silver platter, without having to work to earn their own way. This is the perfect description of the NCTA -- they want full HF privileges, without being bothered to learn a useful communications skill like the Morse code. Therefore, they whine about the code testing requirements, making all their usual strawman arguments about the code being "obsolete" yada, yada, yada, ad nauseum, and they've finally been accommodated by the Liberal Elite at the ARRL and the FCC, who wish not to offend anyone by maintaining anything like traditional, high standards. Your desire for government protection of code testing to maintain your delusions of status is not unlike the liberal seeking protection for welfare state-like government benefits for other situations. I'm not an anarchist, Dwight. I believe that government has a role in our society, and maintaining standards in the ARS, an activity in which citizens are given the privilege of making use of the valuable and finate resource known as the RF spectrum, makes sense to me. The "government protection" whine is just another NCTA strawman. I prefer to think of it as the government "protecting" the whole ARS, not just the Morse code and it's testing requirement. This is a valid and essential role for the government, but one which will undoubtedly be dropped simply for the convenience of the bureaucrats involved. And, if you don't know what a deep woods redneck is (a deep woods redneck is not the typical redneck), and how their attitudes are similar to yours, watch the movie "Deliverance." I have been referred to as a "Yankee Redneck," and that is a term which I feel is probably closer to the truth. Yankees are strong-willed, independent, and opinionated people. "Rednecks," of any region, are usually tough, self-reliant, moral and decent people. Therefore, I'll accept this description, while taking exception to the "Deep Woods" angle, since I have all of my teeth, don't drink homemade corn liquor, and don't have intimate relations with first cousins. If any of these were true, then I'd be residing in Sussex County, Delaware, and not Kent County, which is where I live. 73 de Larry, K3LT |
"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:
Dwight Stewart writes: Larry, you really need to get off the "liberal" nonsense. Your attitudes about code are more liberal than most and your attitudes towards others are more akin to that of the deep woods redneck than that of a conservative. As usual, you don't know what you're talking about. Liberals want to have the world handed to them on a silver platter, without having to work to earn their own way. This is the perfect description of the NCTA -- they want full HF privileges, without being bothered to learn a useful communications skill like the Morse code. (snip) And conservatives want to end big government. More specifically, conservatives want to end unnecessary government rules which exist only to benefit the interests of a certain special interest group. While you and your ilk (a special interest group) have an interest in maintaining code testing to reinforce your self-perceived status, code testing itself is unnecessary today for anything outside that. Therefore, those seeking to end code testing are more compatible with conservative views, while those seeking to maintain code testing to reinforce status are more compatible with liberal views. I'm not an anarchist, Dwight. I believe that government has a role in our society, and maintaining standards in the ARS, an activity in which citizens are given the privilege of making use of the valuable and finate resource known as the RF spectrum, makes sense to me. Well, that's big of you. The question now is which standards (necessary or unnecessary), which you answer in the next few sentences. The "government protection" whine is just another NCTA strawman. I prefer to think of it as the government "protecting" the whole ARS, not just the Morse code and it's testing requirement. (snip) Then you support unnecessary government requirements. Code testing serves no real purpose today, either as a means of insuring communications support to those outside Ham Radio or as a means to keep riff-raft out of Ham Radio (you were able to get in). As such, it exists solely to maintain your own delusions of status and I don't think the government should be maintaining rules just so you can help yourself feel important. (snip) "Rednecks," of any region, are usually tough, self-reliant, moral and decent people. (snip) You fail that test in many ways. A redneck doesn't need government rules to be "self-reliant" and your attitudes towards others are certainly not "decent" or "moral." And, based on your old web page pictures, you clearly don't look that tough. So, failing that test, we have to look elsewhere for someone similar to you. And, looking solely at attitudes towards others, only the deep woods redneck springs to mind. These people (deep woods rednecks) don't like anybody outside kin or clan, and just barely, though not always, tolerate neighbors. Does this sound familiar, Larry? I don't know what you do with your kin, so I won't go there. However, speaking solely of Ham Radio, you don't like anyone outside your pro-code testing clan, and just barely, though not always, tolerate those outside the code testing debate. Of course, this is only a perception. Since you obviously have a different perception of yourself, we're never going to agree. As such, I'll drop the comparative speculation at this point. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
