Dick Carroll wrote in message ...
Brian Kelly wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
Kim W5TIT wrote:

Newp, sorry. A 40M 1/4-wave dipole can be made to resonate just fine and
work wonderfully. Its position to the ground and center angle have
everything to do with how well it will radiate. And, using a balun or not
doesn't change the whole concept of using a 1/4-wave dipole at any
frequency.

Whether you want them to or not, they work.

A couple points here Kim.

According to the ARRL handbook 2003 edition, chapte 20 page 4:

A fundamental form of antenna is a wire whose length is half the
transmitting wavelength. It is the unit from which many more complex
forms of antennas are constructed and is known as a dipole antenna.

It goes on from there if you want more.

Next I modeled two antennas in EZNEC.

One is a half wave dipole for the middle of the 40 meter band at 7.150
mHz. Each leg of the antenna is approximately 1/4 wavelength long at
65.45 feet. This antenna models out at an SWR of a little over 1.5:1 at
the center frequency, and 2:1 at 7.3 mHz and a touch over 2 mHz at 7 mHz
with the antenna at 50 feet, the take off angle is 35 degrees. All in
all, not too bad an antenna. Most modern rigs will handle the antenna
without a tuner, or simply with their internal tuner.

Next, I modeled a quarter wave dipole for the same frequency and all
other paramaters. With the legs at 32.7 feet, the antenna now displays
somewhat near infinite SWR. The take off angle has now risen to 54 degrees.

Don't confuse her with Novice physics Mike, she's never had physics
and doesn't know a NEC deck from a sun deck.


It's even worse. She has no idea how to break a sine wave down into its components, nor
anything about the 360 degrees involved.

Don't bring up degrees, it's a sore point for her.

To say nothing about how voltage/current/impedance
values appear at each point on the waveform when it is expressed as a dipole antenna, and how
they interrelate. NOTHING about electrical wavelength versus linear measurement, or what that
even means..

.. . . I wonder how she'd tweak the length of her "quarter wave" dipole
if ya tossed her the free-space length equation and told her to crank
in the Vf term for a specific radiator material . .

All that is really quite simple and can be easily learned and understood with no help from
NEC. It's antenna basics.

Right: We were both Novices back when newbies had KNOW somthing about
antennas.

But with the testing requirements now in place, it won't be.

**OBVIOUSLY!**

I dunno who it was who made the comment in this thread but he's right,
the more "quarter wave dipoles" these refugees from 27 Mhz use the
less QRM we have to deal with.

That antenna is simply not going to work well at all.

Until she figures out how to match her 50 ohm transiciever output to several thousand ohms or
more.

But.....she isn't actually *using* a 1/4 wave dipole - she just thinks she is.
In fact she's sure of it. She said so.

Along these lines . . Field Day a few years back and one of the
codeless village idiots had put up some tribander or another which I
was using on 20 CW. I pointed it just south of due west from here in
Philly. To check things out I quickly worked a couple Euros, an OA, a
VK and a JA. Without touching the rotator control box.

I put the 259B to it and the SWR was flat at about 1.7:1 from 13.5 to
14.5 Mhz. I asked him what the hell kinda "beam" this crapper was.

"Well, it's not a CW antenna, it's tuned for the phone bands . . ".

I figger that pile of aluminum tubing at the high end of the coax was
acting as a top hat for the gawdawful lossy feedline which was doing
all the radiating.

Then came his buddy, another one, who stated that the reason g5rv's
"work" is because they're "trap antennas". I asked him to show me the
traps in the 40M g5rv we'd put up. "I don't know where they are but
they have to be there somewhere."

N2EY was there too . .

And neither of us have been back to run FD with that pack of 21st
Century nitwits.

w3rv

Brian Kelly wrote in message ...

Bilge. All of it. A 66 foot dipole is roughly a *half wave* dipole on
40M and a 134 foot dipole is roughly a *half wave* dipole on 80M. A 33
foot long center-fed dipole is a quarter wavelength long on 40M but it
is not resonant on 40M and ya better not get stupid and feed it with
coax then just plug it into the back of yer radio if ya wanna work
anybody with it.


A search on google on quarter wave dipole will give plenty of sources.

A search on google on quarter wave dipole will give plenty of sources.


Good, keep using 1/4 wave Dipoles

JJ wrote:
Brian Kelly wrote in message ...

