"JJ" wrote in message
...

Dan/W4NTI wrote in message ...


Why bother ? I just used my 20 meter dipole, coax fed with 50 ohm cable
on
7.030. The SWR was off the scale.

I then hit the tune button on my FT-1000mp and that piece of junk
wouldn't
tune it. So I called CQ for a couple of hours. No replies.

I then called my buddy across town to fire up and give me a listen. I
was
S1 and almost in the noise.

So, for an experiment, knowing it was just a lark because the Texas Twit
said so, I hooked up my 40 meter half wave, center fed with 50 ohm coax.
My signal was now 30 db over S9.

Can you get the Texas Twit to explain this for me please.

Dan/W4NTI

Just for kicks, I borrowed a tuner from a friend over the weekend. This is
a
homebrew job. Hooked it to the 40 meter dipole and loaded the KWM-2 into
it
on 80 meters. Made 5 contacts, 3 out of state, all good copy on both ends.
Guess you just don't know how to do it dannyboy.


Yeah your right 'JJ'. I just don't know how to do it. But then I give a
damn if I get a good report.

Dan/W4NTI

"JJ" wrote in message
...

Dan/W4NTI wrote in message ...


Why bother ? I just used my 20 meter dipole, coax fed with 50 ohm cable
on
7.030. The SWR was off the scale.

I then hit the tune button on my FT-1000mp and that piece of junk
wouldn't
tune it. So I called CQ for a couple of hours. No replies.

I then called my buddy across town to fire up and give me a listen. I
was
S1 and almost in the noise.

So, for an experiment, knowing it was just a lark because the Texas Twit
said so, I hooked up my 40 meter half wave, center fed with 50 ohm coax.
My signal was now 30 db over S9.

Can you get the Texas Twit to explain this for me please.

Dan/W4NTI

Just for kicks, I borrowed a tuner from a friend over the weekend. This is
a
homebrew job. Hooked it to the 40 meter dipole and loaded the KWM-2 into
it
on 80 meters. Made 5 contacts, 3 out of state, all good copy on both ends.
Guess you just don't know how to do it dannyboy.



Works darned great, doesn't it?! Did all my MARS on it, including net
control for nearly a year. So, yer right, apparently the "high" (high all
right) class hams just don't know how to do it!

Kim W5TIT

Works darned great, doesn't it?! Did all my MARS on it, including net
control for nearly a year. So, yer right, apparently the "high" (high all
right) class hams just don't know how to do it!

Kim W5TIT

Spoken like a TRUE Dump Down CBplusser who doesnt have a Clue.

Dick Carroll wrote in message ...



Don't pay them too much attention, Bruce. Neither JJ nor TwIT realizes
they were NOT using a 1/4 wave dipole. If they had been, neither would
have gotten a signal out of the back yard.

If the *antenna system* took a load and performed under the circumstances
they describe, then both JJ and TwIT were loading the outer surface of the
coax shield, and *that* was doing a major part of the radiating.

Of course when one side of a 1/4 wave dipole is attached to the braid
of the coax with no decoupling, then the dipole is no longer a 1/4 wave
dipole! What it becomes then depends entirely on
the feedline length as well as other local factors. So then it will
probably take some load, and maybe even load up to full supplied power,
as JJ described. At that point it's a crap shoot-you don't know *what*
you've got! For sure it ISN'T a 1/4 wave dipole! But the uninformed will
think their "1/4 wave dipole" worked just fine!

If JJ had used a good isolation choke or 1:1 balun to decouple the coax
from the 40 meter dipole at the feedpoint the tuner would have balked big
time, and all that RF would have bounced around inside it, and made
itself known quite loudly in the form of arcs.

The 40 meter dipole does have an HF 1:1 balun at the feedpoint.


The KWM-2 finals might
have sparked a bit, too.

Why? As far as the M-2 was concerned, it was seeing a good match, courtesy
of the tuner (that is one function the tuner performs in case you didn't
know). There was no arcing anywhere...have no idea what the swr was on the
feedline, but that is not the point. The point is, I did get a signal out
and made contacts, all with good readability on both ends. I have never
claimed this would make a good antenna or that one should operate such, just
proved that it can work to some extent. I thought you were smarter than
dannyboy but guess not.