In article , Dwight Stewart
writes: And conservatives want to end big government. More specifically, conservatives want to end unnecessary government rules which exist only to benefit the interests of a certain special interest group. While you and your ilk (a special interest group) have an interest in maintaining code testing to reinforce your self-perceived status, code testing itself is unnecessary today for anything outside that. Therefore, those seeking to end code testing are more compatible with conservative views, while those seeking to maintain code testing to reinforce status are more compatible with liberal views. Dwight: You've conveniently failed to take into account the full context of my previous response on the same topic. I'm not an anarchist, Dwight. I believe that government has a role in our society, and maintaining standards in the ARS, an activity in which citizens are given the privilege of making use of the valuable and finite resource known as the RF spectrum, makes sense to me. Well, that's big of you. The question now is which standards (necessary or unnecessary), which you answer in the next few sentences. The "government protection" whine is just another NCTA strawman. I prefer to think of it as the government "protecting" the whole ARS, not just the Morse code and it's testing requirement. (snip) Then you support unnecessary government requirements. No, I don't. However, I don't consider the code testing requirement to be "unnecessary." I consider this requirement to be current, valid, and essential to maintaining the use of this valuable communications skill within the ARS. Code testing serves no real purpose today, Prove it… either as a means of insuring communications support to those outside Ham Radio …starting with this… or as a means to keep riff-raft out of Ham Radio (you were able to get in). Where have I ever said that it has this effect? I have repeatedly disclaimed this particular theory, usually citing the 20-WPM Extra- class HF Phone reprobates who collect virtually 100% of the NAL's issued to amateur radio operators. As such, it exists solely to maintain your own delusions of status and I don't think the government should be maintaining rules just so you can help yourself feel important. No, Dwight, that's just your own twisted and, quite frankly, slanderous opinion. (snip) "Rednecks," of any region, are usually tough, self-reliant, moral and decent people. (snip) You fail that test in many ways. A redneck doesn't need government rules to be "self-reliant" and your attitudes towards others are certainly not "decent" or "moral." If that's how you perceive me, then you're obviously no judge of character. And, based on your old web page pictures, you clearly don't look that tough. And just what is that supposed to mean? It looks like you're making the classic mistake of judging a book by it's cover. So, failing that test, we have to look elsewhere for someone similar to you. And, looking solely at attitudes towards others, only the deep woods redneck springs to mind. Well, I guess you're entitled to your opinion, groundless though it may be. These people (deep woods rednecks) don't like anybody outside kin or clan, and just barely, though not always, tolerate neighbors. I haven't had any complaints. Does this sound familiar, Larry? I don't know what you do with your kin, so I won't go there. However, speaking solely of Ham Radio, you don't like anyone outside your pro-code testing clan, and just barely, though not always, tolerate those outside the code testing debate. Dwight, you're digging yourself into a deep hole of scurrilous, groundless ad hominem attacks -- something that I've been accused of in the past. Of course, this is only a perception. And, I might add, not a very well-considered one at that. Since you obviously have a different perception of yourself, we're never going to agree. As such, I'll drop the comparative speculation at this point. That's the most intelligent thing you've said so far in this entire post. You've obviously had a bad day, so I'll let it go at that. 73 de Larry, K3LT |
"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:
Dwight Stewart wrote: Code testing serves no real purpose today, Prove itŠ Prove it does, Larry. Prove code testing serves a purpose today worthy of a specific government requirement above and beyond all other operating modes. The trends are moving towards the elimination of code testing. If you have a good reason to change that, now is certainly the time to speak up. Nothing you've said so far has been able to change those trends. Endlessly repeating what you've already said hasn't either. So, perhaps you should think of something new to say. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