Bilge. All of it. A 66 foot dipole is roughly a *half wave* dipole
on 40M and a 134 foot dipole is roughly a *half wave* dipole on
80M. A 33 foot long center-fed dipole is a quarter wavelength long
on 40M but it is not resonant on 40M and ya better not get stupid
and feed it with coax then just plug it into the back of yer radio
if ya wanna work anybody with it.



A search on google on quarter wave dipole will give plenty of
sources.


That's where we started on this sorry thread. Go back and read the
posts, including my 1/4 vs 1/2 wave dipole design done in EZNEC, and
then let us know how well a 1/4 wave dipole works.

Then why don't you build a 1/4 wave dipole for whatever band gets you
into Central PA. We'll do a sked, and see how well your antenna works.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message
That's where we started on this sorry thread. Go back and read the
posts, including my 1/4 vs 1/2 wave dipole design done in EZNEC, and
then let us know how well a 1/4 wave dipole works.

Then why don't you build a 1/4 wave dipole for whatever band gets you
into Central PA. We'll do a sked, and see how well your antenna works.


Geeesh what a knuckle headed bunch. I never claimed that a 1/4 dipole would
work as well as a 1/2 wave. However hook it to some ladder line and a tuner
and you might be supprised. This all started when the so called "experts"
here said there is no such thing. All I am saying is go to google and do a
search and it will be obvious to the most casual observer that there is. Was
I too fast for you are do I need to slow down?

JJ wrote:

Brian Kelly wrote in message ...

Bilge. All of it. A 66 foot dipole is roughly a *half wave* dipole on
40M and a 134 foot dipole is roughly a *half wave* dipole on 80M. A 33
foot long center-fed dipole is a quarter wavelength long on 40M but it
is not resonant on 40M and ya better not get stupid and feed it with
coax then just plug it into the back of yer radio if ya wanna work
anybody with it.


A search on google on quarter wave dipole will give plenty of sources.

It surely does but not many of them actually have anything to do with a
quarter wave dipole. Many deal with comparisons between half wave
dipoles and quarter wave monopoles.

While it is possible to construct a quarter wave dipole, such an antenna
would be quite difficult to match and would not be very efficient.
Despite this, our resident airhead, Kim, has come up with a number of
urls which she is positive prove her case. She even thinks she is using
a quarter wave dipole at home.

Kim is a ditz who knows nothing about morse code or antennas.

Dave K8MN

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

That's where we started on this sorry thread. Go back and read the
posts, including my 1/4 vs 1/2 wave dipole design done in EZNEC, and
then let us know how well a 1/4 wave dipole works.

Did you pay Roy for your copy of EZNEC or are you one of the software
bootleggers who steal from Roy Lewallen's work?

Do you know how to operate EZNEC properly?

Then why don't you build a 1/4 wave dipole for whatever band gets you
into Central PA. We'll do a sked, and see how well your antenna works.

Why don't you write a Famous Paper on "Why a 1/4-Wave Dipole Will NOT
Work" and have it published in RF Design magazine? [that's an electronics
trade publication, usually well-respected among RF industry folks]

I'd love to see the Letters to the Editor section on that one.

LHA

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

Then came his buddy, another one, who stated that the reason g5rv's
"work" is because they're "trap antennas". I asked him to show me the
traps in the 40M g5rv we'd put up. "I don't know where they are but
they have to be there somewhere."

N2EY was there too . .

And neither of us have been back to run FD with that pack of 21st
Century nitwits.

Tell us all how it feels to be an 1896 Nitwit, nitwit.

Beep, beep.

LHA

However hook it to some ladder line and a tuner
and you might be supprised

Good Idea, I suggest all No-Coders use this as there Antenna of choice

Dick Carroll wrote in message ...

I would think you'd know that ladder line and a fixed dipole, while they
will
work well on a wide range of bands and frequencies, are not the cureall for
all
ills.

I never said they were.

Attempting to match a dipole at it's highest natural impedance point isn't
even close to "good engineering practice". It isn't even good "poor
engineering
practice". There are antennas that just can't be adequately matched and
this is
one.

I never said it was "good or bad engineering practrice".

You can always call a dipole whatever you want it to be. A halfwave dipole
at
40 meters is a quarterwave dipole at 80 meters, if you want it to be that
way.
But it sure isn't very smart. And don't expect it to work out.

I never said it would. Some claimed there is no such thing as a 1/4 wave
dipole, I simply stated there is, I never made any claims it would be a good
antenna.

Gee, your reading comprehension isn't any better than some of the others.