Larry Roll K3LT wrote:

Precisely. On amateur radio, one never knows when one will encounter
something which may make someone think twice about our hobby being
a wholesome and proper activity for a young person. When that happens,
whether or not what was said was "legal" within the letter of the law, the
potential exists for the effect to bring the ARS "...one step closer to
extinction."

73 de Larry, K3LT

Larry, our society has pretty much come to the point that people don't
care what others think of them any more. Foul, vulgar language is used
so much now that it is spoken in homes as if it were accepted language
and the kids pick up on it. I have heard five year olds use words that I
would never dared to speak in front of an adult when I was a youngster.
I have had my mouth washed out with soap (by a teacher at school no
less, would like to see one try that now), for saying much less.

I grew up in a farming community and when around the men, sure a few
cuss words would fly occasionally, especially when the wrench slipped
and a busted knuckle was the result, or over at the local shop where the
farmers gathered as their trucks and tractors were being serviced, a
hell or damn was pretty common, but never in a public place where women
and children were around. There was respect for others then. It isn't
uncommon for me to step into an elevator with my wife and hear others
using very vulgar language with no regards to who is listening and may
be offended by such language. The sad part is, they think it is just
accepted that everyone has lowered themselves to such a common level.

Ever set at the mall and just watch the people pass by? Look at the
sloppy dress, some look like they stepped out of a cartoon. Few have
pride in themselves anymore. And if you really want to see some
sloppyness, go to a ham fest. It is a sad commentary on our society today.

"JJ" wrote:

(snip) I have heard five year olds use words that
I would never dared to speak in front of an adult
when I was a youngster. (snip)


I've heard five year olds use words that I, as an adult, would not say in
front of other adults today. I'm certainly not a prude, but I just don't see
how vulgar language improves communications or one's impression of another.


I have had my mouth washed out with soap (by
a teacher at school no less, would like to see
one try that now), for saying much less.


My mother preferred dishwashing liquid (claimed it was safer than some
hand or body soaps). Once was enough for me, but my brother went on a foul
language spree one summer and "got the treatment" probably five or six
times. My sister got it when she was about sixteen or seventeen.


(snip) It isn't uncommon for me to step into an
elevator with my wife and hear others using very
vulgar language with no regards to who is
listening and may be offended by such language.
(snip)


There was a guy and his wife (girlfriend or whatever) in line behind us at
Office Max the other day. I've never heard so much foul language in such a
short amount of time (seemed like every second or third word out of his
mouth). And I'm talking nasty stuff - women's body parts, his wife's body
parts, body parts in general, negative words for men and women, and so on. I
finally asked him to keep his voice down. When that didn't work, I asked him
not to use such language. When I finally got the register, he started it
again. In anger (and since there was nobody else in line), I had the casher
go with me to search for printer ink behind another counter and made sure we
had a nice little conversation. We even talked about his language. When he
finally went to another line, we returned to the register to complete my
purchase. Less than ten seconds later, the guy rushed towards the register
to get behind us again. However, the casher saw him coming and put the
register closed sign up before he got there. As he walked away, and I was
picking up my bag to leave, she smiled real big and told us to have a nice
day. This was one of the few times I truly believed a casher meant those
words when said.


And if you really want to see some sloppyness,
go to a ham fest. (snip)


I can accept a certain level of sloppyness at a ham fest or other casual
event (as opposed to the mall, restaurant, work, or other such places). Or
perhaps I should say that I dress more sloppily at a ham fest than I would
at work or so forth. I just don't really see an overwhelming reason to dress
up for a ham fest.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
ink.net...
"JJ" wrote:

(snip) I have heard five year olds use words that
I would never dared to speak in front of an adult
when I was a youngster. (snip)

I've heard five year olds use words that I, as an adult, would not say
in
front of other adults today. I'm certainly not a prude, but I just don't
see
how vulgar language improves communications or one's impression of
another.

I have had my mouth washed out with soap (by
a teacher at school no less, would like to see
one try that now), for saying much less.

My mother preferred dishwashing liquid (claimed it was safer than some
hand or body soaps). Once was enough for me, but my brother went on a foul
language spree one summer and "got the treatment" probably five or six
times. My sister got it when she was about sixteen or seventeen.