In article , Dwight Stewart
writes: "Larry Roll K3LT" wrote: Dwight Stewart wrote: Code testing serves no real purpose today, Prove itÅ* Prove it does, Larry. Prove code testing serves a purpose today worthy of a specific government requirement above and beyond all other operating modes. Brian: I, and my fellow PCTA's, have been doing that for years here on this newsgroup, Fidonet, and in the editorial pages of the ham magazines. Now, it's your turn. I axed YOU to "prove" that "code testing serves no real purpose today." So do it. Provide your "proof," make it convincing, and do it right now -- or you will have just provided "proof" that you don't know what you're talking about! The trends are moving towards the elimination of code testing. If you have a good reason to change that, now is certainly the time to speak up. I have "spoken up" about this -- at great length. Nothing you've said so far has been able to change those trends. That's because we have a dumbed-down culture, and one voice cannot change an entire culture. Six years ago, I encouraged Nancy Kott and the FISTS to organize a campaign of "speaking up" which could have easily changed the outcome of the Restructuring NPRM of 1998. That didn't happen. Now, too little too late, she is making a last ditch effort. Well, when the "Zero WPM" NPRM comes out, I will provide my comments, as I did in '98. However, I can't do everyone else's reading, writing, and thinking for them. I had to do that for my alleged "bosses" in the Air Force, and I've decided I'm no longer going to give away my intellectual effort for anyone else to claim as their own. All of my fellow FISTS will have to come up with their own arguments to keep code testing, if that's what they want to do. Endlessly repeating what you've already said hasn't either. So, perhaps you should think of something new to say. If I am speaking the truth, which I am, then repeating that truth is just as valid as the repetitive, boring, and obnoxious droning of the NCTA. So, Brian -- are you going to defend your statement, or not? 73 de Larry, K3LT |
"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:
Dwight Stewart writes: Brian: Pay attention, Larry. I'm not Brian. I, and my fellow PCTA's, have been doing that for years here on this newsgroup, Fidonet, and in the editorial pages of the ham magazines. (snip) No, you've been ranting. If you had proven code testing serves a purpose today worthy of a specific government requirement above and beyond all other operating modes, code testing would not be going away. Now, it's your turn. I axed YOU to "prove" that "code testing serves no real purpose today." So do it. Provide your "proof," make it convincing, and do it right now -- or you will have just provided "proof" that you don't know what you're talking about! The proof is obvious, Larry. Code has disappeared or is disappearing in all other radio services. Since code testing was established as a license requirement to help maintain a pool of skilled radio operators and code has now virtually disappeared outside ham radio, code testing no longer serves a purpose as a license requirement. Code testing is disappearing exactly because of that. That's because we have a dumbed-down culture, and one voice cannot change an entire culture. Six years ago, (snip) Ah, the dumbed-down culture myth again. People today are not as dumb as you'd like to think they are, Larry. And they're certainly no dumber than some of those in our generation or in previous generations. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
Dwight Stewart wrote in part:
Ah, the dumbed-down culture myth again. People today are not as dumb as you'd like to think they are, Larry. And they're certainly no dumber than some of those in our generation or in previous generations. Dear Brian, You say that only because you'r dumn. DUMN KIDS! -- It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries. http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net "Max Imo" wrote in alt.ham-radio.vhf-uhf: "I suggest Corry keep his uninformed opinions to a subject he knows something about (porno, hacking, terrorism?)." |
"Unclaimed Mysteries" wrote:
You say that only because you'r dumn. DUMN KIDS! Unlike you, I'm certainly smart enough to know how to spell "dumb." And I suspect most kids today, the so-called dumb-downed ones, could spell it also. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
A recent New York State Math Regents exam results were tossed out because so
few students were able to pass the test. Passing the test is required for High School graduation. During pre exam trials of the questions it was found that only 47 percent of those who took the exam could pass the test. So what does this have to do with CW testing ? Absolutely nothing except for stupidity. |
