In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


I would like to see the tests a little more in depth (note I don't say
harder) with more operation questions. Perhaps even a post-test booklet
with good operating procedures. I really needed this after passing my
general. I had some small HF experience from contesting with the club,
but contesting etiquette and everyday etiquette are two very different
things.

My biggest hope is that we take the time to make a good system, and not

come up with some Byzantine mess.

Mike:

I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.

I'd also look for them to pre-empt future petitions to increase voice
spectrum by the conversion of the current Novice/tech sub-bands to
include that mode. I do not expect the overall licensing requirements
to be made "harder" in any way, since that would only raise objections
from the knuckle-draggers and the subsequent petitions which that
would produce.

The FCC's goal, obviously, is to get as much of the administrative
burden of the ARS licensing system off their backs as possible, so I
look for them to do just that.

73 de Larry, K3LT

I do not expect the overall licensing requirements
to be made "harder" in any way, since that would only raise objections
from the knuckle-draggers and the subsequent petitions which that
would produce.

Theres no Question the License will be easier.The Knuckle draggers would
really cry if the FCC went and made it something where they would actually have
to know something.

In article ,
(WA8ULX) writes:

I do not expect the overall licensing requirements
to be made "harder" in any way, since that would only raise objections
from the knuckle-draggers and the subsequent petitions which that
would produce.

Theres no Question the License will be easier.The Knuckle draggers would
really cry if the FCC went and made it something where they would actually
have to know something.

You mean like knowing how to spell and punctuate, when to capitalize, and the
rules of grammar?

In article , ospam
(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:

I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.

ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

2) FCC has to announce a change and then implement it. To my knowledge, stuff
like license requirement changes almost never is done "effective immediately".
So the day such a change is announced, you'll see a flurry of folks getting
their Techs in anticiaption of a free upgrade to General in a few weeks or
months.

Of course, almost
anything is possible.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , ospam
(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:


I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.


ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

Let's test your premise here, Jim. Would you support a one class system
in which all amateurs that have passed Novice, Tech, General or (of
course) Extra get an "instant upgrade" to Extra?

That of course would be a simple and elegant solution. No more arguing
about anything as far as classes go.

That would certainly cure the falloff in people getting Tech licenses
at the moment. A person would have to be foolish to not take the Tech
class license in order to get General class access after restructuring
as in your example, or full Extra access as in my one class idea.



- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,

(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:


I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.


ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to
General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

Let's test your premise here, Jim. Would you support a one class system

in which all amateurs that have passed Novice, Tech, General or (of
course) Extra get an "instant upgrade" to Extra?

No. In fact, not just "no" but "HELL, NO!!"

That of course would be a simple and elegant solution. No more arguing
about anything as far as classes go.

"All amateurs are equal. Some are more equal than others" (with a tip of the
hat to George Orwell and "Animal Farm".

That would certainly cure the falloff in people getting Tech licenses
at the moment. A person would have to be foolish to not take the Tech
class license in order to get General class access after restructuring
as in your example, or full Extra access as in my one class idea.

Some folks would agree with that system, or one like it. After all, once upon a
time, anyone who could pass the Tech/General written (they were the same test
for 36 years) and the required code test got all privileges. If the code test
is removed, that leaves the General written.

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham *must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Be careful what you ask for.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:


In article ,



(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:



I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.


ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to

General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

Let's test your premise here, Jim. Would you support a one class system


in which all amateurs that have passed Novice, Tech, General or (of
course) Extra get an "instant upgrade" to Extra?


No. In fact, not just "no" but "HELL, NO!!"

Okay, now I know a little more where you stand on this. I wasn't sure if
you were being DA on it or what..... Wait a second... DA means Devil's
Advocate... other interpretations might not be so kind! 8^)


snip

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham *must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham
*must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

73 de Larry, K3LT

Larry Roll K3LT wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham

*must*

know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

And what I'm thinking is that unless it means something again, they
might as well get rid of it. That little sliver of operating frequencies
is not worth it, if increased privileges are the measuring stick.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham
*must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

73 de Larry, K3LT


I've never thought of it that way Larry, but your 100% correct. Just look
at Kim.

Dan/W4NTI