Why? As far as the M-2 was concerned, it was seeing a good match, courtesy
of the tuner (that is one function the tuner performs in case you didn't
know). There was no arcing anywhere...have no idea what the swr was on the
feedline, but that is not the point. The point is, I did get a signal out
and made contacts, all with good readability on both ends. I have never
claimed this would make a good antenna or that one should operate such, just
proved that it can work to some extent. I thought you were smarter than
dannyboy but guess not.


Good example of the NEW CBHAMS. By the way why dont you call it a Rhombic, or
Sterba Curtain, or maybe even QUAD, or A Yagi, heck call it what you want, you
still dont have a CLUE.

JJ wrote:

Dick Carroll wrote in message ...

Don't pay them too much attention, Bruce. Neither JJ nor TwIT realizes
they were NOT using a 1/4 wave dipole. If they had been, neither would
have gotten a signal out of the back yard.

If the *antenna system* took a load and performed under the circumstances
they describe, then both JJ and TwIT were loading the outer surface of the
coax shield, and *that* was doing a major part of the radiating.

Of course when one side of a 1/4 wave dipole is attached to the braid
of the coax with no decoupling, then the dipole is no longer a 1/4 wave
dipole! What it becomes then depends entirely on
the feedline length as well as other local factors. So then it will
probably take some load, and maybe even load up to full supplied power,
as JJ described. At that point it's a crap shoot-you don't know *what*
you've got! For sure it ISN'T a 1/4 wave dipole! But the uninformed will
think their "1/4 wave dipole" worked just fine!

If JJ had used a good isolation choke or 1:1 balun to decouple the coax

from the 40 meter dipole at the feedpoint the tuner would have balked big

time, and all that RF would have bounced around inside it, and made
itself known quite loudly in the form of arcs.


The 40 meter dipole does have an HF 1:1 balun at the feedpoint.



The KWM-2 finals might
have sparked a bit, too.


Why? As far as the M-2 was concerned, it was seeing a good match, courtesy
of the tuner (that is one function the tuner performs in case you didn't
know). There was no arcing anywhere...have no idea what the swr was on the
feedline, but that is not the point. The point is, I did get a signal out
and made contacts, all with good readability on both ends. I have never
claimed this would make a good antenna or that one should operate such, just
proved that it can work to some extent. I thought you were smarter than
dannyboy but guess not.

I'll admit stupidity if you can explain how and why that antenna worked
as a quater wave dipole.

I already presented some fairly comprehensive data on why it wouldn't.
That was pretty basic stuff.

That a quarter wave dipole antenna would work is fairly extraordinary.

Present your evidence and your theory/rationale.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
. ..
JJ wrote:

Dick Carroll wrote in message ...

Don't pay them too much attention, Bruce. Neither JJ nor TwIT realizes
they were NOT using a 1/4 wave dipole. If they had been, neither would
have gotten a signal out of the back yard.

If the *antenna system* took a load and performed under the
circumstances
they describe, then both JJ and TwIT were loading the outer surface of
the
coax shield, and *that* was doing a major part of the radiating.

Of course when one side of a 1/4 wave dipole is attached to the braid
of the coax with no decoupling, then the dipole is no longer a 1/4 wave
dipole! What it becomes then depends entirely on
the feedline length as well as other local factors. So then it will
probably take some load, and maybe even load up to full supplied power,
as JJ described. At that point it's a crap shoot-you don't know *what*
you've got! For sure it ISN'T a 1/4 wave dipole! But the uninformed will
think their "1/4 wave dipole" worked just fine!

If JJ had used a good isolation choke or 1:1 balun to decouple the coax

from the 40 meter dipole at the feedpoint the tuner would have balked
big

time, and all that RF would have bounced around inside it, and made
itself known quite loudly in the form of arcs.


The 40 meter dipole does have an HF 1:1 balun at the feedpoint.



The KWM-2 finals might
have sparked a bit, too.


Why? As far as the M-2 was concerned, it was seeing a good match,
courtesy
of the tuner (that is one function the tuner performs in case you didn't
know). There was no arcing anywhere...have no idea what the swr was on
the
feedline, but that is not the point. The point is, I did get a signal
out
and made contacts, all with good readability on both ends. I have never
claimed this would make a good antenna or that one should operate such,
just
proved that it can work to some extent. I thought you were smarter than
dannyboy but guess not.