"Steve Stone" wrote:
A recent New York State Math Regents exam results were tossed out because so few students were able to pass the test. (snip) I do agree there is a problem that must be addressed. But, sadly, I suspect the root of the problem lies mainly outside the school system. Television jumps immediately to mind. Television has fed children an almost continuous message over the last few decades that smart kids are nerds and dumb kids are cool. With that in mind, there is little reason for kids to make any real effort in school. And, since Americans seem to prefer the television industry's freedoms over better educated children, the problem may never go away. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
In article , Dwight Stewart
writes: Dwight Stewart writes: Brian: Pay attention, Larry. I'm not Brian. Dwight: Sorry, hard to tell you apart. You whiners all look the same to me! I, and my fellow PCTA's, have been doing that for years here on this newsgroup, Fidonet, and in the editorial pages of the ham magazines. (snip) No, you've been ranting. If you had proven code testing serves a purpose today worthy of a specific government requirement above and beyond all other operating modes, code testing would not be going away. Incorrect. The ARRL and FCC both have a self-serving agenda which motivates them to "lose" the code testing requirement. I doubt that there is *anything* I could do or say that could stop it from "going away." Now, it's your turn. I axed YOU to "prove" that "code testing serves no real purpose today." So do it. Provide your "proof," make it convincing, and do it right now -- or you will have just provided "proof" that you don't know what you're talking about! The proof is obvious, Larry. Code has disappeared or is disappearing in all other radio services. Unresponsive. We're talking about the Amateur Radio Service here, nothing else. Since code testing was established as a license requirement to help maintain a pool of skilled radio operators and code has now virtually disappeared outside ham radio, code testing no longer serves a purpose as a license requirement. Code testing is disappearing exactly because of that. See above. So far, you've provided zero proof. That's because we have a dumbed-down culture, and one voice cannot change an entire culture. Six years ago, (snip) Ah, the dumbed-down culture myth again. People today are not as dumb as you'd like to think they are, Larry. And they're certainly no dumber than some of those in our generation or in previous generations. It's no myth, Dwight. Our culture has been stagnated by 50 years of liberal propaganda in the high schools and universities, the constant whining of the liberal media, and the "mainstreaming" of any kind of perversion known to man in the name of "enlightenment." Sorry, but I have to call it like I see it. It's a dumbed-down culture, pure and simple. 73 de Larry, K3LT |
It's just that the direction of where people are becoming educated etc. has
changed. That is all it is..... -- Ryan, KC8PMX FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!) --. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-. ... --. .... - . .-. ... Ah, the dumbed-down culture myth again. People today are not as dumb as you'd like to think they are, Larry. And they're certainly no dumber than some of those in our generation or in previous generations. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
Dwight Stewart wrote in part:
I shouldn't have to go back and point to some of the crazy things people watched and did in years past. Remember the Village People, There was no ham radio operator character in the Village People. Glaring oversight. Kiss, Upon further review, Kiss rocked sufficiently. Disco, On the one hand, there is a special dung heap in the low-rent section of West Hell reserved for disco. On the other hand, only one thing is more pathetic than an aging hippie, and that's an aging punk. Guilty. the song Muskrat Love, Which version: the shambling and unspeakable America original, or the eldritch horror cover by The Captain and Tennille? houses filled with incense, chopper motorcycles, the song My Ding-a-Ling, Elton John's sunglasses, and so on. Elton John's glasses were actually PHR4CKT4L 4NT3NN4Z. I'm surprised you don't remember this. -- It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries. http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net |