(snip) It isn't uncommon for me to step into an
elevator with my wife and hear others using very
vulgar language with no regards to who is
listening and may be offended by such language.
(snip)

There was a guy and his wife (girlfriend or whatever) in line behind us
at
Office Max the other day. I've never heard so much foul language in such a
short amount of time (seemed like every second or third word out of his
mouth). And I'm talking nasty stuff - women's body parts, his wife's body
parts, body parts in general, negative words for men and women, and so on.
I
finally asked him to keep his voice down. When that didn't work, I asked
him
not to use such language. When I finally got the register, he started it
again. In anger (and since there was nobody else in line), I had the
casher
go with me to search for printer ink behind another counter and made sure
we
had a nice little conversation. We even talked about his language. When he
finally went to another line, we returned to the register to complete my
purchase. Less than ten seconds later, the guy rushed towards the register
to get behind us again. However, the casher saw him coming and put the
register closed sign up before he got there. As he walked away, and I was
picking up my bag to leave, she smiled real big and told us to have a nice
day. This was one of the few times I truly believed a casher meant those
words when said.


And if you really want to see some sloppyness,
go to a ham fest. (snip)


I can accept a certain level of sloppyness at a ham fest or other casual
event (as opposed to the mall, restaurant, work, or other such places). Or
perhaps I should say that I dress more sloppily at a ham fest than I would
at work or so forth. I just don't really see an overwhelming reason to
dress
up for a ham fest.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


I would have asked to visit with the Shift Manager and would have explained
the situation to him/her and asked what the store intended to do about it.
*If* the conversation had been loud enough for the clerk to make a decision
on your complaint, then it was loud enough for her to witness to the Shift
Manager. What would I expect as a consumer? I would expect the store to
ask the people to leave if they persist in offensive behavior in public.
There are laws against it. We probably have to take some form of personal
responsibility--and we may be too stupid or lazy to do so, I don't know--for
those laws to work but, failing that, my action would have been to place my
products down on the counter and walk out of the store.

*That* is what Jim means by shopping with our wallets. On a small, teeny,
tiny scale, I just had a meeting with that company's BoD. And, more people
need to start having that meeting with the BoD. You call it "local" or
whatever. But that BoD makes investment decisions for its shareholders.
And, whether I am a shareholder or not, if me, and you, and him, and her,
and them, and those people over there, and all of us combined start
affecting the bottom dollar of a company's stock price--then we've also have
a very effective meeting with the BoD.

And, the greatest thing is, you could choose to leave without ever saying a
word to anyone--either way you choose to act; *as long as you leave without
purchase* has the same affect.

Kim W5TIT

"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

(snip) I would have asked to visit with the Shift
Manager and would have explained the situation
to him/her and asked what the store intended to
do about it. *If* the conversation had been loud
enough for the clerk to make a decision on your
complaint, then it was loud enough for her to
witness to the Shift Manager. What would I
expect as a consumer? I would expect the store
to ask the people to leave if they persist in
offensive behavior in public. (snip)


With the possibility of lawsuits, I doubt many stores would be that overt
today. Many of the offensive language laws of the past have been struck down
as unconstitutional (enough that few stores would want to take much of a
chance pushing the issue)


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

(snip) I would have asked to visit with the Shift
Manager and would have explained the situation
to him/her and asked what the store intended to
do about it. *If* the conversation had been loud
enough for the clerk to make a decision on your
complaint, then it was loud enough for her to
witness to the Shift Manager. What would I
expect as a consumer? I would expect the store
to ask the people to leave if they persist in
offensive behavior in public. (snip)


With the possibility of lawsuits, I doubt many stores would be that
overt
today. Many of the offensive language laws of the past have been struck
down
as unconstitutional (enough that few stores would want to take much of a
chance pushing the issue)


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)


You always seem to come up with some reason not to effect change, Dwight.
At the end of the post you have a little bit of above, I even stated that
you could put the items down and leave--without ever saying a thing to
anyone.

How do you feel about doing that? If you totally disagree with how the
people were behaving, say nothing to anyone, and just simply walk out of the
store; then you be sure that you enlighten others as to this way of doing
something in our litigious society today, what do you think the potential is
of making some true changes in our society and in the businesses that we do
business with?

Oh, I forgot...never mind...I'm lying...