I'll admit stupidity if you can explain how and why that antenna worked
as a quater wave dipole.

I already presented some fairly comprehensive data on why it wouldn't.
That was pretty basic stuff.

That a quarter wave dipole antenna would work is fairly extraordinary.

Present your evidence and your theory/rationale.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Probably for the same reason loading up house plumbing will work, or loading
up a coat hanger, or whatever. With a tuner, and with other apparatuses in
use or not, coupling--whatever you want to call it--if a signal gets out, it
gets out and that is all that counts *sometimes.*

Kim W5TIT

Probably for the same reason loading up house plumbing will work, or loading
up a coat hanger, or whatever. With a tuner, and with other apparatuses in
use or not, coupling--whatever you want to call it--if a signal gets out, it
gets out and that is all that counts *sometimes.*

Kim W5TIT

And of course this has no reference to 1/4 Wave dipole

"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...


WA8ULX wrote:
Works darned great, doesn't it?! Did all my MARS on it, including net
control for nearly a year. So, yer right, apparently the "high" (high
all
right) class hams just don't know how to do it!

Kim W5TIT


Spoken like a TRUE Dump Down CBplusser who doesnt have a Clue.


Don't pay them too much attention, Bruce. Neither JJ nor TwIT realizes
they were NOT using a 1/4 wave dipole. If they had been, neither would
have gotten a signal out of the back yard.

If the *antenna system* took a load and performed under the
circumstances
they describe, then both JJ and TwIT were loading the outer surface of the
coax shield, and *that* was doing a major part of the radiating.

Of course when one side of a 1/4 wave dipole is attached to the braid
of the coax with no decoupling, then the dipole is no longer a 1/4 wave
dipole! What it becomes then depends entirely on
the feedline length as well as other local factors. So then it will
probably take some load, and maybe even load up to full supplied power,
as JJ described. At that point it's a crap shoot-you don't know *what*
you've got! For sure it ISN'T a 1/4 wave dipole! But the uninformed will
think their "1/4 wave dipole" worked just fine!

If JJ had used a good isolation choke or 1:1 balun to decouple the coax
from the 40 meter dipole at the feedpoint the tuner would have balked big
time, and all that RF would have bounced around inside it, and made
itself known quite loudly in the form of arcs. The KWM-2 finals might
have sparked a bit, too.

Been there, done that, seen it happen, got the RF burns.

As I said earlier, they weren't using a 1/4 wave dipole, they just
thought
they were.

All this stuff is in the books.

Dick


I was trying to be 'funny' on my post of using the 20 meter dipole on 40. I
can see that was a waste of time. As is trying to explain antenna theory to
the Texas Twit. Why bother?

Dan/W4NTI

Kim W5TIT wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message

some snippage

I already presented some fairly comprehensive data on why it wouldn't.
That was pretty basic stuff.

That a quarter wave dipole antenna would work is fairly extraordinary.

Present your evidence and your theory/rationale.

- Mike KB3EIA -



Probably for the same reason loading up house plumbing will work, or loading
up a coat hanger, or whatever. With a tuner, and with other apparatuses in
use or not, coupling--whatever you want to call it--if a signal gets out, it
gets out and that is all that counts *sometimes.*

The idea of using a random length of wire or the rain gutter is a time
honored method of making an emergency/stealth or just plain experimental
antenna. Tuners often make these antennas work - some ok, some not so
well. And a large part of the not so good operation is when the tuner
can't match the antenna.

My MFJ949 tuner manual has several lengths that the user is encouraged
to avoid. According to them they are the worst possible line lengths:

160 meter dipole - 130 feet

80 meter dipole - 66 feet

40 meter dipole - 32 feet

If you do the calculations, you'll see what fractional wavelength those
antennas are for the respective bands.

note: if anyone looks up the MFJ info, they will see a few other
frequencies also on the "do not use" list. These are odd multiples of
1/4 wavelength, so I left them out of this discussion. But in general,
its a related problem - odd multiples of 1/4 wave are not so hot to use.

They note that if you have trouble tuning an antenna on a frequency you
want to use, you should shorten or lengthen the antenna by 1/8th
wavelength. Then you should be able to get the tuner to match things up.

- Mike KB3EIA -