Dwight Stewart wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote: some snippage BUT! the individual tests can be "smartened" or "dumbed". All that is up to us. We decide. But we have to decide within the constraints of the intent of those tests. To do that, we have to understand that intent. Far too many try to view the Ham Radio license exams as some sort of knowledge exam, when they are instead entrance exams into Ham Radio. I won't disagree with your basic premise, but therin lies danger. And Ham Radio is a recreation, not a vocation. And there is the trap! There are many recreations that require some learning to effectively use and enjoy them. Fishing and boating come to mind. I have a boat. I never took a test for its use, although I got a little pamphlet when I got my license. Whenever I bought a fishing license, I got another little pamphlet explaining seasons and creel limits, which are pretty darn analogous to band edges and power limits. But no tests. The FCC has other exams designed to examine vocational knowledge, as do local colleges and universities. Given those facts, I see no reason to change the existing written exams. Just be on guard, because others do. - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Unclaimed Mysteries" wrote:
There was no ham radio operator character in the Village People. Glaring oversight. LOL. Maybe the Ham Radio was at the WMCA. Anyway, I think you get the point I was trying to make. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Mike Coslo" wrote:
And there is the trap! There are many recreations that require some learning to effectively use and enjoy them. Fishing and boating come to mind. I have a boat. I never took a test for its use, although I got a little pamphlet when I got my license. (snip) The difference lies in the use of that recreation. As you know, Ham Radio also serves a purpose outside pure recreation (emergency service, for example). Therefore, the FCC took a more proactive approach, but one that is not that different from other recreations with a more serious side. Lets take your boat as an example. For pure recreation, you obviously do not need a license or operating exam. However, if you join an organization like the CG Auxiliary with the intent to use that boat for a more serious purpose, you are expected to take courses, pass exams, and maintain the boat to certain standards. The same is true for CAP and other similar mainly recreational activities with a serious side. Do you follow what I'm saying here? I'm trying to simplify things, while still getting across the point. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:54:10 GMT, Steve Stone wrote:
A recent New York State Math Regents exam results were tossed out because so few students were able to pass the test. Passing the test is required for High School graduation. During pre exam trials of the questions it was found that only 47 percent of those who took the exam could pass the test. I am a survivor of the New York State Regents' Exams 50+ years ago. It was a joke, because the last semester of each subject was devoted to reviewing past Regents' exams and therefore we learned zippo new during that time except how to pass the exam. And this was in a high school for nerds..... So what does this have to do with CW testing ? Absolutely nothing except for stupidity. Or lousy teaching. I suspect the latter. Kids aren't all born dumb - most get that way because they're not taught otherwise. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:14:02 GMT, Dwight Stewart wrote:
The Amateur Radio Service does not exist, nor has it ever existed, in a vacuum. At least two of our reasons for existing (pool of trained operators and emergency service) lies with those other radio services - radio services outside Ham Radio. Therefore, our rules and regulations must reflect the needs of those other radio services. At one time, those needs included code. That is no longer true. Code testing was once needed. That is no longer true. At one time (admittedly in ancient times) the Navy station that you were interfering with could/would come onto your frequency and order you in Morse Code to QRT, so knowledge/proficiency/skill (whichever) in Morse was essential. This, too, is no longer the case. It's no myth, Dwight. Our culture has been stagnated by 50 years of liberal propaganda in the high schools and universities, the constant whining of the liberal media, and the "mainstreaming" of any kind of perversion known to man in the name of "enlightenment." Sorry, but I have to call it like I see it. It's a dumbed-down culture, pure and simple. Larry, it's spelled "dumb-downed" or "dumb downed." And, while I agree with some of your points about the education system, I'm not willing to make blanket statements about an entire culture. That's OK...anything that is progressive or modern (called "liberal propaganda" or "whining of the liberal media") or is just plain different (called "any kind of perversion known to man in the name of enlightenment") processed through Larry comes out as the cause of all of society's ills including falling arches, low bit rates, foreign QRM, garblem CW, warts, and incessent rain. I've learned to tune it out as a sign of ignorance at the mildest and bigotry at the worst and get on with my worthwhile, enjoyable, and very moral "liberal" life. Most schools and universities today are either state owned or state supported. Therefore, to find an answer to the problems with schools, we only have to look as far as our own state representatives. And, since they like the federal education assistance available to them, those representatives are not going to change unless we vote them out and are willing to fund schools locally. I see no effort in either of those directions. A bloody shame both ways - the Feds play their games, the locals play theirs, and the kids - including my kids in their time - lose out. Private schools were no better......they just had different funding ills. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon |
