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Isnt it Funny
No-Coders have whinned about being forced to learn CW to use HF. Now we have
BPL come along, which will provide MILLIONS of people use of HF without taking a CW test. Now the No-Code Whinners are Whinning that its not fair that Millions of people in this country will be able to use HF without a CW Test. |
"WA8ULX" wrote:
No-Coders have whinned about being forced to learn CW to use HF. Now we have BPL come along, which will provide MILLIONS of people use of HF without taking a CW test. (snip) Isn't it amazing how unaware you are? Millions of people with no CW/code skills have been using HF for decades. Of course, none of them (CB'ers) are members of the licensed ham radio community. Instead, a couple hundred thousand Technicians did the right thing and "earned" a license to join the ARS, all without being offered even the basic HF operating privileges of an unlicensed CB'er. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message thlink.net...
"WA8ULX" wrote: No-Coders have whinned about being forced to learn CW to use HF. Now we have BPL come along, which will provide MILLIONS of people use of HF without taking a CW test. (snip) Isn't it amazing how unaware you are? Dwight, given Bruce's many posts here over the past few years, I cease to be amazed by anything he writes. Occasionally I am amazed at my ability to decode what he has written.... Millions of people with no CW/code skills have been using HF for decades. Of course, none of them (CB'ers) are members of the licensed ham radio community. Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? This is not a trivial question. FCC created 27 MHz cb for a definite purpose, but they quickly lost control of it to the point. The FCC of 1958 could not imagine that people would just ignore the rules to the point that enforcement of said rules became impossible. Why did rule-breaking on 27 MHz become the norm rather than the exception? Instead, a couple hundred thousand Technicians did the right thing and "earned" a license Why the quotes around "earned"? Anyone with a valid amateur radio license earned it. (Licenses issued as a result of cheating are not valid, of course, and FCC will invalidate them if sufficient evidence of cheating is presented). to join the ARS, all without being offered even the basic HF operating privileges of an unlicensed CB'er. Let's see.....cb user gets a couple of watts on 40/80 channels and two modes (SSB and AM). Tech gets up to 1500 watts on every amateur band above 30 MHz, if you just count the most commonly used modes (CW, FM, SSB, AM, RTTY, packet, APRS, SSTV, FSTV, PSK-31, DSSS, FHSS, more TOR modes than I can recall, fax, data,..... Also satellites, repeaters, remote control, remote bases, and a bunch of other stuff. Plus almost any new mode or technology that a ham can dream up, implement and document to the FCC. Now which is the better deal? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote:
Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? I wasn't offering CB as a model. In fact, because of its rather unique history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit, and so on). The movie, Smokey & the Bandit, was almost classroom instruction on how to use a CB radio, with Bert Renolds ("Bandit") showing Sally Fields ("Frog") what buttons to push and what to say. As you may remember, this movie was about a trucker moving illegal cargo across the country as quickly as possible, while "Bandit" (with "Frog" riding along) distracted police away from the truck using his faster car. CB radios were used throughout the movie. Obviously, movies like these attracted people with the same "outlaw" mentality to CB Radio. Today, these people attract others like themselves to CB Radio. However, if Hollywood had used Ham Radio in those movies instead, perhaps these same people would have been attracted to Ham Radio and Ham Radio would have the problems today instead of CB Radio. But, as it is, Ham Radio does not offer the same attractions for these people (the "outlaw" image, anonymous operation, and so on). Because of that, most of these people have no interested in Ham Radio. The few who are interested in Ham Radio are attracted for what Ham Radio has to offer, not what CB has to offer. Therefore, these people are not likely to display the same CB-like behavior in the Ham Radio frequencies. The fact that a good number, perhaps the majority, of today's Ham Operators owned a CB radio sometime in the past (or present) supports this conclusion. Now which is the better deal? My message was an attempt to undermine Bruce's many posts trashing Technicians (he is the one constantly bringing up the CB nonsense), not to make any real comparisons between CB and Ham Radio (or CB'ers and Technicians). Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
In article , "Dwight Stewart"
writes: "N2EY" wrote: Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? I wasn't offering CB as a model. OK, fine. In fact, because of its rather unique history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit, and so on). I disagree. Those movies came out *after* wholesale disregard for the rules was already very common on 27. (Although I've never been a cb user, I have listened there since the mid-'60s and known many cb users). At least in the areas where I've lived, regard for the rules was pretty much tossed away by the mid-to-late 1960s. FCC tried to enforce the rules, but their forces were simply too few. The movie, Smokey & the Bandit, was almost classroom instruction on how to use a CB radio, with Bert Renolds ("Bandit") showing Sally Fields ("Frog") what buttons to push and what to say. As you may remember, this movie was about a trucker moving illegal cargo across the country as quickly as possible, while "Bandit" (with "Frog" riding along) distracted police away from the truck using his faster car. CB radios were used throughout the movie. Never saw the whole thing. This was in the era of antihero movies like "Bonnie and Clyde", "Dirty Mary Crazy Larry" and such. Obviously, movies like these attracted people with the same "outlaw" mentality to CB Radio. Today, these people attract others like themselves to CB Radio. That mentality was already in place before the movies were made. However, if Hollywood had used Ham Radio in those movies instead, perhaps these same people would have been attracted to Ham Radio and