Kim W5TIT

"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

(snip) At the end of the post you have a little
bit of above, I even stated that you could put
the items down and leave--without ever saying
a thing to anyone.

(snip) How do you feel about doing that? (snip)


Don't be so defensive, Kim. Most would agree one could simply walk out of
the store. Because of that, there was really nothing much to add to that
part of the conversation. Instead, I added to what you said in another part
of your message, which obviously gave you an opportunity to address that.
After all, if you're going to approach the manager, that is going to be on
his mind.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

(snip) At the end of the post you have a little
bit of above, I even stated that you could put
the items down and leave--without ever saying
a thing to anyone.

(snip) How do you feel about doing that? (snip)


Don't be so defensive, Kim. Most would agree one could simply walk out
of
the store. Because of that, there was really nothing much to add to that
part of the conversation. Instead, I added to what you said in another
part
of your message, which obviously gave you an opportunity to address that.
After all, if you're going to approach the manager, that is going to be on
his mind.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)


Defensive? I don't know where you got that. While the Manager may be
thinking of legality and lawsuit issues, it would not come to a legal issue
by simply approaching a manager about the issue. What that does is give one
the opportunity to "field" what reactions will be at the idea of a consumer
complaining about behaviors of others in a store. If it's determined,
through experience, that we can't do things people-to-people because of fear
of retribution, then there's all opportunity in, as I said, simply lying
down the products you were going to purchase and walking out. One could
even follow-up with a letter or email (anonymous or not) to the corporate
headquarters of the company.

I think I was probably of the thought you were being dismissive of the
*whole* idea simply because of fear of reprimand. Fear of reprimand is some
of what has paralyzed people in this country from demanding the behaviors we
wish to see from others (personal or business). There are ways around fear
of reprimand.

Kim W5TIT

Dwight Stewart wrote:


And if you really want to see some sloppyness,
go to a ham fest. (snip)



I can accept a certain level of sloppyness at a ham fest or other casual
event (as opposed to the mall, restaurant, work, or other such places). Or
perhaps I should say that I dress more sloppily at a ham fest than I would
at work or so forth. I just don't really see an overwhelming reason to dress
up for a ham fest.


Casual is OK, but there is a differenc between casual and sloppy.
Clothes that have obviously been worn for several days and smelly are
sloppy. I have seen a lot of that at ham fest. Seems that to some hams,
the acquiring of a license means they now only have to take a bath once
a month or less.

"JJ" wrote in message
...
Dwight Stewart wrote:


And if you really want to see some sloppyness,
go to a ham fest. (snip)



I can accept a certain level of sloppyness at a ham fest or other
casual
event (as opposed to the mall, restaurant, work, or other such places).
Or
perhaps I should say that I dress more sloppily at a ham fest than I
would
at work or so forth. I just don't really see an overwhelming reason to
dress
up for a ham fest.


Casual is OK, but there is a differenc between casual and sloppy.
Clothes that have obviously been worn for several days and smelly are
sloppy. I have seen a lot of that at ham fest. Seems that to some hams,
the acquiring of a license means they now only have to take a bath once
a month or less.


snicker I don't think "hams" have cornered the market on stinking...

Kim W5TIT

"JJ" wrote:

Casual is OK, but there is a differenc between
casual and sloppy. Clothes that have obviously
been worn for several days and smelly are
sloppy. I have seen a lot of that at ham fest.
Seems that to some hams, the acquiring of a
license means they now only have to take a
bath once a month or less.


I've seen it too, JJ. But, since it's pretty much a personal choice, there
isn't much that can be done except to set a higher standard for ourselves.
In our case (my wife and I), that's easy. We lived in Europe for ten years,
in a country where people tend to dress relatively well in public and keep
their homes and neighborhoods clean. We picked up that habit and now find it
uncomfortable to do anything less. When we first returned, my relatives
constantly complained we were overdressed. That surprised us since we were
wearing the cloths we wore daily in Germany (our nice cloths were still
packed). Many of our friends and family still think we're a little eccentric
(the actual word two of them used) for keeping our home so clean. We've
since started wearing more casual cloths, and are not so rigid on the house
cleaning, but not anywhere near what I see around us. My wife's brother
visited last summer and commented that our house looked like a museum. While
the house was cleaned for the visit, I certainly wouldn't go that far when
describing it.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/