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Dwight Stewart wrote:
"Phil Kane" wrote: A bloody shame both ways - the Feds play their games, the locals play theirs, and the kids - including my kids in their time - lose out. Private schools were no better......they just had different funding ills. I noticed you mentioned teachers in another message. If you get a chance, take a trip to your local school sometime. I recently visited several high schools and was impressed with the effort those teachers were putting into their jobs. What was surprising was the behavior of the kids in some classes (not all, some). In some classes, very few were paying attention to anything the teacher said. Instead, they were talking, playing radios, dancing, threatening each other, sleeping, making out (kissing and necking), and so on. They would have never even noticed anything the teacher did to help them learn. I don't see how anyone could possibly learn anything in such an environment. I talked to several teachers afterwards. According to them, the difference between classes is due to attempts to separate kids that are making an effort from those who are not. In the classes with the better behaved students, the classroom instruction advances at a much quicker rate. In the classes with the kids who are not trying, class size is reduced and the teachers just try to get the kids to absorb anything they're supposed to be learning. Most of those teachers admitted it was nearly a hopeless cause - how do you get kids to learn if they're not at all interested in doing so. I left with a simply question on my mind - what is causing those kids not to be interested in learning and how can that be changed. If we can answer that, I think 80 to 90 percent of the problem could be solved. And, as mentioned in another message, I suspect the answer lies outside the school system. My take is that the child has to be raised with an expectation that he or she will indeed do well in school. Many are not raised this way. Appreciation for the sciences, appreciation for learning and hard work, all that good stuff. Diminishing emphasis on "self-esteem" would be a great idea. Self-esteem should be something earned. One of the strangest things I have seen lately is the bizzare students who have a great sense of self-esteem with absolutely no reason for it. No accomplishments, no education, nothing but feeling really, really good about themselves. We also have to remember that Students are individuals and mature at different rates. I know many students who seemd to undergo a miraculous change at some point in high school, going from slacker to achiever almost overnight. My own kid underwent such a change right after he got a steady girlfriend, his grades improved, and his whole H.S. experience changed right around, because he started to get a future looking perspective. Oh, yeah. Get the kids thinking about something other than what's happening 5 minutes from now. - Mike KB3EIA - |
In article , Dwight Stewart
writes: It's no myth, Dwight. Our culture has been stagnated by 50 years of liberal propaganda in the high schools and universities, the constant whining of the liberal media, and the "mainstreaming" of any kind of perversion known to man in the name of "enlightenment." Sorry, but I have to call it like I see it. It's a dumbed-down culture, pure and simple. Larry, it's spelled "dumb-downed" or "dumb downed." Dwight: In your haste to correct me, you got it wrong both times. It is, in fact, "dumbed-down." And, while I agree with some of your points about the education system, I'm not willing to make blanket statements about an entire culture. That's OK, at least one of us is willing to do so. Most schools and universities today are either state owned or state supported. Therefore, to find an answer to the problems with schools, we only have to look as far as our own state representatives. And, since they like the federal education assistance available to them, those representatives are not going to change unless we vote them out and are willing to fund schools locally. I see no effort in either of those directions. Sad, but true. 73 de Larry, K3LT |
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In article , Dwight Stewart