Ham Radio would have the problems today instead of CB Radio. But ham radio did not have that "outlaw" mentality. And, back then, such activities would have brought down tremendous peer opposition by the rest of the ham community. For example, trying to operate without callsigns on a ham band would get you DFed and reported to FCC. Not so on 27. Also, the complexity and cost of amateur equipment at the time meant a serious investment was needed just to get started. But, as it is, Ham Radio does not offer the same attractions for these people (the "outlaw" image, anonymous operation, and so on). Only because *existing* hams have the *tradition* of not tolerating such behavior. Because of that, most of these people have no interested in Ham Radio. The few who are interested in Ham Radio are attracted for what Ham Radio has to offer, not what CB has to offer. Therefore, these people are not likely to display the same CB-like behavior in the Ham Radio frequencies. The fact that a good number, perhaps the majority, of today's Ham Operators owned a CB radio sometime in the past (or present) supports this conclusion. Yet in my experience there has been a longstanding problem with the cb "outlaw" culture trying to migrate to amateur radio. In this area, at least, we have had serious problems on VHF/UHF repeaters from newcomers who saw 2 meters as a noise-free version of cb. When their behavior (cussing, failure to ID, refusing to share the repeater, threats to those who disagreed with them, etc.) was challenged by other hams, they said "We did this things on 11 and there's nobody going to stop us from doing them here. We don't care what your stupid rules say, we're gonna have our fun and if you don't like it, go away". (Almost verbatim quote.) The only ace-in-the-hole we had was the ability to shut down the repeater. Even that did not always work because these folks would sometimes guess the codes. Now which is the better deal? My message was an attempt to undermine Bruce's many posts trashing Technicians (he is the one constantly bringing up the CB nonsense), not to make any real comparisons between CB and Ham Radio (or CB'ers and Technicians). You don't really take Bruce seriously, do you, Dwight? I don't. He's just another version of Len. In fact the two of them are, philosophically, exactly the same. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
He's just another version of Len. In fact the two of them are,
philosophically, exactly the same. 73 de Jim, N2EY No im not like Len, len doesnt even have a License, and secondly your assuming everything I say is truthful. Use the correct FACTS before you make a correct statement. |
Dwight Stewart wrote: "N2EY" wrote: Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? I wasn't offering CB as a model. In fact, because of its rather unique history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit, and so on). You're off by a few years. Back in the early 70's, I used a CB in our company trucks, and there were plenty of rulebreakers then. Most every time I had to buy parts from a local, I got to see their overheight towers and linear amps. - Mike KB3EIA and a looong time ago, KBM-8780! 8^) - |
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In article , Mike Coslo writes:
Dwight Stewart wrote: "N2EY" wrote: Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? I wasn't offering CB as a model. In fact, because of its rather unique history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit, and so on). You're off by a few years. Back in the early 70's, I used a CB in our company trucks, and there were plenty of rulebreakers then. Most every time I had to buy parts from a local, I got to see their overheight towers and linear amps. IMDB.com (Internet Movie Data Base) says that "Convoy" and the first "Smokey and the Bandit" came out in 1977-78. Art imitates life. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote:
Those movies came out *after* wholesale disregard for the rules was already very common on 27. (Although I've never been a cb user, I have listened there since the mid-'60s and known many cb users). In the 60's and early 70's, CB was only a minor nuisance, mainly a concern only for the FCC. Most Americans had never even heard of it. By the end of the 70's, the number of CB'ers had increased dramatically and problems (and complaints) were widespread. The only significant thing that happened during that time, to cause such growth, was the Hollywood movies (and television shows) featuring CB. And you could clearly see that influence. By the late 70's, the very first channel most people turned to when they got their new CB home was channel 19 (the truckers' channel). That fact drove truckers crazy. And the only way most people even knew of that channel was those Hollywood movies. But ham radio did not have that "outlaw" mentality. Really? I thought that was pretty obvious. We were talking about "what if," not "what is." And, back then, such activities would have brought down tremendous peer opposition by the rest of the ham community. (snip) You put way too much faith in peer pressure, Jim. Peer pressure would not control thirty to fifty million people (the estimates of CB'ers by the late 70's) if they had decided to ignore the rules. Yet in my experience there has been a longstanding problem with the cb "outlaw" culture trying to migrate to amateur radio. In this area, at least, we have had serious problems on VHF/ UHF repeaters from newcomers who saw 2 meters as a noise-free version of cb. I've traveled to almost a dozen states in the last five years and such behavior is extremely rare on all of the repeaters I've monitored or used. Instead, I've mostly heard polite, friendly, people who seemed to be very serious about their ham radio involvement. Where problems did exist, it was usually blown out of porportion by guys angry about others using "their" repeater for things they didn't like. In one situation, I even heard several guys antagonizing two guys so they could record the results, which they said was going to be sent to the FCC (minus their part in it, I'm sure). The two guys were not doing anything wrong before those guys showed up on that frequency. Because of my experiences, I always wonder about the cause whenever I hear people talking about a "problem" on a local repeater. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
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