writes: I do agree there is a problem that must be addressed. But, sadly, I suspect the root of the problem lies mainly outside the school system. Agreed! Television jumps immediately to mind. Television has fed children an almost continuous message over the last few decades that smart kids are nerds and dumb kids are cool. With that in mind, there is little reason for kids to make any real effort in school. Agreed, and there's more. In general, commercial boradcast TV portrays the following: - All sorts of conflicts can be resolved, and goals reached, in less than an hour or half-hour. - 'Dad' is usually loud, outspoken, immature, mistaken, and exercises amazingly poor judgement. But he's lovable and always forgiven. 'Mom' is quieter, stronger, the solver of problems and 'forgiver' of 'Dad'. The 'kids' (when present) are a mixture of the two. - People of all kinds live in spacious, clean, well-organized homes, yet rarely does anyone need to actually DO anything to keep them that way, or pay for them. - (This is my favorite) NOBODY *on* TV spends much time actually *watching* TV. Particularly children. -- One real problem with TV is that it is so totally passive. It requires very little besides one's attention. And, since Americans seem to prefer the television industry's freedoms over better educated children, the problem may never go away. Driven by the almighty dollar. I recall that when we were kids, there were all sorts of things that would not be shown on TV. Some of it was ludicrous - we were supposed to believe that Rob and Laura Petrie slept in twin beds? But a lot was geared to make TV G-rated. Cable TV broke those taboos in the '70s by arguing that since cable was not broadcast and you paid to have it in your home, you retained control. But then broadcast TV copied cable as much as possible to remain "competitive". Was all this "smart' or "dumb"? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
In article , Mike Coslo writes:
My take is that the child has to be raised with an expectation that he or she will indeed do well in school. Many are not raised this way. Appreciation for the sciences, appreciation for learning and hard work, all that good stuff. Which starts at home. Diminishing emphasis on "self-esteem" would be a great idea. Self-esteem should be something earned. One of the strangest things I have seen lately is the bizzare students who have a great sense of self-esteem with absolutely no reason for it. No accomplishments, no education, nothing but feeling really, really good about themselves. The problem is that the terms "self-esteem" has obtained political correctness while "self-confidence" is sadly neglected. Yet what kids need is the latter. And there's only one way to get real self-confidence: by doing things. We also have to remember that Students are individuals and mature at different rates. I know many students who seemd to undergo a miraculous change at some point in high school, going from slacker to achiever almost overnight. My own kid underwent such a change right after he got a steady girlfriend, his grades improved, and his whole H.S. experience changed right around, because he started to get a future looking perspective. Agreed, and there's even mo Different people mature at different rates in diferent areas. Oh, yeah. Get the kids thinking about something other than what's happening 5 minutes from now. Not just the kids..... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
In article , Dwight Stewart
writes: Remember the Village People, Kiss, Disco, the song Muskrat Love, houses filled with incense, chopper motorcycles, the song My Ding-a-Ling, Elton John's sunglasses, and so on. Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs comes to mind.... Actually, I don't think that people ae dumbed down compared to whatever mythical time that they were "smart". There are many different kinds of intelligence. And education. For me, the fundamental questions is something like: Is the person/activity/education/institution productive or destructive? (IOW, does it help people or hurt them?) I agree. Every generation has had it's moments - both good and bad. And the term "generation" is deceiving. At the same time the above sillinesses were commonplace, others of the same "generation" were doing great things. BUT! the individual tests can be "smartened" or "dumbed". All that is up to us. We decide. To a certain extent. Nobody has yet come up with a way to convince FCC to go back to doing the testing themselves. In fact, all suggestions to improve the writtens were rejected by FCC back in 1999. We can submit more and more questions to FCC for the question pools, but FCC retains the right to dump those it doesn't like. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote in message
... In article , Dwight Stewart writes: Remember the Village People, Kiss, Disco, the song Muskrat Love, houses filled with incense, chopper motorcycles, the song My Ding-a-Ling, Elton John's sunglasses, and so on. Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs comes to mind.... Actually, I don't think that people ae dumbed down compared to whatever mythical time that they were "smart". One of my favorite songs when I was a teen-ager is Pleasant Valley Sunday: The local rock group down the street Is trying hard to learn their song Seranade the weekend squire, who just came out to mow his lawn Another Pleasant Valley Sunday Charcoal burning everywhere Rows of houses that are all the same And no one seems to care See Mrs. Gray she's proud today because her roses are in bloom Mr. Green he's so serene, He's got a t.v. in every room Another Pleasant Valley Sunday Here in status symbol land Mothers complain about how hard life is And the kids just don't understand Creature comfort goals They only numb my soul and make it hard for me to see My thoughts all seem to stray, to places far away I need a change of scenery Ta Ta Ta... Another Pleasant Valley Sunday Charcoal burning everywhere Another Pleasant Valley Sunday Here in status symbol land Another Pleasant Valley Sunday That song was a completely anti-social, anti-success song, according to my parents, grandparents, etc. Yet, quite prophetic when looking back now. Kim W5TIT |
In article , "Kim"
writes: Subject: For those that are against the morse removal From: "Kim" Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:04:21 -0500 "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , Dwight Stewart writes: Remember the Village People, Kiss, Disco, the song Muskrat Love, houses filled with incense, chopper motorcycles, the song My Ding-a-Ling, Elton John's sunglasses, and so on. Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs comes to mind.... Actually, I don't think that people ae dumbed down compared to whatever mythical time that they were "smart". One of my favorite songs when I was a teen-ager is Pleasant Valley Sunday: Pseudo-performed by the Monkees The local rock group down the street Is trying hard to learn their song Seranade the weekend squire, who just came out to mow his lawn Another Pleasant Valley Sunday Charcoal burning everywhere Rows of houses that are all the same And no one seems to care See Mrs. Gray she's proud today because her roses are in bloom Mr. Green he's so serene, He's got a t.v. in every room Another Pleasant Valley Sunday Here in status symbol land Mothers complain about how hard life is And the kids just don't understand Creature comfort goals They only numb my soul and make it hard for me to see My thoughts all seem to stray, to places far away I need a change of scenery Ta Ta Ta... Another Pleasant Valley Sunday Charcoal burning everywhere Another Pleasant Valley Sunday Here in status symbol land Another Pleasant Valley Sunday That song was a completely anti-social, anti-success song, according to my parents, grandparents, etc. Good heavens, it was from a "manufactured" music group that was about a saccharine as could be imagined at the time. The song is really an anti-conformity ditty, loosely derived from Malvina Reynolds' "Little Boxes" and others of that ilk. Yet, quite prophetic when looking back now. How? -- The Monkees' did give us at least one legitimate decent song, although not directly. "I'm A Believer" was a throwaway of 30+ years ago until Smash Mouth covered it for the film "Shrek" and showed what could be done with that material in talented hands. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote in message
... In article , "Kim" writes: The song is really an anti-conformity ditty, loosely derived from Malvina Reynolds' "Little Boxes" and others of that ilk. Yet, quite prophetic when looking back now. How? Oh, I think many today--even me--are quite involved and disolved with keeping ourselves happy with material things. While I am not a keep up with the Jones' kind of person (i.e., unaffected by "status" symbols), I do find amusement in "things" more than I used to. I used to be happy just to watch ants... Kim W5TIT |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Kim" writes: "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Kim" writes: The song is really an anti-conformity ditty, loosely derived from Malvina Reynolds' "Little Boxes" and others of that ilk. Yet, quite prophetic when looking back now. How? Oh, I think many today--even me--are quite involved and disolved with keeping ourselves happy with material things. While I am not a keep up with the Jones' kind of person (i.e., unaffected by "status" symbols), I do find amusement in "things" more than I used to. I used to be happy just to watch ants... Ah - good explanation! And observation... Here's another one for ya... From 1972-1976 I attended a large urban university. The big thing back then was "nonconformity" to the rules of the "establishment", particularly in manners of slang, clothes and haircut. After a while, though, it became clear that we'd simply traded one form of conformity for another, and that we "nonconformists" pretty much dressed alike, talked alike, and had similar haircuts. The university gave us more than schooling - we were actually educated, often by experiences that seemed minor at the time. 73 de Jim, N2EY Far out Dude !!! Dan/W4NTI |
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